wolfgang Dreading the wolfgang rework

[BigPoppaFresh]

Ive got to be honest, after playing both pre-rework and post-rework Wolfgang Im really not excited for this rework.

Wolfs interesting hunger based mechanics, having to keep it topped off to ensure maximum damage, healing when not mighty to be more efficient, and using his speed to kite bosses before any other survivor, have just become: 1) Craft an item 2)Go AFK for a couple of minutes (you can't get anything else done while working out) 3) do more damage and move some things 

Its just lame such a good mechanic got replaced with going afk while Wolf works out, I play this game to play it, not watch a character do an animation for a couple of minutes. I just find the working out alot less fun then gathering food and managing wolf's hunger (to be fair I play solo dst, where pre-rework wolfgang shines) 
 

I really hope Klei implements a way to play characters in their state before their reworks (or that someone mods this) as I just find pre-rework wolfgang a whole lot more fun. 

[mima_]

chill bro its still in beta branch . can make this kind of post if the real rework released . they still gather feedbacks form the community . hope they come up with even better form of wolfgang . i personally pretty neutral for this update but still if there a better way to portrait wolfgang perks instead of being fast sumo wrestler that munch meatballs.. im up for it ..

[ArubaroBeefalo]

37 minutes ago, BigPoppaFresh said:

to be fair I play solo dst, where pre-rework wolfgang shines

where food is balanced arround 4 players...

it was a fun mechanic but doomed in a multiplayer version

it had sense in DS where food was a little more limited and you where completly alone. In DST was a nonsense because for solo was a dumb perk in a defualt world and annoying for others while playing in pubs

[BigPoppaFresh]

8 minutes ago, prettynuggets said:

chill bro its still in beta branch . can make this kind of post if the real rework released . they still gather feedbacks form the community . hope they come up with even better form of wolfgang . i personally pretty neutral for this update but still if there a better way to portrait wolfgang perks instead of being fast sumo wrestler that munch meatballs.. im up for it ..

I know its still subject to change but I don’t like the whole idea of the rework, tweaking the numbers doesn’t change my problems with it.

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

where food is balanced arround 4 players...

it was a fun mechanic but doomed in a multiplayer version

it had sense in DS where food was a little more limited and you where completly alone. In DST was a nonsense because for solo was a dumb perk and annoying while playing in pubs

Yeah I definitely agree with that!

Its why I hope we can still get the option to play old Wolf, he’s so much fun in solo and allows some really good speedrun techs and lets solo players do stuff that you would need a team of players for (such as using his speedboost to map out the world as well as making a quick ruins trip before winter starts)

[MondayNight]

A fix for one issue of current Wolfgang rework proposal would be to be able to use Dumb-bells on the go/while moving. Not by sitting/idling in a spot and watching some animation for X amount of time depending on Dumb-bell's type on-and-on-and-on. Obligatory passive play/mandatory in-game animation-watching for considerable amount of time is a bad design, no 2 ways about it. At least, in Wigfrid's and Wendy's case, even Webber's, one can just ignore their reworks' builds/additional mechanics if one doesn't fancy them and nothing significant changes with their play-styles. With Wolf, doing so results in perpetual Wimpy form with specs, aside HP, even lower/more punishing than Wes'. For vast player-base/at large this will be crippling. I presume Wolfgang, via his rework, is geared towards all player-base, not solely the "try-hards" (perpetually demanding hard nerfs, some of them even self-admitting not playing DST anymore...but coming here to comment). And if KLei is adamant about removing Wolf's Mighty speed perk, ok, but can at least have Mighty affect tree chopping and mining? If wider utility is aimed, the addition of such perks stands to reason. Piggyback and Marble Armor usage without speed penalty in Mighty form is nice, yet niche, and without Mighty Speed one is better tanking in Marble suit anyway. A lot to unpack, still beta, but time is quickly closing in and it looks like end result will be one highly polarizing, unlike any past rework to date.

[Duck986]

sigh oh my god... is anyone else tired of this except me? Am I the only one who is mostly neutral about this rework?

[mr. brj]

1 hour ago, BigPoppaFresh said:

Wolfs interesting hunger based mechanics

This is most probably an unpopular opinion but I agree with this

[Cloakingsumo198]

21 minutes ago, Duck986 said:

sigh oh my god... is anyone else tired of this except me? Am I the only one who is mostly neutral about this rework?

Get off the forums for a month buddy that's the best advice you can get right now

[MondayNight]

10 minutes ago, Duck986 said:

sigh oh my god... is anyone else tired of this except me? Am I the only one who is mostly neutral about this rework?

