Something a lot of people need to know

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

21 hours ago, Hornete said:

Hell, i'll be more impressed if someone can learn ocean fishing's mechanics through and through blindly than from a fuelweaver speedrun( I'm not exaggerating, I mean that very genuinely). I love ocean fishing so so very much, but trying to learn it on your own might be one of the most terrible things to go through because of so many hidden mechanics.

Don't forget the T in DST. It's a supposed to be played mainly as a multiplayer game and someone else can teach you how to fish. You don't magically figure out how to fish in real world either. I've played recently on pub where a Wurt player tought that to some Wilson. It was quite wholesome following their chat. But you're right, the ocean fishing mechanics are very complex. Based on the Wilson's chat, he felt very overwhelmed with all those mechanics. I don't think he liked it very much, iirc he was losing his spoons quite often and I think he was complaining about the actual catching process.

That said, I definitely wouldn't mind a book tutorial of what lure you should use for each fish or something like that being sold by Pearl. Maybe keeping your record catches in such a book.

[X-lem]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

-snip-

Ahhh that make sense. Ya I can see console players not bothering with the forums.

What does the console main menu look like? For the PC it always has some moving pictures of what’s been updated. For example during the Malbatross update their was a picture of the Malbatross on the main menu. Does console not have that?

Does the console menu have links to the shorts so they can watch them? Those usually give a decent overview of be new content.

[Mike23Ua]

16 minutes ago, X-lem said:

Ahhh that make sense. Ya I can see console players not bothering with the forums.

What does the console main menu look like? For the PC it always has some moving pictures of what’s been updated. For example during the Malbatross update their was a picture of the Malbatross on the main menu. Does console not have that?

Does the console menu have links to the shorts so they can watch them? Those usually give a decent overview of be new content.

Animation, yes- shorts: No, We don’t even have the very lore driven Character rework shorts in the game.. and that’s something I campaign hard for in a QOL- if you think people not knowing Malbatross is a “thing” is bad…. You should hear the ones that have no idea who/what Charlie is, or for that matter: That the silly little game they saw on Xbox live and thought would be fun even has any lore.

Minecraft has no lore: Why would DST?

Those people start playing DST having no idea that Maxwell was the main villain of the original game, having no idea Wilson choose to forgive Maxwell for capturing him and torturing him trading places with him as prisoner to the nightmare throne: they haven’t gotten a CLUE that Wilson and Maxwell are the former protagonist & antagonist of the franchise.

OR that if they pick to play as Wes they’re intentionally picking the worst (intentionally hardest) character choice in the entire game.

The closest thing they have to in-game lore now is the Compendium.

People who don’t frequent the forums, just don’t have that information- I played this game the other day with a girl who once I showed her some of the stuff I knew: Said “Wow I didn’t know this old game I just saw on sale and decided why not try it was still getting MONTHLY content support from its developers!”

Thats just a rough example of how “out of the loop” console players actually are:

and it frustrates me beyond belief when people expect me to know everything about everything.. I still (without looking it up on Wiki) have no idea how to trigger the Ant-Lion boss fight.

[HowlVoid]

To me these are people who simply aren't going out of their way to reach the end game. They are choosing to play the game casually and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. 

I think it's a little silly to worry about other people missing out on content when they are satisfied with the content they are enjoying. Then if they are wanting to get a little more out of the game there are lots of communities to join and expand via word of mouth. I have expressed multiple times that I think DST and Forums can go hand in hand nicely. To me the uncompromising part is DST is defined by the game's unwillingness to explain how things work. I think sharing experiences, tips, and deaths is a core part of the series.

Another thing I love about DST and the Don't starve series in general is that the game can be played with and without skill and both play styles are supported. This is due to the "open world" nature of the game. You can tackle fuelweaver in the first autumn or you can cheese him with a shootious, you can kill dragonfly with a hambat and nothing else or you can tank her with a marble suit and healing. The decision is up to the player on how much they want to lower the difficulty by investing time into preparation instead.

