Forum's Opinion on the Wolfgang Refresh (haha I strike again!).

[Owlrust]

Geez, I wish Warly and Winona got this much demand to be tweaked; poor things are just swap characters now. Hopefully with the upcoming patch, this whole Wolfgang business can finally be put to rest.

[Cheggf]

1 minute ago, Owlrus said:

Geez, I wish Warly and Winona got this much demand to be tweaked; poor things are just swap characters now. Hopefully with the upcoming patch, this whole Wolfgang business can finally be put to rest.

Warly is very fun to play and Winona was never fun. Wolfgang was fun but then they made him no longer fun.

[Hornete]

11 minutes ago, Owlrus said:

Geez, I wish Warly and Winona got this much demand to be tweaked;

Walter too... 

[EssZee]

15 minutes ago, Owlrus said:

Geez, I wish Warly and Winona got this much demand to be tweaked; poor things are just swap characters now. Hopefully with the upcoming patch, this whole Wolfgang business can finally be put to rest.

let's add Wurt to the list

[Koomin]

15 minutes ago, Owlrus said:

Geez, I wish Warly and Winona got this much demand to be tweaked; poor things are just swap characters now. Hopefully with the upcoming patch, this whole Wolfgang business can finally be put to rest.

Yea tbh the fact that people that acted like 5 year olds and literally insulted the devs for weeks are getting rewarded with time that could have been used to fix characters like that that have had problems for years with a patient and friendly playerbase is honestly really sad.  

I don't really know what to say except that this process has made me really disappointed in this forum that I recently joined.

[Yuuko]

43 minutes ago, Owlrus said:

Geez, I wish Warly and Winona got this much demand to be tweaked; poor things are just swap characters now. Hopefully with the upcoming patch, this whole Wolfgang business can finally be put to rest.

tbh - I think Warly does what he's supposed to do.  idk that I'd ask for any changes in ernest.  I've been playing him lately and having a blast both solo and in a group.  He's a very demanding character, but that isn't bad because everything he demands from you is actually playing the game - which is a stark contrast to Wolfgang demanding you lift weights all the time.

Winona could really use a tweak, and I've said so every time she is brought up.  People play Wilson a LOT, no reason she can't be played if there wasn't a problem with her.  I really enjoy her attitude, and skins, and have played her quite a bit.  Her problem is mostly (imo) that her early game sucks a lot, and you won't get any pay off for a while.  If they changed her penalty to be something less tedious, and gave her some things to do early game (like a thumper that summons depth worms but rewards you with auto-farmed rocks if you protect it) then she'd get a lot more play.

imo Wurt - I think the problems ppl face with wurt are a bit over hyped...  Yes, merm followers are bad b/c they can unload and get lost.  This is 100% a bug that Klei should fix.  The king could use some tuning to help him bit a bit more of a lasting character.  Actually this is similar in vein to my concern with Wolfgang - The very concept that its better to binge / purge mighty rather than maintain it fails to align with a strongman attitude of continued effort for big gains.  Similarly it breaks the theme of crowning a merm king if you're most efficient game play is to squeeze in a quick boss fight before you let him die.  For all of the kelp and seeds he tosses you, you'd think he could feed himself lol.  I'm not sure what should change on merm king, but something should definitely change to make keeping him around the more efficient game plan.  Outside of that I think rwys gardening massively offset her dietary restriction.  She's the one I pick when I want to go boating early b/c she can just eat kelp all day.  Set up a small farm base and get potato / tomato / etc growing and she's pretty much set for life lol

I comment and support these whenever they're brought up.  Wolfgang just had more staying power b/c of proximity to his refresh.  It took a while for ppl to recognize the bugs with wurt, or the pick n swap problem with Winona.

[Guille6785]

2 hours ago, Well-met said:

the evidence only becomes obvious when you learn dst modding and the proceedings of the lua scripts

funny cause old wolf's script had a line that specifically disabled his speed boost only when on a beefalo which essentially translates to "he's supposed to get a speed boost when not on a beefalo"

[Cloakingsumo198]

2 hours ago, Owlrus said:

Geez, I wish Warly and Winona got this much demand to be tweaked; poor things are just swap characters now. Hopefully with the upcoming patch, this whole Wolfgang business can finally be put to rest.

