sped Should Wolfgang get his Speed Boost back?

[Milordo]

23 minutes ago, hhh2 said:

i'm pretty sure most of those people are just part of the "nerf wolfgang bandwagon, i don't play him anyway" and don't really care what happens aslong as he loses his speedboost. I certainly don't agree and think he should still have his speed boost (especially now, where it can take up to two minutes and cost 4 rocks and some twigs to get it) when mighty. the statues and marble suits should just be a given, even without the rework, as you are right it is a whatever perk and is very inconsequential.

Anyway bro, i think you should just come to terms that old wolfgang is dead and will most likely remain the way he is in the beta with a few number tweaks. It's just time to say goodbye to fun speedruns and find a new character to play. 

You're acting more childish than the "people" you're going against.

[Mike23Ua]

Polite & constructive.. please & thanks.

[myxal]

2 hours ago, BeeClops said:

mind boggling to me that the majority of people voting here actually think fast heavy item carrying is a good compensation for not having speed bonus. Like, it's not even worth discussing, it has nothing to do with it gameplay wise or does it compensate in any way. Carrying statues fast is a very whatever perk, I never thought people think this perk is as good as having extra speed. 

 

You are ignoring marble suits. That's 4x less damage taken compared to footballhats, while maintaining the same kiting capability as most other characters.

[BeeClops]

1 minute ago, myxal said:

You are ignoring marble suits. That's 4x less damage taken compared to footballhats, while maintaining the same kiting capability as most other characters.

For me the only character that really benefits and requires 95% dmg reduction is Wanda. I'm not ignoring it, it's a very whatever perk to me like I already said, especially when you are putting it against the speed bonus. Most of the early day combat is done with fhelm/eyemask with a backpack and after that you have thule crowns and bone armors for mid to late serious combat. I don't think there are many non-Wanda mains that constantly use 95% dmg reduction gear, do you? 

[Monkey Cups]

1 hour ago, BeeClops said:

Lolol I was thinking about this too today. Joeshomo must be fuming rn :))) 

Seeing as Joe did wimpy 1hp Wes runs and made the mod where bosses constantly spawn on you and you can't run from them somehow I don't think he'd be too fussed about Wolfgang not being demi-godmode anymore.

Wolfgang never needed the speed boost. It was a weird addition to his strongman gig. I don't think "olympic sprinter" when people say the word strongman, and generally there's a reason why weight lifters and runners have different physiques. And yeah yeah "but but other characters have speed boosts!" they're also not combat beasts with the exception of upgraded WX with that health pool, but that requires time and gears, and even overcharge requires you to pray for lightning rng or work with a Wickerbottom casting End Is Nigh. It wasn't just eat a meatbol turn into the Flash.

[myxal]

1 minute ago, BeeClops said:

I don't think there are many non-Wanda mains that constantly use 95% dmg reduction gear, do you? 

There aren't now, exactly because of the speed debuff  For new wolfgang, marble suit is a "discount thule suit" - make from surface materials, without the need to reach ruins, the obnoxious transport to wherever I expect a fight, and no stackability. 

[BeeClops]

1 minute ago, Monkey Cups said:

Wolfgang never needed the speed boost. It was a weird addition to his strongman gig. I don't think "olympic sprinter" when people say the word strongman, and generally there's a reason why weight lifters and runners have different physiques. And yeah yeah "but but other characters have speed boosts!" they're also not combat beasts with the exception of upgraded WX with that health pool, but that requires time and gears, and even overcharge requires you to pray for lightning rng or work with a Wickerbottom casting End Is Nigh. It wasn't just eat a meatbol turn into the Flash.

oh I didn't know don't starve isn't a game based on logic and realism, my bad. I had no idea weight lifters and runners have different physiques either, thanks for that piece of trivia as well. Anyway, I think we can both agree we view the game differently and move on, I really couldn't care less how weird or how much sense things make in this game. 

[Sir Noel]

The only issue I have is the lack of compensation for removing his speed boost entirely. Many (including me) found Wolfgang a really fun and powerful character because of how simple he was, and while I'm holding my breath for more updates to his rework, he's just not that enjoyable for me anymore. You can have your opinions on that, but I just find it disheartening to completely remove a staple perk of the character and not at least try to work around it to make it more balanced/interesting, like other reworks have.

