Pseudoscience Item to reveal Fuelweaver tentacle

[reallychina]

Just rage quit another dst map after first trying to telepoof into the atrium from ruins and not seeing them, then killing 4 tentacles and failing to find atrium.

This is just bad. More than 1 real life hour down the drain for nothing.

I dont care if the tentacle reveal item costs 1 green 1 yellow 1 orange 1 thulecite, just make anything to remove this stupid rng

 

If AG can be revealed by a pseudoscience item, FW should too, they belong to the same group. Crab king also has a reveal mechanism

 

If this is not a QOL, idk what is.

[SinancoTheBest]

There are at most 6 tentapillar pairs in a world, corresponding to the colors of moonlenses. Seems you were almost there if you checked 4 wrong pairs. I suggest a little more patience. Seems like it'd be such a waste of an item. It's a one and done mechanic anyway.

[Juny Pear]

Honestly it's probably my least favorite part about doing fuelweaver, finding the right big tentacle to kill is basically just chance (Not to mention it's cryptic as all hell). I definitely think it'd be nice if the correct one could somehow be identified either like how you suggested with an item, or by giving the tentapillar itself some sort of distinguishing trait visually so you can know it's the right one.

It's no surprise most experienced players rather rely on the wonky caves gen to telepoof over than randomly guessing which one it could be.

14 minutes ago, SinancoTheBest said:

Seems like it'd be such a waste of an item. It's a one and done mechanic anyway.

Also about this, I feel so long as the item has some other use besides just locating the right tentacle that it's not a big deal, even if that use is purely visual or something light related (good example would be the astral detector).

[PetulantPansy]

Not a bad idea but I think it should be saved for a new boss or something. It's going to get harder and harder to introduce new items into the game that are useful but not significantly stronger than existing items. 

 

Even if it didn't drop, it's not that bad if you play the game with a team (hence DST). Every person checks 1-2 pairs and they'll find it. Goes without saying but the game is lot more grindy/tedious if 1 person tries to do the work of 3-4 people. 

[Guille6785]

that's the one reason I'm against voidwalking being removed unless they do something about it

I think the shadow atrium should beat faster as you get closer to the right tentacle

[Owlrust]

A shadow-infused big tentacle to indicate which one connects to the atrium would be nice.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

it should have something related to ancients arround it because is suppose to be the entrance the ancient used to such important part of their civilization, is weird that is just a random tentapillar

[Mantispidae]

Even as a 'niche' item I don't mind the concept, because there's nothing forcing you into crafting it if you want to go for the RNG search and for those who'd rather just cut it out all together they now have an option to do that. Certainly fine with them adding other perks to it but overall don't really mind the concept of a convenience item for people. 

That said, some small visual or environment cue might be a nicer adjustment, but I also understand why they might not want to make them just... freely reveal that information rather than keeping the 'search' part.

 

I do like the atrium heartbeat suggestion, as long as it had a character indicator too (like with the tracking device from DS)

[SinancoTheBest]

Isn't the supposed tediousness of finding the correct tentapillar part of the intended design? As the home of the final boss of the "A New Reign" line of DLCs, it's supposed to be unpredictable before trying the tentapillars by yourself. It's supposed to mimic the lenghty quest steps we later saw in the Return of Them like finding lunar island, assembling the lunar altar, getting an irredecent gem, doing pearl's quests for her pearl, fighting crab king's pearl-buffed form, activating archives, getting astral detector blueprints, locating the sanctum pieces, getting them all to lunar island, traveling to moonstorms to help Wagstaff... 

In comparison ANR questline is pretty tame. You locate suspicious marble and fix marble statues, make your own statues, fight the bosses for atrium, locate the ruins and find the labyrnth, kill ancient guardian, locate the tentapillar from max 6 pairs that goes to the heart of the ruins, get 8 skeleton pieces and fight. It is supposed to take time and items lilke thulecite madelion already help you in locating one step, do we really need a repeat of that? Let this step require some exploration as it is supposed to be one of the main pillars of the game.

It's really not a hard task with the right gear anyway. There are many tools, items and methods that are particularly good againt the tentapillars like fugu hutch, thulecite crown, electric darts, gunpowder, slurtle slime, bunnymen, rock lobsters; as well as character perks that excel agains it like bramble husk, abigail, winona's catapults, trusty slingshot, merms to name a few. Beefalo saddles and moonlenses help a lot with exploration portion. I think it all feels balanced and intentional, making the right tentapillar distinct would defeat the purpose.