 

2 hours ago, Hornete said:

Walter too... 

Sounds like it's time to start.

Spoiler

Ha ha... Just kidding..... Unless?

I dunno it's kind of up to the people to voice their opinions. 

If you don't say what you're thinking nothing will ever change......

Walter, Winona and wurt were new character that people had to adjust to and test their limits.  They've been out not even for half the time Wolfgang has been.

New slates that needed time to be figured out and connections to be formed

For Wolfgang his player count may be on the smaller side but there has been plenty of time to get attached and learn EVERYTHING about him.

Perfecting how to play him, learning where he excels and fails, his pitfalls, and limits.  

There is passion there and it hasn't just be an emotional outrage for the character but outrage on direction and gameplay changes.

You could also account that these players didn't want to end up just like "these" examples listed

Especially since refreshes have been hope to "breathe" life into characters and hope was quickly lost without any feedback so it just became a loop of negativity.

Remember, Wolfgang's refresh was only 2 months ago it's still fresh in our minds even more so cause we have never shut up 

Although Wurt, Winona and Walter still get some attention on the forums it hasn't been a flood to seem as noticable.

I like warly actually he's hard and fun, wish he had more though still.

I look forward to seeing more ideas and feedback from all these characters players.  Since I'm not as familiar with any of them I can't provide the support to them as I have here.

SO I URGE YOU MY FELLOW FORUMITES.

RISE... RISE..... RISE UP AND VOICE YOUR THOUGHTS.

THERE IS NO HARM IN MAKING A THREAD, NO HARM IN POSTING.

Maybe eventually someone will strike gold in the mess.

The forums are actually a nice place to discuss once you weed out the ones not trying.

[SecretPizzaMan]

11 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

 

Sounds like it's time to start.

  Hide contents

Ha ha... Just kidding..... Unless?

 

We should. But maybe not now since tht would be pushing our luck.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Owlrus said:

Geez, I wish Warly and Winona got this much demand to be tweaked; poor things are just swap characters now. Hopefully with the upcoming patch, this whole Wolfgang business can finally be put to rest.

I’ve seen Wormwood, Wurt, and Webber get QoL updates outside of their own rework/introduction time frames, and honestly? I would PREFER it if Klei continued to tweak characters in this way.

If a content update they add can Benefit/Hinder a particular character I absolutely LOVE the idea that we have this huge cast of playable characters who continue to become more and more unique and special in their own rights with each content update, And the Wendy Main in me would love to see Wendy get more interactions with Supernatural Content, perhaps even some angry spirits that are refusing to pass on to the other side due to unfinished business, or that they haven’t come to terms with being dead, I mean I picture this little girl who is capable of being able to see and communicate with ghosts.. to also be like Superman: As in.. Superman hears the cries of everyone in the world, (this is also what drives him to insanity and becoming evil in several Superman comics, movies etc)

So it just makes sense that if Wendy hears endless suffering it’s going to absolutely tank her own Sanity.

Im only using Wendy as my example because I main her most out of every playable character but aside from Wendy: Each playable character has a “niche” a “role” they fit into like take Wormwood as an example, Sure he has his currently mostly useless “plants are nice to him” perk.. so when/if Klei ever adds plants to the game (Like they already have with SeaWeeds) Wormwood won’t be attacked by these plants.

HOWEVER Wormwood is also a plant himself, so.. other plants will expect him to know what they need to nourish and grow.. and if he doesn’t provide for them.. well then let’s just say “plants are nice to him” might only apply to when he is appeasing them.

And by the way yes- Little Shop of Horrors WAS one of my favorite horror comedy’s growing up.

The point I’m trying to make that hopefully Klei is taking into consideration: is that each content update they add to the game if it COULD Benefit or Hinder character X, then they SHOULD update Character X to be impacted by it. 