[X-lem]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

- snip -

Klei really should find a way to better promote their content more for console players then. A quick glance at my data shows that ~1/3 - 1/4 of players are console players. Seems like a large group that is out of the loop on new content. I can understand them not knowing about the monthly content, but they should know about the large content updates.

> No, We don’t even have the very lore driven Character rework shorts in the game..

Ya there really should be a way for console players to view the shorts on their tv. Even a link to the YouTube video would work (I'm assuming console auto has a YouTube app, but maybe I'm wrong there).

[Mike23Ua]

4 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

To me these are people who simply aren't going out of their way to reach the end game.

I wish someone would define to me what “End-Game” even means in a open world Sandbox game.

In Batman Arkham Knight “End-Game” was when you locked up every bad guy, cleared all the streets of those dumb annoying tanks & quite literally had nothing left to do because the world was empty with nothing left to do- That’s called Definitive END GAME.. what’s the point in playing any further unless you just like driving Batmobiles around in a realistic Gotham that’s even more empty and void of life then Lego Batman 2 (in my opinion despite being Lego was the best open world Batman sim)

For Ark Survival evolved (spoilers for anyone yet to beat that by the way..) End game is when you go to Ascend: Like literally the game kills every animal you’ve ever tamed in a point of definitive no return.. (there are dlcs that don’t do this now, but the original “ending” to Ark was a major middle finger to everything you did up to that point.)

For Dont Starve Solo “End Game” is when you quest through 5 randomly generated worlds and choose to show pity on Maxwell, thus ending the adventure with you trading places with him.

But for games like State of Decay 2 or DST- What defines “End Game?” Even after I define my leaders legacy in SoD 2.. I can still continue to play. Is “End Game” having a army of Merms that would rival wonder woman’s Amazonian’s & Aquaman’s Atlantean’s? Is End Game filling your entire cookbook pages? Maybe End Game is when you kill every boss, fight every mob, catch every fish, play as every character, do every event, build every craftable structure and item, & experience every single last drop of content the game has to offer..

Can we really even say that open world games have an “End-Game?” I mean I own literally every article of clothing, property and vehicle in GTA Online and that point don’t have any reason to keep playing: but there’s something about driving dirt bikes of mountains with parachutes that keep me playing anyway.

So I would like to know KLEI’s definition of “End-Game”

(not yours or mine, but the only opinion that should matter) 

And I’m pretty sure Klei’s definition of end game is when they decide to discontinue supporting it with any further updates  

[Auth]

5 hours ago, X-lem said:

I’m curious to know what servers you two are playing on. I constantly see people rushing Lunar island to get stone fruit. Granted, I don’t see boats used much other than that in survival worlds (most ocean content is late game and people don’t want to do that if the server is going to reset after a year). In our endless worlds boats are used more often.

Are people telling you they don’t know that Lunar island exists? Or do you just assume so because they don’t have any boats?

 

I just join random hosted servers that vary in days. I even connected to one that I think was on its third autumn and when I told them they changed the ocean to add stuff out there like islands, they were shocked. They thought it was just a graphics refresh, I guess…

[HowlVoid]

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I wish someone would define to me what “End-Game” even means in a open world Sandbox game.

 

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

So I would like to know KLEI’s definition of “End-Game”

(not yours or mine, but the only opinion that should matter) 

And I’m pretty sure Klei’s definition of end game is when they decide to discontinue supporting it with any further updates  

Not sure why you're asking for someone to define it to you but then also say you don't want to hear it.

In the same post too.

Let me know when you've made up your mind.

[Mike23Ua]

1 minute ago, HowlVoid said:

 

Not sure why you're asking for someone to define it to you but then also say you don't want to hear it.

In the same post too.

Let me know when you've made up your mind.

Your a wormwood main, end game for you is when you’ve mated all the Beefalo all over the map for that nice free fertilizers  

(I think?) I mean I play as Wormwood from time to time, I just don’t understand what “End Game” is.