Do players really want the game to hand them everything? Not have anything to require exploration and challenges? If you want to bypass this part of the game, feel free to use mods like map revealer and wormhole marks or worse take advantage of the glitches the devs have not bothered to fix yet. Should the game immediately supply everyone with all biome locations, suspicious marbles, boss positions to everyone because exploring is tedious?

[Dextops]

2 hours ago, SinancoTheBest said:

Isn't the supposed tediousness of finding the correct tentapillar part of the intended design?

just because something is intended doesn't make exempt from criticism 

[Well-met]

ok but you better give crab king the same treatment

and bass shoals while you're at it

[reallychina]

12 hours ago, Nettalie said:

or by giving the tentapillar itself some sort of distinguishing trait visually so you can know it's the right one.

That wouldn't solve much because finding the pillars is the rng and time consuming part, not going through them

11 hours ago, SinancoTheBest said:

Isn't the supposed tediousness of finding the correct tentapillar part of the intended design? As the home of the final boss of the "A New Reign" line of DLCs, it's supposed to be unpredictable before trying the tentapillars by yourself. It's supposed to mimic the lenghty quest steps we later saw in the Return of Them like finding lunar island, assembling the lunar altar, getting an irredecent gem, doing pearl's quests for her pearl, fighting crab king's pearl-buffed form, activating archives, getting astral detector blueprints, locating the sanctum pieces, getting them all to lunar island, traveling to moonstorms to help Wagstaff... 

In comparison ANR questline is pretty tame. You locate suspicious marble and fix marble statues, make your own statues, fight the bosses for atrium, locate the ruins and find the labyrnth, kill ancient guardian, locate the tentapillar from max 6 pairs that goes to the heart of the ruins, get 8 skeleton pieces and fight. It is supposed to take time and items lilke thulecite madelion already help you in locating one step, do we really need a repeat of that? Let this step require some exploration as it is supposed to be one of the main pillars of the game.

It's really not a hard task with the right gear anyway. There are many tools, items and methods that are particularly good againt the tentapillars like fugu hutch, thulecite crown, electric darts, gunpowder, slurtle slime, bunnymen, rock lobsters; as well as character perks that excel agains it like bramble husk, abigail, winona's catapults, trusty slingshot, merms to name a few. Beefalo saddles and moonlenses help a lot with exploration portion. I think it all feels balanced and intentional, making the right tentapillar distinct would defeat the purpose.

Do players really want the game to hand them everything? Not have anything to require exploration and challenges? If you want to bypass this part of the game, feel free to use mods like map revealer and wormhole marks or worse take advantage of the glitches the devs have not bothered to fix yet. Should the game immediately supply everyone with all biome locations, suspicious marbles, boss positions to everyone because exploring is tedious?

Tedious is one thing, idiotic RNG is another. If i want to play pure RNG, i would play slots or craps or something. Or flip coins.

 

Fighting the pillars is not the issue, FINDING them is, as it is nothing but RNG and they have no pattern whatsoever for generation, unlike many other DS things that have some sort of pattern and you can bend the chance in your favor if you know the mechanics. Finding the right pillar if you're playing DST the first time ever in your life or finding the pillar after playing 1000+ hours is exactly the same chance.

 

It can take you up to 10 days to find it.

 

You went on a senseless rant instead of paying attention to the point.

 

7 hours ago, Well-met said:

ok but you better give crab king the same treatment

 

Crab king has the detector now. At some point it did not and it was beyond stupid to find it, much like pillars and FW

[Juny Pear]

1 hour ago, reallychina said:

That wouldn't solve much because finding the pillars is the rng part, not going through them

I mean if you don't want to explore the entire caves, which in turn would reveal the locations of all the pillars to you anyway, then I guess. But generally I don't think that would be all that bad. It's kinda like exploring the whole forest map, it's pretty important so it's usually a good idea to explore everything anyway.

[SinancoTheBest]

1 hour ago, reallychina said:

It can take you up to 10 days to find it.

So what? Sorry but I don't see a problem with the game expecting you to at least attempt to map out the caves before going to fight the supposed climactic big boss of the caves. Even testing out the right tentapillars help the process as they provide a teleportation network across the caves.