Wurt is another really good example, if Klei adds a new biome with a new type of merm Wurt could benefit from that such as maybe the FisherMerms from Shipwrecked, these could Fish.. but since Wurt is a Vegetarian maybe they only fish for the sport of it or to collect for pets in a aquarium or something, but hiring fishermerms would allow Wurt to passively get Sea fish, to trade to her King, or maybe the fisher Merms will automatically take the fish to the king..

Whatever- Point is if it can benefit/hinder character X then they should to help further make gameplay as each character even more unique & special.

While I have no immediate ideas off hand for future content to benefit/hinder Wolfgang..

I’m pretty sure Klei is already brainstorming ideas in their offices. 

Im just glad that they finally announced they will tune him but don’t know when so don’t expect any ETA on that.

Edit: Oh I almost forgot to mention: Warly too.. his food dishes now benefit hired mobs.. Pigmen, Bunnymen, Rocklobster, Beefalo, Etc..

[Luca_Chan]

Sorry if my English not good >~<.. 

Like as Wolfgang main in survival (i have ~3-4000 hours played him, from the first time i played DS/DST?), honest i don’t like this rework. It ruin my super cute Wolfgang and even make me dont want to play DST anymore. (yeah i just go to Terraria or DS after try Wolf rework xD)
So.. Can I give some ideal…? >_<

 

※ Wimpy: (when hunger 0-100)

Hunger: reduces Hunger loss by 25%.
Sanity: Normal (+4/min if teammate here)
Health: 100
Speed: +25%
- 1.5x damage
+ 1.25x damage taken
Need more time to work (like chop, mine..)
=> Good for run and sanity/hunger but bad for battle

 

※ Regular: (when hunger 100-200)

Hunger: normal
Sanity: -1.25x (Normal if teammate here)
Health: 200
Speed: Normal
- Normal damage
- Normal damage taken
Normal work
=>  Just like Wilson?

 

※ Might: (when hunger 200-300)

Hunger: - 1.5x
Sanity: -2x (-1.5x if teammate here and +4/min for teammate because make they feel safe)
Health: 300
Speed: Normal (I thinking about -25% speed but because i'm tanker, it ok. But maybe other people love hit and run, -25% speed will make they dont want to play. So normal is better) 
+ 2x damage no change
- 1.25x damage taken
5% chance done work
Carry heavy items faster
=> Super good for battle but bad for hunger/sanity

 

Delete Mighty Gym plz bescause that make Wolfgang feel bored
Keep Dumbbells but not for Might only. 
Use stone Dumbbells make hunger be 100 (for Wimpy)
Use gold Dumbbells make hunger be 200 (for Regular)
Use gem Dumbbells make hunger be 300 (for Might)
Dumbbells like foods but dont care about logic plz xD (btw i think nobody use gold and gem Dumbbells because food to much in this game xD)

This is all what i want to talk. 

 

Have a nice day, everybody /\(>w<)
 

[HowlVoid]

So I guess we party guys?????

Wolfgang is getting another look over!

People said it was impossible but we did it!

"Don't let your dreams just be dreams"

-Shea Lebuff (Wolfgang)

[Diim4iik]

13 hours ago, JoeW said:

As I said before, we have never made it a habit to argue with people over their opinions on the game.

Regarding Zach, he came from within the community as a player and was still hanging out as part of the community. Stuff was said that as a player, it would not have been much of an issue, but as a member of Klei, it carries a bit more weight. He's aware of this now and it won't happen again. 

Now - I should point out. The Wolfgang refresh wasn't designed by one person. The entire team has input and decides together how each update will go out. To be clear, by the time something is released, the majority of the team has already been on the next thing, sometimes for weeks. Generally speaking the team is satisfied with the rework as it stands. HOWEVER - part of our goal is obviously that we want players to be satisfied as well. 

The simple fact of the matter is that it's a small portion of the community that is dissatisfied with the refresh as it stands right now. Not that this means we don't care. But it means it's something we have to consider. 