You can feel free to share what you feel it is of course, but.. if I had a choice between hearing what the players consider “End-Game” and what the games developers consider it- I’m obviously going to go with the developers. (Nothing personal.) 

[Octohunter777]

I may not be a Wormwood main, but he is one of my favorite characters. For me the end game was usually both trying to set up beefalo manure farms and regular plant farms. And for the latter, a Wickerbottom or a feather hat usually did the job. 

As I said, Wormwood is not my primary character. (That would be Webber.) But those are the things I normally do. 

[HowlVoid]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Your a wormwood main, end game for you is when you’ve mated all the Beefalo all over the map for that nice free fertilizers  

(I think?) I mean I play as Wormwood from time to time, I just don’t understand what “End Game” is.

You can feel free to share what you feel it is of course, but.. if I had a choice between hearing what the players consider “End-Game” and what the games developers consider it- I’m obviously going to go with the developers. (Nothing personal.) 

Actually the end game for me is when I have defeat the celestial guardian because that is how far the narrative has gotten in the DST lore.

By killing that boss I am caught up with the story. The crown is also symbolic to me as it makes me Constant's king, I have an increased power over all mortal beings and even dominance over darkness and Charlie.

[Ardcrumb]

12 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Actually the end game for me is when I have defeat the celestial guardian because that is how far the narrative has gotten in the DST lore.

By killing that boss I am caught up with the story. The crown is also symbolic to me as it makes me Constant's king, I have an increased power over all mortal beings and even dominance over darkness and Charlie.

Average crown user vs Chad straw hat enjoyer

[HowlVoid]

6 minutes ago, Ardcrumb said:

Average crown user vs Chad straw hat enjoyer

Garland would be a bitter fit for the meme

[Gi-Go]

20 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

The crown is also symbolic to me as it makes me Constant's king, I have an increased power over all mortal beings and even dominance over darkness and Charlie.

> chops tree at night

> sanity drops

> crown turns off

> begs Charlie for forgiveness 

 

[HowlVoid]

2 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

> chops tree at night

> sanity drops

> crown turns off

> begs Charlie for forgiveness 

 

I don't chop trees past the first year (unless I have to) and if I do, I use pigs during summer.

[Gi-Go]

Just now, HowlVoid said:

I don't chop trees past the first year and if I do, I use pigs during summer.

Shame. Would be a great way to die. 

[Octohunter777]

28 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I don't chop trees past the first year (unless I have to) and if I do, I use pigs during summer.

Must be nice to not have them instantly try to murder you

[Ardcrumb]

5 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Snip

This is a flawed argument, the people who I'm talking about simply don't have an idea this content exists in the first place, I'm all for player choice, but these people should have a bare bones idea of what's in the ocean, or beyond, like how in gods name are you supposed to know how to feed antlion? 

Let alone cc or fuel weaver. 

With deerclops, you have warning of something coming a few minutes before it arrives, characters talking about it, maybe messages in the chat like with eye of terror after spring saying something like  "a rumbling of earth stirs the wind in the desert"? 

There are people who can love this game, but having to explain every mechanic to unlock a boss is just flawed, word of mouth alone is a horrible way of doing things. 

[HowlVoid]

4 minutes ago, Ardcrumb said:

 

Don't see how it's flawed. You seem to have a good grasp of the content, if they wanted to know more about the game they would have asked you, if they haven't already.

Sometimes having huge amounts of information about content you're not even ready for can be overwhelming. 

When they are ready for more.challenging stuff you can tell them. As I said before, word of mouth is one option of how information can get around for this game. However, if you don't want to teach them... Then that's on you.

[Erineyes7]

Yeah, this game's messy when it comes to explaining content to new players. My friends couldn't even pick up the game because they were so directionless. I wish Klei could do something, but I can't think of anything so who knows.

But yeah, some of this stuff could be better explained. I think one of the worst things is the fact that the Fuel Weaver skeleton can come out in 3 shapes. I didn't know this and thought I missed something in the Atrium and spent like an hour looking around in the chests for something that doesn't exist.

