Forum's Opinion on the Wolfgang Refresh (haha I strike again!).

[SecretPizzaMan]

1 hour ago, QuartzBeam said:

To whoever needs to hear this:

 

The Wolfgang Refresh wasn't your fault.

You need to move on.

Sorry if I didn't get the joke but I have to ask what was the reason behind posting this? 

[Cheggf]

20 minutes ago, SecretPizzaMan said:

Sorry if I didn't get the joke but I have to ask what was the reason behind posting this? 

I think he's saying people care too much about the rework and are taking it too personally, that we should just move on and accept it.

But I'm going to take it personally. Wolfgang was my husband, and they murdered him. Well, not husband, but we were engaged. Well, not engaged, but I was going to propose. Well, not going to propose, in actuality I never met the guy. But that's not important. What is important is that he was my husband and they killed him!

[Dr. Safety]

I hope Klei isn't taking the stance of "Well we gave Wolfgang tons of fun perks on top of his damage, so buffing him now would make him too powerful" because I can't even begin to express how little I care about minor insulation, moving statues a little faster sometimes, and being able to position your boat a half-inch in front of someone else in a boat race. The only perk I actually find useful is his chopping/mining buff which I will gladly do without if it means that Wolfgang's mighty meter isn't so boring to keep full.

[Maxposting]

Maybe make him actually reduce mightiness loss by having heavy items on him?

[Cheggf]

I think mightiness should drain slower. And heavy things like marble armor and piggybacks make it drain slower. And using your arms (fight, chop, mine, smash) restore might. And he gets a 20% speed boost when mighty. And he gains mightiness from dumbbells faster. And he can move while lifting dumbbells. And throwing dumbbells takes less durability off. And his boats can actually go faster. And his 1% chance to instantly finish a task also applies to the FIGHT action. And he has a larger inventory. And he has a damage resistance. And his attacks cleave. And he has dibs on mid lane (or else he will feed). And he has 3.2% more hp scaling. And minions count as allies for his sanity perk. And he does bonus damage against towers.

Then I'll play him again.

[Mike23Ua]

Klei said they’ve moved on for the time being but moving on doesn’t mean they won’t circle back around later to add/change things.

We as consumers have no idea what they as developers have planned for the future of their game, for all we know they could have plans to boost him with Maxwells rework, completely overhaul A.I. & combat mechanics, Add new content to the game that directly benefits/hinders characters in certain aspects similar to how the Moonstorm is probably now Woodie’s worst nightmare.

We simply just don’t know the size & scope of changes Klei has planned but if they are happy with where the character sits right now: then it is safe to say that he’s “in the spot they want him to be in at this time to match the rest of their content they have planned.”

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I think mightiness should drain slower. And heavy things like marble armor and piggybacks make it drain slower. And using your arms (fight, chop, mine, smash) restore might. And he gets a 20% speed boost when mighty. And he gains mightiness from dumbbells faster. And he can move while lifting dumbbells. And throwing dumbbells takes less durability off. And his boats can actually go faster. And his 1% chance to instantly finish a task also applies to the FIGHT action. And he has a larger inventory. And he has a damage resistance. And his attacks cleave. And he has dibs on mid lane (or else he will feed). And he has 3.2% more hp scaling. And minions count as allies for his sanity perk. And he does bonus damage against towers.

Then I'll play him again.

wont be enough

[abrocator]

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

We as consumers have no idea what they as developers have planned for the future of their game, for all we know they could have plans to boost him with Maxwells rework, completely overhaul A.I. & combat mechanics, Add new content to the game that directly benefits/hinders characters in certain aspects similar to how the Moonstorm is probably now Woodie’s worst nightmare.

Maybe the next event will be June of the AFK where you gain perks by standing still.  Wolfgang is gonna be so OP in that event.

[JoeW]

5 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Oh, it was someone's fault alright.

The funniest part is the condescending tone Joe decided to take about how we don't see "the big picture" when the fix to Wolfgang would just be number changes. Proven true by the dozens of analytical data posts provide by users I'm sure they didn't even read. They're just not willing to budge out of arrogance/ego and have stooped down to making fun of us instead. 