Let people voice their concerns. Since, after rework is out, there will remain nothing to be done for them - what they'll get will be here to stay, probably forever. I too am not vested in Wolfgang as a character, frankly I don't like him at all from concept; but I understand the complains regarding past and future kit of said character and how his mains probably feel about mentioned nerfs. More-so since this is not a competitive game and hard mechanical balance amounts to nothing in the end, really. Like irl: some people are better than others no matter what the latter do. Survival Sandbox, not laddered competition.

[Cloakingsumo198]

1 hour ago, BigPoppaFresh said:

Wolfs interesting hunger based mechanics, having to keep it topped off to ensure maximum damage, healing when not mighty to be more efficient, and using his speed to kite bosses before any other survivor, have just become: 1) Craft an item 2)Go AFK for a couple of minutes (you can't get anything else done while working out) 3) do more damage and move some things 

Its just lame such a good mechanic got replaced with going afk while Wolf works out, I play this game to play it, not watch a character do an animation for a couple of minutes. I just find the working out alot less fun then gathering food and managing wolf's hunger 

I agree wolf was always very on the move and right now the dumbbell mechanic hinders that and so does the loss of his speed boost but we can basically a accept it's not coming back and hopefully look forward to more mighty utility use aside from hauling.  Hopefully there are other ways to start increasing might meter without just working out.

[Majestix]

And here I was, thinking "it has been several hours now without yet another Wolfgang post with the same content as the previous 100. What is going on?" Thank you for saving these forums from this dreadful fate of having anything other than Wolfgang rework threads on the 1st page!

[lakhnish]

1 hour ago, Duck986 said:

sigh oh my god... is anyone else tired of this except me? Am I the only one who is mostly neutral about this rework?

Other mains got their chance to say what they wanted to say about their characters when they got rework; people who have played Wolfgang a long time deserve the same.

I have seen way too many comments that say "I'm not a Wolfgang main but..." that then proceed to tell people who do play Wolfgang regularly are wrong for thinking the way they do and that their opinions don't matter.

I think that somehow, there has been a culture of hate that has developed around Wolfgang over the years not because of Wolfgang himself but rather b/c of some of people behind playing him, thus affecting people's perception of Wolf.

I don't think there has EVER been a rework that has been as controversial as this one because of it. I have never seen where simply the announcement of perks of the character has made the announcement thread go hot for about 3 days straight to then be followed by a beta of the rework. That in of itself is very telling to me.

[Cloakingsumo198]

11 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

I have seen way too many comments that say "I'm not a Wolfgang main but..." that then proceed to tell people who do play Wolfgang regularly are wrong for thinking the way they do and that their opinions don't matter.

I think that somehow, there has been a culture of hate that has developed around Wolfgang over the years not because of Wolfgang himself but rather b/c of some of people behind playing him, thus affecting people's perception of Wolf.

Hello eg boi.

[Majestix]

6 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

Other mains got their chance to say what they wanted to say about their characters when they got rework; people who have played Wolfgang a long time deserve the same.

Sure, people can say what they think. But why does everybody need to start a new thread and then repeat what many people have already said elsewhere? The amount of space on the forums that is currently occupied by the Wolfgang refresh discussion is completely out of proportion compared to the number of players actually playing Wolfgang.

[lakhnish]

Just now, Majestix said:

Sure, people can say what they think. But why does everybody need to start a new thread and then repeat what many people have already said elsewhere? The amount of space on the forums that is currently occupied by the Wolfgang refresh discussion is completely out of proportion compared to the number of players actually playing Wolfgang.

It's for that reason. If the people who love Wolfgang don't speak up, there is the reasonable fear that these changes will be pushed as is and nothing fundamentally will change.

[Cloakingsumo198]

1 minute ago, Majestix said:

Sure, people can say what they think. But why does everybody need to start a new thread and then repeat what many people have already said elsewhere? The amount of space on the forums that is currently occupied by the Wolfgang refresh discussion is completely out of proportion compared to the number of players actually playing Wolfgang

People make their own forum in the hopes of being seen easier I dunno plus ideas are being thrown around and shared so of course you'll see the same takes

[MondayNight]

1 hour ago, Majestix said:

Sure, people can say what they think. But why does everybody need to start a new thread and then repeat what many people have already said elsewhere? The amount of space on the forums that is currently occupied by the Wolfgang refresh discussion is completely out of proportion compared to the number of players actually playing Wolfgang.

Most people don't read what others write, only want their personal concerns be heard/read by KLei since is their website. Seeing such deluge of posts regarding topic at hand it must mean a lot of people are displeased by proposed Wolf rework, more-so since most are new accounts/accounts with single-digit posts, implying they were "lurkers" or came specifically here to voice their issues after reading rework summary announcement on Steam/other game-news mediums.