The Celestial champion quest line does much better. The Archives especially, that beacon thing that points to the various alters is great. Even then, the game makes no effort to even show ocean content, so It's a mixed bag.

[Gi-Go]

7 hours ago, Ardcrumb said:

This is a flawed argument, the people who I'm talking about simply don't have an idea this content exists in the first place, I'm all for player choice, but these people should have a bare bones idea of what's in the ocean, or beyond, like how in gods name are you supposed to know how to feed antlion? 

Let alone cc or fuel weaver. 

With deerclops, you have warning of something coming a few minutes before it arrives, characters talking about it, maybe messages in the chat like with eye of terror after spring saying something like  "a rumbling of earth stirs the wind in the desert"? 

There are people who can love this game, but having to explain every mechanic to unlock a boss is just flawed, word of mouth alone is a horrible way of doing things. 

The game was always about seeking knowledge and sharing it. Klei used to make puzzles and hidden messages in trailers. And that's because community stays together and easily finds stuff even as obscure as this. I can definitely appreciate blind playthrough, but honestly there aren't many things you will never figure out on your own. You don't need community or wiki. 

Sure some things might take a while to dind out. Antlion for exsample eats trinkets and rocks so people will test the limit of her diet and will give her a thermal stone that is too cold eventually. In fact, the only puzzle that is too hard to figure out that comes to my mind is misery toadstool. It's a secret boss. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

when i started playingDS i didnt know there were ruins, i didn't know how to rush magic, neither i new that pigs convert in werepigs (i learned it the hard way), i didn't know things burn in summer

people expect that all the noobs that just bought their game and enter in a community server will be doing other than crafting a science machine and a fire pit and pray to survive? lets stop updates until all the noobs learn all the early game and later the late game

doesnt matter what you will add, noobs wont use it because, surprise, they are noobs so, unless they dont enjoy that much the game, they need time to get confortable with the basics to start thinking on doing other stuff and obv the % of noobs is higher than the ammount of experience players

maybe some player dont take in count all the player base (sometimes i fail at this) when it comes to suggestions but experience players know what feels being a noob because we were noobs at some point. I dont know others but i remeber praying in DS to have a non deerclops winter to surive or praying for surviving until the grass and berries grow back

sure a very low percentage of players enjoy certain content but is what gives profits to klei so will be dumb to ask klei "only add early game and noob friendly stuff so that guy who bough your key in a second hand key pages for 5$ isnt overwhelm enough by all the content" instead of "add few late game content to keep that 1%of players that brings more profits than the rest of players together"

balance is the key. Add both kind of content

[Mike23Ua]

It depends on how that content is delivered- it has NOTHING at all to do with how early or how late game it is: It’s something on HOW it’s Delivered, and what that means for everyone playing in that world.

For example: If Klei adds a truly End Game boss that once beaten: transforms the entire world into a strange new world with new biomes, more difficult mobs etc what’s going to stop a LoL’z get good noob type expert from rushing this boss and making the rest of the game more difficult then it ever needed to be on people still trying to learn the regular game let alone this now Forced upon them Player Rushed New Game +?

I really enjoy the World Gen Toggles because I can now turn on/off/more/less of content not based on How long my world has existed or if I’ve done X task to trigger Y world changing event: I can toggle these things At my own free will whenever I want so I can quite literally customize the playing experience my friends will have based on what I know my friends Do & Do not enjoy.

For example: I have one friend who just like to build pretty stuff and large Carrat race tracks: For them- I turn of all seasons except Autumn, I turn off or lessen times of day, I remove all the bosses, I turn off hound waves, and lessen the amount of Nightmare creatures.

Then on the flip side of the spectrum: I have friends who want to play in Permanent 24/7 Summer with Wildfires set to More just so we can watch the world go up in a blazing inferno.