[BeeClops]

1 minute ago, myxal said:

There aren't now, exactly because of the speed debuff 

no, there aren't because there is no need for it  if Wanda didn't have to constantly stay at 20hp, she wouldn't need it either. 

[Dextops]

2 hours ago, Ohan said:

And piggyback and marble suit, arguably the best armor in the game (materials, durability, protection%)  if u can negate the 30% slow which wolf can now. 

still doesn't even come close to how good speed is. Marble suit is only good in combat speed is good in every situation its not even close to a fair trade off

[Ohan]

1 minute ago, Dextops said:

its not even close to a fair trade off

Because im assuming that was not the point. A nerf is not a buff 

what trade off did wicker get for hort only growing 10 edibles and the new silviculture requiring a living log to craft? 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, BeeClops said:

no, there aren't because there is no need for it  if Wanda didn't have to constantly stay at 20hp, she wouldn't need it either. 

using 95% armor reduce by a lot the damage taken which means less healing wasted

not for anything we go downstars to get a 90% armor helmet, if it doesnt matter we would keep killing pigs like peasants but 80% damage reduction vs 90% makes the difference. And 95% vs 90% too since that 5% of difference means half damage taken: 100 damage with thulecite suit= 10 damage taken damage vs 100 damage with marble suit= 5 damage taken for a cheap recipe from a material that can be mass farmed with merms, gunpowder, weather pains, bearger, skeleton, etc

not for anything the best armor for the ruins is the night armor

[Dextops]

Just now, Ohan said:

Because im assuming that was not the point. A nerf is not a buff 

what trade off did wicker get for hort only growing 10 edibles and the new silviculture requiring a living log to craft? 

but the nerf makes no sense at all. Refreshes are meant to make a character more FUN. I hate the word balance i despise it unless it directly effects how fun the character is then balance should not take over the importance of how fun the character is something that has happened with wolfgangs rework nerfs nerfs nerfs to an already balanced character

[myxal]

6 minutes ago, BeeClops said:

no, there aren't because there is no need for it  if Wanda didn't have to constantly stay at 20hp, she wouldn't need it either. 

Look - you asked people voting "yes, heavy item debuff bypass is a good tradeoff" for their reasoning. To which I say that being able to get a discount thule suit and a discount krampus sack early game is definitely a worthy buff.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

the speed nerf would have more sense if they increase the working speed while mining, chopping, etc to fit the strong man archetype and compensating the time we dont save from the speed with time saved while gathering resources which also will make wolfgang a lot better in a cooperative server

2 birds 1 stone

 

edit: also would fit his "wolfgang is better but expensive" if he wastes more durability. Wolfgang was release on DS to have an "op" character (if you think x2 damage is op in dst go play DS and decimate 1000hp bosses) so it would make sense if wolfgang is somekind of buffed woodie but more expensive to maintain via wasting dumbbell durability, food and tools durability

[Monkey Cups]

16 minutes ago, BeeClops said:

oh I didn't know don't starve isn't a game based on logic and realism, my bad. I had no idea weight lifters and runners have different physiques either, thanks for that piece of trivia as well. Anyway, I think we can both agree we view the game differently and move on, I really couldn't care less how weird or how much sense things make in this game. 

It's funny how no one complains about other games having playable classes with specializations. It's only when the golden child of DST gets changed that people make a fuss. You wouldn't expect the hard hitting strong guy in a fighting game to be a speedster, why do you expect it here?

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, Monkey Cups said:

It's funny how no one complains about other games having playable classes with specializations. It's only when the golden child of DST gets changed that people make a fuss.

because its a bad change, hes been made unfun and only useful in a small small small part of the game where his dps matters and in a team he doesn't help the team at all

[BeeClops]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

using 95% armor reduce by a lot the damage taken which means less healing wasted

not for anything we go downstars to get a 90% armor helmet, if it doesnt matter we would keep killing pigs like peasants but 80% damage reduction vs 90% makes the difference. And 95% vs 90% too since that 5% of difference means half damage taken: 100 damage with thulecite suit= 10 damage taken damage vs 100 damage with marble suit= 5 damage taken for a cheap recipe from a material that can be mass farmed with merms, gunpowder, weather pains, bearger, skeleton, etc

not for anything the best armor for the ruins is the night armor

I understand but I disagree, the armors isn't really the aim of the ruins I think in general, much more the other things, magi, star, ability to dupe items. Personally I never used dark armor to clear ruins, just helms, until wanda ofc. Plus I think most people use helmet+backpack when fighting, especially far from a designated boss locations.