I think they need to take "a step back" and realize why people are truly upset. It's because we were given the false narrative that our voices mattered when it turned out only one voice mattered, Zark's. I don't hold any animosity towards him, having that over a video game would be stupid, but it is a big bummer. 

*Sigh*, I don't know, trust goes both ways, maybe somewhere along the way we failed to trust in Klei? Maybe we made too many back-to-back posts and created too much noise and that's why it was hard to gather any feedback from us. But now we are a bit more collected, so the "we'll give it time" comment they made a while back turning out to be untrue stings all the more. They're gonna wait until the Wolfgang plane crashes and burns which just seem counter productive for no reason when they can squeeze something into the coming QoL patches. 

To me it just seems like refreshes should be taken more seriously over content itself, as that is the window through which content is experienced. That window wasn't perfect but it wasn't the opaque peephole we have now. For some people Wolfgang is the only character they play, as a developer, wouldn't you want the best experience they could have? They're the last people I would expect to not understand why it matters to us. They're the last people I would expect to not understand why it's hard to just "move on" when you've sacrificed so much time defending your stance on a hobby most people would regard as a waste of time.  Most importantly, they're the last people I would expect to not respect all the Wolfgang players that have hundreds of hours into the character, time spent developing and mastering a certain skill set, and have that completely disregarded and be given something subpar in it's stead.  

Just dumbfounding, really. 

As I said before, we have never made it a habit to argue with people over their opinions on the game.

Regarding Zach, he came from within the community as a player and was still hanging out as part of the community. Stuff was said that as a player, it would not have been much of an issue, but as a member of Klei, it carries a bit more weight. He's aware of this now and it won't happen again. 

Now - I should point out. The Wolfgang refresh wasn't designed by one person. The entire team has input and decides together how each update will go out. To be clear, by the time something is released, the majority of the team has already been on the next thing, sometimes for weeks. Generally speaking the team is satisfied with the rework as it stands. HOWEVER - part of our goal is obviously that we want players to be satisfied as well. 

The simple fact of the matter is that it's a small portion of the community that is dissatisfied with the refresh as it stands right now. Not that this means we don't care. But it means it's something we have to consider. 

If the team decides that something should be done about this, we will. This isn't a new thing, we have always done things this way. There is no way the work needed to get through the roadmap we set for ourselves could possibly get done otherwise. And if we fall short on the roadmap, we would have a whole different set of people annoyed at us. So those types of decisions do not come lightly. 

I get that some of you are super frustrated. But, incase you missed my point in the last post - I am attempting to get you to give good, solid, non-inflammatory feedback. Because we can actually USE that. 

I am going to be very direct here, since the last post wasn't clear enough. For now you should assume that we're watching the feedback and determining if it's something we want to change. If we get to a point where we know we won't be changing anything else about Wolfgang, I'll let you know. 

Until then, keep it constructive and on topic. Please. Thanks. 

[Yuuko]

JoeW says a bunch of stuff to try and talk sense and be level headed...

Wolfgang players:

42 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

 dibs on mid lane or feed

 

[Cheggf]

Just now, Shosuko said:

JoeW says a bunch of stuff to try and talk sense and be level headed...

Wolfgang:

 

If Wolfgang is inting with JoeW on his team would JoeW report it as a player or ban him himself?

[Yuuko]

idk, I mean I get it - dev time is money.  I just question whether this refresh started with "how do we nerf Wolfgang" while all the others probably started with "What do people think this character should be, that it isn't?  Or that isn't clear enough?  And how can we bring that part out of them?  What would be really fun for this character to do?"

[LinknAllie]

Good lord people are still heated about the rework?  It wasn't that bad.