If the team decides that something should be done about this, we will. This isn't a new thing, we have always done things this way. There is no way the work needed to get through the roadmap we set for ourselves could possibly get done otherwise. And if we fall short on the roadmap, we would have a whole different set of people annoyed at us. So those types of decisions do not come lightly. 

I get that some of you are super frustrated. But, incase you missed my point in the last post - I am attempting to get you to give good, solid, non-inflammatory feedback. Because we can actually USE that. 

I am going to be very direct here, since the last post wasn't clear enough. For now you should assume that we're watching the feedback and determining if it's something we want to change. If we get to a point where we know we won't be changing anything else about Wolfgang, I'll let you know. 

Until then, keep it constructive and on topic. Please. Thanks. 

Hello everyone, I'm a Russian DST streamer, I've been playing DST since 2017, I went through a lot of updates, and I would like to convey my thoughts on this hero to you. I have been streaming actively since 2021, I have seen a lot during this time, and I want to say on my own behalf, I played this character for more than two years, at the beginning of the game it was a very cool hero, because without problems it was possible to rush bosses in less than 150 days, the speed that this hero had was simply amazing, I could easily kill bosses without damage to the hero. Yes, there were people who said he could only speak wolf, but when I sat on other heroes and did almost the same thing, the questions disappeared. Maybe for someone this nerf turned out to be useful, but for me it is not. The speed that the character had no more, it makes no sense to play it anymore when I can sit on a wanda and deal even more damage, or sit on a robot and there will be speed from charges. And those people who write, the current Wolf imba, they simply could not get into it, at a time when he was one of the best heroes at the initial stage, this is no more, I was waiting for an update, I knew that there would be a rocking chair, but speed. I no longer play this hero, he is dead to me and to many others. There are people who write to me, download the mod for the old wolf and play, but I don’t use mods that change the gameplay. Many will agree with me, and someone will throw tomatoes, but this is my point of view. Thanks for understanding!

[abrocator]

15 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Im only using Wendy as my example because I main her most out of every playable character

So you’re saying that you main her?

[Mysterious box]

19 hours ago, Shosuko said:

imo Wurt - I think the problems ppl face with wurt are a bit over hyped...  Yes, merm followers are bad b/c they can unload and get lost.  This is 100% a bug that Klei should fix.  The king could use some tuning to help him bit a bit more of a lasting character.  Actually this is similar in vein to my concern with Wolfgang - The very concept that its better to binge / purge mighty rather than maintain it fails to align with a strongman attitude of continued effort for big gains.  Similarly it breaks the theme of crowning a merm king if you're most efficient game play is to squeeze in a quick boss fight before you let him die.  For all of the kelp and seeds he tosses you, you'd think he could feed himself lol.  I'm not sure what should change on merm king, but something should definitely change to make keeping him around the more efficient game plan.

You sir confuse me you explained every problem with Wurt and said it needed fixing but also said the problems caused by this is overhyped...

19 hours ago, EssZee said:

let's add Wurt to the list

Let's be real Wurt probably got the most rage threads of any character even Wolfgang doesn't come close.

[EssZee]

14 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

 

Let's be real Wurt probably got the most rage threads of any character even Wolfgang doesn't come close.

wrong way around. show me a thread in which enough people complained so viciously that said thread spanned 14 pages and had to get a dev to step in.

you're in that thread. right now.

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, EssZee said:

wrong way around. show me a thread in which enough people complained so viciously that said thread spanned 14 pages and had to get a dev to step in.

you're in that thread. right now.

I don’t care.. Wurts a paid DLC Character, Wolfgang’s Free.

End of Arguement.

[Mysterious box]

12 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I don’t care.. Wurts a paid DLC Character, Wolfgang’s Free.

End of Arguement.

Uh oh you said the thing...

19 minutes ago, EssZee said:

wrong way around. show me a thread in which enough people complained so viciously that said thread spanned 14 pages and had to get a dev to step in.

you're in that thread. right now.