Perhaps I'm overlooking it a little, it is very easy to farm and sure it's worth using for Wolf post refresh, but it's a perk that probably values 2-5% of the speed perk, that being my main point. It doesn't compensate for it.

4 minutes ago, Monkey Cups said:

It's funny how no one complains about other games having playable classes with specializations. It's only when the golden child of DST gets changed that people make a fuss. You wouldn't expect the hard hitting strong guy in a fighting game to be a speedster, why do you expect it here?

Huh? I didn't expect anything, this is how he always was, and the main reason people enjoyed playing him. 

[Milordo]

28 minutes ago, Sir Aaron said:

The only issue I have is the lack of compensation for removing his speed boost entirely. Many (including me) found Wolfgang a really fun and powerful character because of how simple he was, and while I'm holding my breath for more updates to his rework, he's just not that enjoyable for me anymore. You can have your opinions on that, but I just find it disheartening to completely remove a staple perk of the character and not at least try to work around it to make it more balanced/interesting, like other reworks have.

Curious question: before all of this, before even Wolfgang was thought to be the next for rework, i always depict Wolfgang as a combat character and in my old imaginary rework i wanted to change the speed to be tied in combat = Wolfgang would obtain the speed bonus only when is fighting something or something want to fights Wolfgang. Would you like it more?

[Ohan]

29 minutes ago, Dextops said:

an already balanced character

I mean thats subjective, current wolf gets double damage, 300 hp and 1.2 movement speed from just eating food, something that the game forces u to do anyway regardless of anything. If u compare those stats across the char roster its clear that wolf achieves them at an incomparably cheap price. But thats just my opinion. 

I think our main problem is that klei released wolfgang like that to begin with  he bulldozes DST healthbars idk what they were thinking unleashing him on 2k HP singleplayer Deerclops back in the day 

26 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

increase the working speed while mining, chopping, etc to fit the strong man archetype

I think this is needed and would be really nice to round him out and give him something beside “just boss killer” as ppl like to say. + the potato sack as mobile chest in some way. 

16 minutes ago, BeeClops said:

and the main reason people enjoyed playing him. 

If ur suffering from a need for speed  may i interest u in a character of a more... vegetal variety ?

[Milordo]

23 minutes ago, myxal said:

Look - you asked people voting "yes, heavy item debuff bypass is a good tradeoff" for their reasoning. To which I say that being able to get a discount thule suit and a discount krampus sack early game is definitely a worthy buff.

Exactly, having a more economic items right of the bat, is not something to throw it out!

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, Ohan said:

I think our main problem is that klei released wolfgang like that to begin with  he bulldozes DST healthbars idk what they were thinking unleashing him on 2k HP singleplayer Deerclops back in the day 

ik this isn't the point here but imma just say something. A goddamn dps boost is not that good of a perk go burn at the stake already but for real its so damn situational only useful in bosses and in a team its completely void and i hate how people show how good a character is by how good their boss killing is

[Ohan]

1 minute ago, Dextops said:

ik this isn't the point here but imma just say something. A goddamn dps boost is not that good of a perk go burn at the stake already but for real its so damn situational only useful in bosses and in a team its completely void and i hate how people show how good a character is by how good their boss killing is

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, Dextops said:

ik this isn't the point here but imma just say something. A goddamn dps boost is not that good of a perk go burn at the stake already but for real its so damn situational only useful in bosses and in a team its completely void and i hate how people show how good a character is by how good their boss killing is

is true but at the same time the most played characters are wendy and wigfrid because of fights :P

[Dextops]

2 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

is true but at the same time the most played characters are wendy and wigfrid because of fights :P

because noobs don't know what kiting is and most of the people who play this game just learned what an alchemy engine. Characters with low skill ceilings especially in combat will be played more