And how did you calculate the proportion of Wolfgang players in relation to "amount of space on the forums that is currently occupied by the Wolfgang refresh discussion" to conclude "is completely out of proportion"? To me, again, said deluge only signals there are a lot of unsatisfied people in regard to proposed Wolf rework.

Also do you prefer the "regular", in-between updates, topics like "My very-own super headcanon", "Have we all been bamboozled by optimally inefficient tierlist", "What is WX/Deerclops/etc gender?", "Wouldn't it be great if DST did a My Lil Magic is Friendship/Cowgirls in Space/Britanica and the Burning Iceberg/AVP3,14 crossover", "What do you think [insert some obscure game character here] would do in DST?", "We took over a DST KLei server and it was great" or "Why can't we have achievements pls?!" better?

[Mike23Ua]

2 hours ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Let people voice their concerns. Since, after rework is out, there will remain nothing to be done for them - what they'll get will be here to stay, probably forever. I too am not vested in Wolfgang as a character, frankly I don't like him at all from concept; but I understand the complains regarding past and future kit of said character and how his mains probably feel about mentioned nerfs. More-so since this is not a competitive game and hard mechanical balance amounts to nothing in the end, really. Like irl: some people are better than others no matter what the latter do. Survival Sandbox, not laddered competition.

This isn’t true, after the rework is out Klei takes roughly two weeks to gather all feedback and adjust it as they feel they need to: Wendy’s Rework actually released like out of beta and everything… and then after a week or so of EVERYONE having it (not just PC) they tuned her based on ALL the Feedback they got.

With Wolfgang in Particular: I’m sure from a CONSOLE Perspective a simple Gym Mini-Game where you press A to hit a bar to gain Mighty is going to be absolutely loved: maybe not with KB+Mouse it won’t be any fun.. idk, I just know that Mini-Games are popular on Xbox.

[Dollmaker]

12 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This isn’t true, after the rework is out Klei takes roughly two weeks to gather all feedback and adjust it as they feel they need to: Wendy’s Rework actually released like out of beta and everything… and then after a week or so of EVERYONE having it (not just PC) they tuned her based on ALL the Feedback they got.

With Wolfgang in Particular: I’m sure from a CONSOLE Perspective a simple Gym Mini-Game where you press A to hit a bar to gain Mighty is going to be absolutely loved: maybe not with KB+Mouse it won’t be any fun.. idk, I just know that Mini-Games are popular on Xbox.

The main problem i see is largely with the Stone Dumbbell, that thing is useless. 

Otherwise i think the refresh is fine, people miss the speed boost and all, but fail to consider how broken he would be with the current buffs he got.

Consistent 2X dmg and no speed penalty for Marble Armor and Piggybag, he also doesnt need to eat food as often to keep the Mighty Form.

(And thats without counting all the other stuff he got as well, like faster rowing or heavy carrying) 

Hes weaker early on, but later he is stronger than the pre-rework version. 

[Majestix]

30 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Also do you prefer the "regular", in-between updates, topics like "My very-own super headcanon", "Have we all been bamboozled by optimally inefficient tierlist", "What is WX/Deerclops/etc gender?", "Wouldn't it be great if DST did a My Lil Magic is Friendship/Cowgirls in Space/Britanica and the Burning Iceberg/AVP3,14 crossover", "What do you think [insert some obscure game character here] would do in DST?", "We took over a DST KLei server and it was great" or "Why can't we have achievements pls?!" better?

No, I hate those too
But these "Give me my Wolfgang back" cries started before anyone had played even just a second of the refreshed character or even seen any gameplay. As somebody else has pointed out, the same thing happened when RWYS was released. Now nobody claims any more that this was a bad update, although I believe I have not seen anybody come forward on these forums and say "Sorry, Klei, I was being hysterical before I had any real information or experience with the update, next time I will reserve my judgement until I actually know what I am talking about".
 

[MondayNight]

28 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This isn’t true, after the rework is out Klei takes roughly two weeks to gather all feedback and adjust it as they feel they need to: Wendy’s Rework actually released like out of beta and everything… and then after a week or so of EVERYONE having it (not just PC) they tuned her based on ALL the Feedback they got.

With Wolfgang in Particular: I’m sure from a CONSOLE Perspective a simple Gym Mini-Game where you press A to hit a bar to gain Mighty is going to be absolutely loved: maybe not with KB+Mouse it won’t be any fun.. idk, I just know that Mini-Games are popular on Xbox.

Because Wendy, The GlassCanon variant, was as a "popular" direction as current Wolf one is - similarly a lot of complains were issued. Another thing to point in Wendy's regard: she was and is most popular players choice. She and Wig are top picks, followed by Wilson (since he's "default" character). Wolf is towards the lower half of server pickings atm. As for how popular Wolf will be after rework, best can asses this 1 month after "new update" hype toned down.