Sorry but from where I stand, your complaint about basic exploration seems like the senseless rant. Perhaps try not exploring while you have the marble suit on next time?

[maradyne]

I like the suggestion about the Shadow Atrium beating faster as you get closer to the right tentapillar. And if you're within the Atrium biome/maze, have it beat faster as you get closer to the Gateway.

Would be one way to nudge players toward figuring out what to do with the item. At least there'd be an indication of where to bring it; it's a start.

[reallychina]

1 hour ago, Nettalie said:

I mean if you don't want to explore the entire caves, which in turn would reveal the locations of all the pillars to you anyway, then I guess. But generally I don't think that would be all that bad. It's kinda like exploring the whole forest map, it's pretty important so it's usually a good idea to explore everything anyway.

There is nothing of interest in the caves besides ruins, toadstool, blue mush biome and and bunny villages to destroy, and you find the blue mush and bunny villages by using cave entrances. So this leaves ruins and toadstool.

Surface biomes have function, cave biomes don't.

 

1 hour ago, SinancoTheBest said:

So what?

So why not make it take 100 days so it can be 10x more exciting right?

 

1 hour ago, SinancoTheBest said:

Even testing out the right tentapillars help the process as they provide a teleportation network across the caves.

Tentapillars regenerate so they're not easy teleportation and caves are useless so this teleport system takes you from nowhere to nowhere.

 

You explore the outerworld because it has various functions, plus outerworld is much faster to explore because it doesn't have 1000 branches. Branches drastically increase surface area and distances. So while caves and outerworld may be of similar area, the actual DISTANCE you have to travel to reveal them is more than tripled.

 

You like pointless game mechanics? Nobody forces you to use the item that would hint to the atrium, you are free to spend an hour mapping pointless randomly generated stuff you will never ever visit after.

[Juny Pear]

Saying all caves biomes are entirely useless feels to me as though the exact same argument could be made about most surface biomes. They only have grass, twigs and berries and those you can already find at spawn.

I really feel like the tentapillars if they were to be changed visually would be one of these things to incentivise exploration of the caves beyond what we currently have, which I full well acknowledge is not much at all, the caves are actually a little stale as most other areas in the game get.

That being said I also think that you're exaggerating quite a lot when saying the caves take so much longer to explore. In my experience they usually take about the same time to explore as the surface biomes, it can just seem as if they take longer to explore because there is way less biome variety within the caves and thus your mind isn't immediately drawn to something right away.
Whenever I explore the caves it takes me around maybe 10 to 15 days on my own, which is pretty much the same amount of time as it takes for me to explore the surface biomes. It just feels more boring to go through the caves because it seems as though half the biomes are really similar to each other.

[ALCRD]

4 hours ago, reallychina said:

There is nothing of interest in the caves besides ruins, toadstool, blue mush biome and and bunny villages to destroy, and you find the blue mush and bunny villages by using cave entrances.

So quite few points of interest in caves actually ^^

[reallychina]

24 minutes ago, Nettalie said:

Saying all caves biomes are entirely useless feels to me as though the exact same argument could be made about most surface biomes. They only have grass, twigs and berries and those you can already find at spawn.

Surface biomes have very specific resources - PK, tumbleweeds, cactus, goats, reeds, moonstone, oasis mandrakes, mctusks, beefalo, hounds, tallbirds and the list goes on and on. Besides ruins/archives/muddy biome, caves have nothing but generic resources than can already be found in the outerwold and can be mass farmed better in the outerworld. A very niche thing would be spores, but that is endgame misery toadstool stuff and not necessary since you can use crown shards or lightbulbs.

 

24 minutes ago, Nettalie said:

I really feel like the tentapillars if they were to be changed visually

Changing them visually does nothing, the problem is finding them and it's like looking for the needle in the haystack. There is no pattern for them.

 

24 minutes ago, Nettalie said:

That being said I also think that you're exaggerating quite a lot when saying the caves take so much longer to explore. In my experience they usually take about the same time to explore as the surface biomes, it can just seem as if they take longer to explore because there is way less biome variety within the caves and thus your mind isn't immediately drawn to something right away.
Whenever I explore the caves it takes me around maybe 10 to 15 days on my own, which is pretty much the same amount of time as it takes for me to explore the surface biomes. It just feels more boring to go through the caves because it seems as though half the biomes are really similar to each other.