People have complained a ton about Wurt for years spanning multiple pages and invading other threads as far as I know it hasn't broken 14 pages in a single thread but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

You sir confuse me you explained every problem with Wurt and said it needed fixing but also said the problems caused by this is overhyped...

Let's be real Wurt probably got the most rage threads of any character even Wolfgang doesn't come close.

I think they are overhyped because when I play Wurt I don't feel like they hold me back.  Certainly they get in the way of larger ambitions like amassing a merm army, but that isn't exactly a requirement of her kit...  I can use the merms that start in the swamp and utilize their work efficiency to get plenty of trees / living logs.  RWYS gardening makes her diet a breeze.  Nothing about her demands you raise a merm king and amass a merm army, and if I do I just build my army where I intend to use it and don't run into issues with them unloading.  The merm king is pretty much a waste, and its not something I need 100% uptime on.  Most of my Wurt games I don't even make him b/c its not like she's bad without the stat boost.  If I'm not dying with her base values, why would I care if they get increased?  Its not like she's getting a damage boost or anything. (true I don't do much follower combat)

The difference with Wolfgang is that his new kit impacts how he plays on a fundamental level.  I have played a decent amount of Wolfgang with his refresh and have not yet felt like I was even able to comfortably play the game...  The problems with new Wolfgang are readily apparent and ever present in his game play.

58 minutes ago, EssZee said:

wrong way around. show me a thread in which enough people complained so viciously that said thread spanned 14 pages and had to get a dev to step in.

you're in that thread. right now.

idk, Wurt has some die hard fans who've stated their piece several times.  There are things in the game that don't work right for her that really hold back her greater ambitions.  Its sad if you want to play Wurt like an anti-pig tyrant but then your king dies b/c he's too dumb to even feed himself...  And even when you do build him the payoff isn't that great, and his rewards are trash lol

I really think its just proximity to Wolfgang's refresh, problems interfering with the core game loop, and that Wurt has a smaller playerbase that makes this spam any different.

[Mysterious box]

28 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

think they are overhyped because when I play Wurt I don't feel like they hold me back.  Certainly they get in the way of larger ambitions like amassing a merm army, but that isn't exactly a requirement of her kit...  I can use the merms that start in the swamp and utilize their work efficiency to get plenty of trees / living logs.  RWYS gardening makes her diet a breeze.  Nothing about her demands you raise a merm king and amass a merm army, and if I do I just build my army where I intend to use it and don't run into issues with them unloading.  The merm king is pretty much a waste, and its not something I need 100% uptime on.  Most of my Wurt games I don't even make him b/c its not like she's bad without the stat boost.  If I'm not dying with her base values, why would I care if they get increased?  Its not like she's getting a damage boost or anything. (true I don't do much follower combat)

But that just means her problem is ignorable by side stepping it since she doesn't "need" her perks which is true but that means she's fundamentally pointless what's the point of having followers who do stay with you day and night if you have to risk them becoming lost ones it may not be the popular opinion but at that point why not just use pigs and bunnymen while being able to use another character's perk in conjunction while it may not be true of everyone I'm willing to bet the biggest issue concerning Wurt for people who are dissatisfied with her is that her perks are more trouble than their worth considering your committing to that specific character yes her perks are ignorable but if your ignoring the main aspects of them because they don't work right outside of liking the design and roleplaying what's even the point? To summarize yes Wurt works just fine but I don't play Wurt just to play Wurt I play her to use her mechanics.

[Yuuko]

20 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

But that just means her problem is ignorable by side stepping it since she doesn't "need" her perks which is true but that means she's fundamentally pointless what's the point of having followers who do stay with you day and night if you have to risk them becoming lost ones it may not be the popular opinion but at that point why not just use pigs and bunnymen while being able to use another character's perk in conjunction while it may not be true of everyone I'm willing to bet the biggest issue concerning Wurt for people who are dissatisfied with her is that her perks are more trouble than their worth considering your committing to that specific character yes her perks are ignorable but if your ignoring the main aspects of them because they don't work right outside of liking the design and roleplaying what's even the point? To summarize yes Wurt works just fine but I don't play Wurt just to play Wurt I play her to use her mechanics.