[Yuuko]

4 minutes ago, LinknAllie said:

Good lord people are still heated about the rework?  It wasn't that bad.

omg ppl still talking on this forum about a game?  The game came out 8 years ago.  Move on already, it wasn't that bad lol

[Echsrick]

1 minute ago, LinknAllie said:

Good lord people are still heated about the rework?  It wasn't that bad.

people usualy complain if they dont like something, and not talkin is the same as to agree whit someones opinion, but talkin against it will make things clear that they are not ok about a change, litteraly the same for that indi mmo im a closed beta tester for, there was 1 change i hightly dit not want to see in the game, and gave many reasons against that change and other things to actualy make it good, the next day an update happen to replace the bad change whit something everyone from the testing team loves, and guess what? there was not much talk about when people like it exchept the normal things of "oh that looks great, a very good thing, i love that change realy much" and simmilar things like that, only big talk happens when there is something actualy bad, as saying nothing is the same as you not having a proplem whit it, so thats why people keep talkin like that

[LinknAllie]

1 minute ago, Shosuko said:

omg ppl still talking on this forum about a game?  The game came out 8 years ago.  Move on already, it wasn't that bad lol

Someone's passive aggressive.

 

Just now, Dr.Medic said:

people usualy complain if they dont like something, and not talkin is the same as to agree whit someones opinion, but talkin against it will make things clear that they are not ok about a change, litteraly the same for that indi mmo im a closed beta tester for, there was 1 change i hightly dit not want to see in the game, and gave many reasons against that change and other things to actualy make it good, the next day an update happen to replace the bad change whit something everyone from the testing team loves, and guess what? there was not much talk about when people like it exchept the normal things of "oh that looks great, a very good thing, i love that change realy much" and simmilar things like that, only big talk happens when there is something actualy bad, as saying nothing is the same as you not having a proplem whit it, so thats why people keep talkin like that

It's just more of the fact the posts have been spammed similar to what happened when Wanda released.  Just not to that scale.  It's more of I just don't see why people are so heated over it.  It's not like they removed his mighty form or anything.  All they did was give him a meter and a way to increase that meter.  Everything else being small nerfs like the speed boost which was barely noticeable to begin with or small buffs like being able to take down a tree faster when mighty.

[Echsrick]

2 minutes ago, LinknAllie said:

Someone's passive aggressive.

 

It's just more of the fact the posts have been spammed similar to what happened when Wanda released.  Just not to that scale.  It's more of I just don't see why people are so heated over it.  It's not like they removed his mighty form or anything.  All they did was give him a meter and a way to increase that meter.  Everything else being small nerfs like the speed boost which was barely noticeable to begin with or small buffs like being able to take down a tree faster when mighty.

well if you dont have a proplem whit new wolfgang, then thats fine, but there still people out there not havin a great time whit new wolfgang, and so they start to talk alot about it

[luvu2bits]

10 minutes ago, Dr.Medic said:

well if you dont have a proplem whit new wolfgang, then thats fine, but there still people out there not havin a great time whit new wolfgang, and so they start to talk alot about it

I don't think the problem is that people are talking about their dissatisfaction, it's that they're so obnoxious about it and every discussion about it leads to everyone acting like a total prick. Forums have gotten a lot more annoying since the Wolfgang rework

[JoeW]

k, back on topic please. Thanks

[Echsrick]

Just now, 0bit said:

I don't think the problem is that people are talking about their dissatisfaction, it's that they're so obnoxious about it and every discussion about it leads to everyone acting like a total prick. Forums have gotten a lot more annoying since the Wolfgang rework

well then you see that theres an actual proplem yes? i mean, this all would have not happen if everyone would agree on something, but the thing is, not everyone is on one side, so there is a proplem hapening

[Yuuko]

26 minutes ago, 0bit said:

I don't think the problem is that people are talking about their dissatisfaction, it's that they're so obnoxious about it and every discussion about it leads to everyone acting like a total prick. Forums have gotten a lot more annoying since the Wolfgang rework

There are people who are passionate about their characters, and seeing them changed is a big deal.  For a lot of the cast this has been wins across the board, even when not perfectly executed.  For Wolfgang it was nerfs.  I think you couldn't expect them to *not* get worked up about it.  A lot of the flames wouldn't happen if trolls didn't bait with comments belittling and insulting them.

49 minutes ago, LinknAllie said:

Good lord people are still heated about the rework?  It wasn't that bad.

39 minutes ago, LinknAllie said:

Someone's passive aggressive.

[luvu2bits]

7 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

There are people who are passionate about their characters, and seeing them changed is a big deal.  For a lot of the cast this has been wins across the board, even when not perfectly executed.  For Wolfgang it was nerfs.  I think you couldn't expect them to *not* get worked up about it.  A lot of the flames wouldn't happen if trolls didn't bait with comments belittling and insulting them.