 

No, they objectively take longer because of their architecture. You have to return on previous routes both whole biomes and parts of biomes multiple times. Mapping a single biome in outerworld means covering it without doing so. 

4 minutes ago, ALCRD said:

So quite few points of interest in caves actually ^^

2 points is not a lot of points

[Juny Pear]

13 minutes ago, reallychina said:

No, they objectively take longer because of their architecture. You have to return on previous routes both whole biomes and parts of biomes multiple times. Mapping a single biome in outerworld means covering it without doing so.

Well yeah but you also gotta keep in mind that the caves have smaller areas to cover to begin with. That and what I said about it seeming way slower due to it being more boring compared to the overworld. Just saying the word objectively doesn't immediately make something objective, there's more factors to this than just the branches of the caves.

 

18 minutes ago, reallychina said:

Surface biomes have very specific resources - PK, tumbleweeds, cactus, goats, reeds, moonstone, oasis mandrakes, mctusks, beefalo, hounds, tallbirds and the list goes on and on. Besides ruins/archives/muddy biome, caves have nothing but generic resources than can already be found in the outerwold and can be mass farmed better in the outerworld. A very niche thing would be spores, but that is endgame misery toadstool stuff and not necessary since you can use crown shards or lightbulbs.

Caves have rock lobsters, spilagmites which are important for fossil fragments, slurtles, toadstool spawns all over the map, the tentapillars, rabbits, mush forests, the ruins. I know this is less than the surface, but only counting three things for the entirety of the caves I feel is a bit dismissive. Hell, I personally think the caves are lacking compared to surface content currently, but that doesn't mean exploring the caves map is worthless especially for cases like what you described and that's why entirely dismissing my idea even though it could help I think is a bit harsh. Hell I didn't even disagree with your idea of having an item show the location, I just gave an additional one which you immediately shut down.

[reallychina]

6 minutes ago, Nettalie said:

Well yeah but you also gotta keep in mind that the caves have smaller areas to cover to begin with. That and what I said about it seeming way slower due to it being more boring compared to the overworld. Just saying the word objectively doesn't immediately make something objective, there's more factors to this than just the branches of the caves.

 

Caves have rock lobsters, spilagmites which are important for fossil fragments, slurtles, toadstool spawns all over the map, the tentapillars, rabbits, mush forests, the ruins. I know this is less than the surface, but only counting three things for the entirety of the caves I feel is a bit dismissive. Hell, I personally think the caves are lacking compared to surface content currently, but that doesn't mean exploring the caves map is worthless especially for cases like what you described and that's why entirely dismissing my idea even though it could help I think is a bit harsh. Hell I didn't even disagree with your idea of having an item show the location, I just gave an additional one which you immediately shut down.

I think your idea with making them visually distinct is good, it could be corrupt like AG 2nd phase is or something else idk. My Issue was that this wouldn't solve the RNG associated with finding them to begin with.

[Cheggf]

6 hours ago, reallychina said:

Surface biomes have function, cave biomes don't.

Surface biomes are only barely more interesting than cave biomes. Either way this reads less like support for skipping the tentapillars and more like support for a cave overhaul.

[reallychina]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

Surface biomes are only barely more interesting than cave biomes. Either way this reads less like support for skipping the tentapillars and more like support for a cave overhaul.

Cave biomes becoming best ever biomes don't put a dent on the idiotic rng of tentapillars / atrium finding.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Surface biomes are only barely more interesting than cave biomes

when it should be the opposite to justifify going into a more dangerous plsce but what you find are just mushrooms, bats (before the dropping change was useful), spiders, bunnymen which aren't useful if you dont want them as food source/warriors and the only cool biome and really useful biome

even Kevin(i think that dev is kevin, not sure) acknowledge that the caves were lacking in that conference about dont starve desing evolution

[Juny Pear]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

when it should be the opposite to justifify going into a more dangerous plsce but what you find are just mushrooms, bats (before the dropping change was useful), spiders, bunnymen which aren't useful if you dont want them as food source/warriors and the only cool biome and really useful biome

even Kevin(i think that dev is kevin, not sure) acknowledge that the caves were lacking in that conference about dont starve desing evolution

Well but DST is not DS.

I feel like the reason that the majority of the content that was released in the past years was not for the caves is that on some hardware running both a forest and caves shard might be a bit too much.

Then again I don't know if there really was a big reason behind it or if the newer content just incidentally took place primarily on the forest part of worlds.