But the IMPORTANT part about all that is I can now continue to play in the same world with either of those type of friends & based on who will be joining in to play: I can customize the world to be enjoyable for who I’m playing with.

When you ask for something like “Klei killing AF & CC should terraform the entire constant” Your setting yourself up to only have the most skilled players still playing this game when surprise surprise- Some jerk rushed Terraforming the planet.

Theres no such thing as “late game content” just like there’s no such thing as noob friendly “early game content” the only thing that exists: Is CONTENT period… and how it’s delivered.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

24 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

For example: If Klei adds a truly End Game boss that once beaten: transforms the entire world into a strange new world with new biomes, more difficult mobs etc what’s going to stop a LoL’z get good noob type expert from rushing this boss and making the rest of the game more difficult then it ever needed to be on people still trying to learn the regular game let alone this now Forced upon them Player Rushed New Game +?

if a noob enters in a world with +X days, as in any other videogame, they will need to asume that the game has avanced in that world and take the risk or go to another, this isnt exclusive to dsr. Or what? we remove spring, winter, summer, bearger, hounds, etc so noobs dont enter in the wrong day count and die? 

one thing is being noob and other is being idiot. If a noob enters a world (for some reason without reading in which day the server is, etc) and sees the moonstorm and all the shenanigans he will dc and enter in a fresh world to learn from beguinning like everybody with a couple of brain cells do

28 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

When you ask for something like “Klei killing AF & CC should terraform the entire constant” Your setting yourself up to only have the most skilled players still playing this game when surprise surprise- Some jerk rushed Terraforming the planet.

sure becuase adding few updates that makes the world progress will make noobs not playing the game, sure.

do you know what will say a coherent player if they see that terraforming thing? "oh this game has a lot of contet, i will keep learning to reach it but for now i will enter in a fresh world" 

i dont get how having something behind a boss will scare all players when they dont even know that boss exists but whatever

32 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Theres no such thing as “late game content” just like there’s no such thing as noob friendly “early game content” the only thing that exists: Is CONTENT period… and how it’s delivered.

THERE IS late game content, is content suppose to be experienced in advanced worlds. Klei dis a great job and most of the content can be rushed. I dont see the problem of  having true late game content, not all the updates will be aimed to make happy casuals and new players even if that isnt of your taste.

but ok, lets say there is no late game content then why are you arguing with me? im talking about something that doesnt exists but at the same time you don't want that thing that doesn't exists. Logic

also how comes that there is no noob friendly content? eye of terror is early game but you wont see a 5h guy killing him. Pls for once think before write because is annoying to read you only wanting to be right instead of having a logical argumentation (even if that means making contradiction in the same comment)

 

some people suggest late game and if klei thinks that working on that is worth their time then you will have to deal with it because is klei who have the data to know if is worth to waste resources on adding content for people who expend 50h to found they can use lanterns because they were busy with ALL the content the game already has or to keep interested in the game the fans that support the game

as i said the game needs both kind of updates but you just argue against late game content because, as you said many times, you restart worlds after 500days which is fine but that doesnt mean that klei should make content only aimed to players like you (which is what you are asking) aswell as they shouldn't make content only for veterans. This remember me when you suggested to breake pc controls so console and pc version were the same...

 

 

i will explain you how microsanction games works:

you make content for a cheap or f2p game to make people try it

a lot will drop the game but some will like it

you release purchable content: if the economy is p2w or to progress you sell buffs, items, etc or if you wanna keep the f2p or pay2play nature you just release cosmetics like character skins, effects, more storage, mounts, etc.

a lot of people that like the game wont buy nothing because they will only play

a small amount of people which like the game will buy some stuff because: they love the game and wanna keep playing; they are addicted and wanna keep winning (gatchas and other p2w games); they are addicted and, even if thr game isnt p2w, wanna something new to have a motivation (plus some dopamine while purchasing) playing; they love\like the game and have extra money to waste so they buy a lot of stuff

you have sold 1.000.000 copies but only a 0'001% is buying the stuff you release. What to do next? keep releasing stuff to gain money from that 0.001% of players while keeping the promoting the game not to increase the 0.001% of people who love your game but to reach 2.000.000 so that 0.001% is bigger. why? because that few people will also have another 0.00001% of people who will totally buy al merchandising, skins, games, etc so at the end 1 player can worth 10000