First off - I am NOT telling you these bugs aren't real but I AM telling you they don't make her unplayable.  Its only the highest tier of effort / investment where she falls short, and honestly this game has a lot of traps where its not worth the effort so I'm not really surprised.

For me - I like Wurt b/c she can eat kelp raw w/o downside so its easy for early boating.  She only needs a farm to cover her diet.  The stats on farm crops are amazing even without focusing on durians / pumpkins so she has a pretty good life.  Unlike pigs, the merms don't freak out in the evening / night so they can work for their duration.  They're also more efficient workers, and more capable fighters.  When a tree guard spawns pigs will almost certainly die, and even if they don't you lose a pretty big chunk of their work time dealing with the tree guards.  Merms are more likely to live through the fight, and get back to work when they're done.  Carrying fishes is pretty fun too when you catch the sea bream and sunfish.  These make her seasonal adaptations different enough, and more fun that she feels unique.

I don't bother with followers for bee queen or other fights with any other character, and don't feel like I must bring some merm army to them as Wurt.

I wouldn't say I "side-step" anything b/c I'm not doing anything special to work around these or bypass them.  I just don't do them, and her kit feels cool enough as is.  Obviously a lot of people want the merm king and florts to be better, but it wouldn't change my games at all.  I think Wurt / merms are getting sold short b/c ppl run into a bug where they unload or put all the effort into building merm king even knowing its a total trap, and then pretend her whole kit is garbage b/c of these few things that really aren't needed.

Again - this is a totally different situation from Wolfgang who's core game loop is effected by his mighty meter and working out no matter how you want to play him.

[Astraia]

I HATE IT WAS HONESTLY ONE OF THE WORST REWORKS EVER

[SecretPizzaMan]

12 minutes ago, NightfallsCurse said:

I HATE IT WAS HONESTLY ONE OF THE WORST REWORKS EVER

Was that like sarcasm? Or irony? Cause like while I dislike the Wolfgang rework I wouldn't say I hate it. I am asking because you don't seem like the type of person to write that so maybe it is a joke.

[Astraia]

2 minutes ago, SecretPizzaMan said:

Was that like sarcasm? Or irony? Cause like while I dislike the Wolfgang rework I wouldn't say I hate it. I am asking because you don't seem like the type of person to write that so maybe it is a joke.

It was sarcasm, i only dislike it, nothing more or less

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

First off - I am NOT telling you these bugs aren't real

I'm not implying you are don't worry.

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

Its only the highest tier of effort / investment where she falls short, and honestly this game has a lot of traps where its not worth the effort so I'm not really surprised.

 

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

Unlike pigs, the merms don't freak out in the evening / night so they can work for their duration.  They're also more efficient workers, and more capable fighters.

Now here's my issue yea they don't  freak out at night but why does that even matter if their not traveling with you at that point you may as well just chop at daytime with pigs and same goes for combat what good does their combat ability really do you if you avoid keeping them around for fear of accident losing them. I personally can't see merms as a worthy upgrade to pigs if I'm only using them near their homes atleast in my opinion it defeats the purpose of them not sleeping I mean at that point why not just use more pigs to compensate their work speed since meat is much more readily available too. Again I could be wrong but I feel like most people go into Wurt expecting to use her merms as helpers on her travels not as slightly better worker pigs at base.

2 hours ago, Shosuko said:

When a tree guard spawns pigs will almost certainly die, and even if they don't you lose a pretty big chunk of their work time dealing with the tree guards. 

On the flipside you get better drops from their deaths and they'll actively engage monsters without your involvement.

2 hours ago, Shosuko said:

I think Wurt / merms are getting sold short b/c ppl run into a bug where they unload or put all the effort into building merm king even knowing its a total trap, and then pretend her whole kit is garbage b/c of these few things that really aren't needed.

Her merm followers are her main selling point so I wouldn't really call it underselling her the vegi perk and fish perk are just nice little additions. I'm not saying she bad tho.