 

6 minutes ago, Majestix said:

But these "Give me my Wolfgang back" cries started before anyone had played even just a second of the refreshed character or even seen any gameplay. As somebody else has pointed out, the same thing happened when RWYS was released. Now nobody claims any more that this was a bad update, although I believe I have not seen anybody come forward on these forums and say "Sorry, Klei, I was being hysterical before I had any real information or experience with the update, next time I will reserve my judgement until I actually know what I am talking about".

Human nature in general: when real and/or perceived bad things happen, most people knee jerk react. And if wrong, aside not caring there's also the Ego impeding the public acknowledgement of mistakes. Plus in this particular case of RWYS, frankly, how many farmers have you encountered in pubs, even more - ones efficiently knowing what they do? Player bulk has no clue even how to initiate farming, since in public servers I often see people asking what Digamajig does, then how to plant in deployed soil and so on (not even touching the Nutrients subject). Because is not about the regulars of these forums, who at large are very well versed DST players; knowledge level of general DST populace is very low. And KLei, supposedly, makes this game for all players fancying Survival Sandbox, not solely "the elite veterans".

[Mangrove]

5 hours ago, BigPoppaFresh said:

after playing both pre-rework and post-rework Wolfgang Im really not excited for this rework

I feel you. I'm so attached to Wolfgang, this rework makes me feel miserable. It takes the opposite direction regarding almost every thing I find fun and engaging about playing him (speed, fluidity, kiting, exploration and juggling food while fighting)

[Cheggf]

5 hours ago, prettynuggets said:

chill bro its still in beta branch . can make this kind of post if the real rework released .

It is literally in the beta because they explicitly asked people for feedback. There wasn't going to be a beta but when they saw how controversial it was they made a beta so people can give more informed feedback. @BigPoppaFresh is calmly giving his feedback for the beta, the only person who isn't calm is you who's trying to shut down criticism for absolutely no reason.

If you don't want to read feedback, don't read it.

[Superlucas1231]

2 hours ago, Majestix said:

Sure, people can say what they think. But why does everybody need to start a new thread and then repeat what many people have already said elsewhere? The amount of space on the forums that is currently occupied by the Wolfgang refresh discussion is completely out of proportion compared to the number of players actually playing Wolfgang.

I get that it is annoying to see the same thread with the same exact discussion being spammed around the forum, but It isn't the first time people spammed rework discussion threads. During Willow's rework, Klei did not give Willow her fire immunity that she had in Don't starve alone. It took more than 20 different threads for Klei to finally add it back in. 

I don't think people make new threads in bad faith, they're just passionate about Wolf and the game.  

[Yuuko]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

This isn’t true, after the rework is out Klei takes roughly two weeks to gather all feedback and adjust it as they feel they need to: Wendy’s Rework actually released like out of beta and everything… and then after a week or so of EVERYONE having it (not just PC) they tuned her based on ALL the Feedback they got.

With Wolfgang in Particular: I’m sure from a CONSOLE Perspective a simple Gym Mini-Game where you press A to hit a bar to gain Mighty is going to be absolutely loved: maybe not with KB+Mouse it won’t be any fun.. idk, I just know that Mini-Games are popular on Xbox.

Wendy rework was about as bad as Wolfgang rework.  This time Klei announced Wolfgang's mechanics before they launched him, where Wendy was launched with her announcement at the same time.  Hopefully Klei can move as quickly with Wolf as with Wendy in rectifying their refresh.

Also about the gym game - granted I'm an avid rhythm gaming player - I get bored of the gym very quickly.  The cycle is too slow, and accuracy bar too wide to capture my interest.  The potato sacks barely give any Mighty, so you're there for a while slowly clicking on an easy target...  When you up them to statues the success bar is so wide you could look away idly tapping space bar and not miss a beat...  imo its a good idea, but not done well.  It can easily be fixed though, and is one of my lesser concerns with the update.

2 hours ago, Majestix said:

No, I hate those too
But these "Give me my Wolfgang back" cries started before anyone had played even just a second of the refreshed character or even seen any gameplay. As somebody else has pointed out, the same thing happened when RWYS was released. Now nobody claims any more that this was a bad update, although I believe I have not seen anybody come forward on these forums and say "Sorry, Klei, I was being hysterical before I had any real information or experience with the update, next time I will reserve my judgement until I actually know what I am talking about".
 

idk - the more I play it, the more I think "this is a lot of work for nothing."  2x damage isn't that big of a deal anymore, as we have better beefalo taming, abigail, walry foods, and Wanda.  I feel I lose more time pumping weights than my 2x damage is worth many times.