 

everytime you watch in the news "we raise price of to tobacco and alcohol to prevent their consume" dont swallow it, think of that 0.001% that is so addicted that will keep paying at any cost for their dose so, even if tobacco companies lose costumers, the ones that keep buying makes the company win more money than all the million who stopped smoking "few cigarettes perk week" when there is someone smoking 4 packs per day

and dst has a lot of adictive components. Glad that klei isnt a greedy company like others so this 'blood the addicted" strategy isnt noticeable because they only release few cheap skins per month and a character every many time but still there. Is their strategy because who in hell can think that klei can support updating a game by selling 5e copies (which a lot of % of that goes for steam, Microsoft,sony, etc) and for that i get mad everytime i see some idiot saying "klei release too much skins, they could focus on releasing content" sure and devs will come to this user home and give a massage too

 

 

[Mike23Ua]

What I don’t want is for 2-3 people who are determined to rush this one specific boss or task, to be able to single handedly alter the entire game for everyone else.

imagine if after you killed Dragonfly the world boiled over into lava, Mini versions of Dragonfly became common every day enemy mobs, ponds became Magma pools capable of spawning Magma Golems, Larvae, Fire Spiders, Fire Hounds.

And why? Because Wolfgang/Wanda/Whoever rushed this one boss or this one task to trigger this literal “Hell” upon everyone else.

THATS What I don’t Want.

Whenever I host worlds on my Xbox people who know what they’re doing join in: Rush the ruins, and they don’t do that to get good loot or help: What more often happens is those same skilled players rush to find the Ancient Station or Glommers Statue and proceed to destroy them. And Why?? Because they’re better at the game and get some kind of sick enjoyment out of making it more difficult for people who were already struggling without their additional mischievousness?

Maybe this is exclusively just a Me not liking/trusting people problem: But I don’t think (unless your the host of your own world…) Killing a certain boss or doing a certain thing should be able to impact everyone playing.

Imagine if stealing a UFO from the Zancudo Airport in GTA Online suddenly had A.I. UFOs spawn all over the map to try and get back the UFO YOU Stole and those UFOs resurrected the dead from the grave as Zombies- YOU and you alone just turned the entire world of GTA Online into some Alien/Zombie survival thing: And all because you rushed into Zancudo & successfully flew off in a UFO.

Do you understand what I’m saying now???

Because even in my 1000+ day worlds (which never realistically reach that far because I erase them starting over by about day 600 out of boredom) But let’s just “Assume” I had a world that went on for 10,000+ days: I can always and at anytime: Exit this world & toggle On/Off/More/Less of almost any particular feature at the moment.

Firehounds becoming too annoying? I can turn them off. Now let me heavily stress that I “Personally” have no problem whatsoever dealing with fire hounds, but the friends who will join my 10,000+ day world and aren’t knowledged enough with the game to know to lure Firehounds into a safe area before killing them- Those friends can set everything I’ve worked on up in a blazing inferno and that’s by simply just playing the game without any malicious intent involved.

You give someone the power to kill X Boss or Socket Y Key into Z Gateway terraforming the entire land: And you effectively give someone the power to make the game harder on people who may not be prepared for it to BE Harder..

As much as I love Zombie games.. I wouldn’t want someone to be able to hijack a UFO forcefully turning GTA Online into one, Because not everyone playing GTA Online are going to want to deal with Zombies.

And the same situation should apply to any and all content Klei adds into DST regardless of if it’s Early or Late Game Content.

Any situation where you give any one individual or group of individuals the power to change the rest of the game for everyone else playing: (unless that person is the host of their own world..) Is just plain bad.