I don't want to keep going with this, since at this point I'm contributing to the problem, so I'll make this last response

I understand being passionate about the character yeah? I would be upset too. I just think everyone's been really toxic and immature about the whole thing. It's really disappointing seeing a place that's normally pretty chill and well-spoken devolve to being so... not. That includes people who are pro-rework

Acting like this will only make it less likely that your suggestions will be viewed on an equal playing field because it'll just come off as whining rather than actual criticism. That's just what I think though

[Cloakingsumo198]

Damn y'all trying to get us locked? Won't be long going like this lol. I should mention something about Wolfgang...

 

Wolfgang rework idea #420 

Wolfgang receives the ability to flex and pose on his enemies using up mighty meter to increase both his own sanity and his allies.

It will also remove the fear affect for awhile from pig companions during dusk and boss fights with screeches.

Making companions even slightly more worth it.

And Wolfgang the defacto pig man companion.

Also it could be used to lower mighty levels if Klei ever decides to make wimpy and normal form have some uses.

Spoiler

Please JoeW realize that those crying out for their lost boy aren't the only ones causing ruckus in these threads.

I suppose the only solution is to ignore everyone not here for Wolfgang.

Wolfgang didn't have many players to begin with. Did our outrage have to reach Wendy levels of player count before our thoughts are heard?

How are we going to do that...... Even if all of the Wolfgang players came now they wouldn't even come up to half of Wendy players crying out.

Are all our individual thoughts not valid? 

Is our shared experience falsified here? 

Is our numbers wrong? 

Are we trying to look at WOLFGANG wrong? Where did we go wrong here in these threads I just wanna know......

Where does the forums perspective and klei's collide?

 

5 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Wolfgang was my husband

Spoiler

False. He's my husband.

 

[Mike23Ua]

Personally I’m just enjoying the small tweaks like being able to raise boat masts and anchors faster with sheer might alone..

Wolfgang (from my understanding of him as a Character anyway) was always meant to be the Strongman, but he’s also a total coward & I can provide several Klei official vignettes that back this up, he is a Big.. but loveable guy, scared of Tiny little mouse.

He over exaggerates his strength (no one is mighty enough to lift a baby elephant) but he also isn’t a “complete” fraud, the dude was legit pretty buff and lifting real weights.

However, he was lured into the constant with promises of supernatural levels of strength.. so in the constant: He really does feel Mightiest.

Technically speaking Wolfgang has 3 forms Wimpy/Average/Mighty.

Each of those 3 forms should be capable of different feats, as an example Average Wolfgang should be able throw dumbells, why this is locked behind being Mighty I haven’t a clue.. only his Wimpy form shouldn’t be able to Yeet Dumbells- Because Wolfgang is strong, he can lift heavy things.. but he isn’t Supernatural strong.. until boosted by Maxwell as seen in his animated short.

I would like to see more fun little things to do while being Average/Mighty that benefits & plays into his personality as an example the strongman who can use sheer strength to pull up masts and sails faster should also be capable of snatching Grass tufts out the ground without needing a shovel to do it.

and for the love of god.. you guys should stop bickering & give the devs useful feedback. Please? <3

[Yuuko]

46 minutes ago, 0bit said:

Acting like this will only make it less likely that your suggestions will be viewed on an equal playing field because it'll just come off as whining rather than actual criticism. That's just what I think though

 

40 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

and for the love of god.. you guys should stop bickering & give the devs useful feedback. Please? <3

There has been TONS of useful, level headed pitches to correct Wolfgang dating back to the beta, and to his original launch notice.  These even include keeping his speed nerf and lifting weights, even though those are major pain points.  Don't act like this has all been some dump-on-klei and flame war.  Plenty of useful feedback has been given this entire time.

Fact is people have a lot of things to say to each other, and this is a forum so ppl gonna say it.  If I've said what I think would work for Wolfgang, am I supposed to repeat it non-stop when there are other things to talk about?  Am I supposed to let the thread fall 20 pages deep so it seems like no one cares?  No, and no.

PS:

And this is in NO WAY a complete list, just the first few topics in the beta branch all posted early December.