sped Should Wolfgang get his Speed Boost back?

[Dextops]

2 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

I love the cheese method argument, as if everyone prefers to exploit the game mechanics to kill a boss without effort. 
theres a difference between picking a character to make a long fight shorter and just turning the fight effectively off and smacking the boss until it dies or burning it to death or any of the other methods to make the game super easy
 

its in the game and when rating how good something is you should take in all factors bugs or not

2 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

So play wormwood or wx instead. Speed kings

walter is the true speed king but wolfgang takes a close second

[Copyafriend]

3 minutes ago, Dextops said:

its in the game and when rating how good something is you should take in all factors bugs or not

No you should judge the game based off of intended gameplay, them allowing you to cheese the bosses doesnt change the fact that the bosses arent meant to just be cheesed. 
 

additionally you are ignoring the fact that you basically used the ability to cheese bosses to justify calling the best character for fighting bosses useless without his speed buff. If he is useless without the speed buff he was useless with it too, a speed buff is a nice bonus, not what makes or breaks a character. 

[Dextops]

8 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

No you should judge the game based off of intended gameplay, them allowing you to cheese the bosses doesnt change the fact that the bosses arent meant to just be cheesed. 

no you should judge the character at their full potential ignoring something because its against your own principle is ignorant and is not factual for how good the character actually is

[goblinball]

3 hours ago, Dextops said:

killing a mob in 3 seconds instead of 2 big woop

You’re forgetting the most important aspect to wolfgang’s 2x damage: saving resources. Dealing 2x damage means you will need to use half the dark swords, and killing bosses twice as fast means you will need to use around half the armor. I never played Wolfgang so I could kill things faster, I played him so I could save on combat tools. Besides, being able to kill hounds in 2 hits or spiders in 1 is a big deal. When you are fighting hoards of those, those extra hits count and add up over time.

[Dextops]

Just now, goblinball said:

You’re forgetting the most important aspect to wolfgang’s 2x damage: saving resources. Dealing 2x damage means you will need to use half the dark swords, and killing bosses twice as fast means you will need to use around half the armor. I never played Wolfgang so I could kill things faster, I played him so I could save on combat tools. Besides, being able to kill hounds in 2 hits or spiders in 1 is a big deal. When you are fighting hoards of those, those extra hits count and add up over time.

yes but my main point is that its all based around combat and mostly boss combat which i find to be very situational and for mob shredding he isn't the best at it which is true for a lot of things for this update like statue carrying walter is and will always be better than him at it

[Copyafriend]

1 minute ago, Dextops said:

yes but my main point is that its all based around combat and mostly boss combat which i find to be very situational and for mob shredding he isn't the best at it which is true for a lot of things for this update like statue carrying walter is and will always be better than him at it

Fighting character has fighting based perks, fans shocked.

He wasnt better at other things before either? He wasnt the fastest or the best at resource gathering, or anything really. But he was always the best because he did the most damage. The only thing wendy beats him in is crowd control, and thats because its HER specialty, confronted with the serious bosses abigail wilts, wolfgang doesnt. 

i dont get your complaints, his whole thing is and always was fighting, design wise the speed boost doesnt seem like it was meant to be kept up indefinitely considering the punishment for dropping below mighty and eating too much food. It, at least to me, seems like you were meant to buff yourself up before a big fight and kill something before going back to normal. Its clever to eat a bunch of medium foods to keep the speed boost up indefinitely for sure. But klei has spoken, you werent supposed to be the fast character. You were supposed to buff yourself up and fight. 
now as almost an apology you can do a bunch of minor things that makes sense for a strongman like wear heavy armor and packs with no downside and carry things easily. 
basically they boiled his character down and simplified it. He doesn’t need to scarf 10 meatballs mid fight because his hunger ran low and his dps is suffering. And now you dont have any downsides if you just use a dumbell and stay in regular form until you need to be mighty. Carru a gold on and buff real quick before killing a den or two. No unnecessary wasteful stack of meatballs needed for your full potential

[Dextops]

3 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

now as almost an apology you can do a bunch of minor things that makes sense for a strongman like wear heavy armor and packs with no downside and carry things easily. 

old wolfgang was faster with a piggyback and the marble suit thing is so utterly useless i don't get why people praise it. lets say you are just trying to kill beequeen and that is your only goal you get buff and kill her, nice, now you play as wilson for the next 20 days because he has no other perks outside of boss killing until the boss you want killed respawns it is such a stupid gameplay loop he basically isn't his own character until you are fighting a boss

 

6 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Fighting character has fighting based perks, fans shocked.

maybe if he actually went in depth with fighting like some other characters do but the main thing about this is that all characters have combat related perks whether its new ones or reworked ones that a 2x dmg multiplier

seems like a minor perk for the other characters yet that is wolfgangs only important perk

[HowlVoid]

3 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

Real talk, and i know some people are gonna cry and scream as i pour this cold water on them but heres the truth: speed buffs dont really matter THAT much.

Speed is one of most versatile perk in the game. 

Are we passing opinions as facts now?

Quote

unless you’re a speedrunner if you want better speed the answer is and will always be beefalo, they can move faster than any combination of character movement buffs that exist. Wolfgangs speed only improved travel times, and while it’s probably one of the most time saving perks for a character to have: it really doesn’t matter at the end of the day unless you’re speedrunning.

Then damage must not matter either because your only going kill bosses sooner? You don't need to be a speerunners to appreciate what a perk brings to the table in solo or team play. 

Quote

and to be honest: no, wolfgang doesnt need a speed boost. Double dps, IS HUGE.

It has been proven time and time again that damage has diminishing returns in multiplayer. Damage isn't the most important thing, when gathering resources can be just as important if not more so.

Quote

Despite what people think, this game has a pretty big focus on combat,

However, combat is completely optional.

Quote

and being able to oneshot fire/ice hounds, twoshot normal hounds, and oneshot normal spiders, bees, and trivialize most threats. Is a pretty dang huge perk.

Not really, as proven by your own statement doing things sooner is only for speerunners right?

The are many ways to tackle the challenges dished out by the game and it's been irrefutably proven that damage is more of a luxury than a necessity. This is proven even more so in the late game where stronger items exist which can facilitate encounters like bunnymen, shootings, Winona catapults, etc. As player progress continues damage becomes more and more obsolete. 

What happens after you kill a boss and have obtained all that you wish from particular boss? At what point does damage continue to stay relevant? 

Speed on the other hand is always a sought after commodity. Speed was an important stat Wolfgang had that may have been even more important than his damage 

Quote

Now he does his main focus: DPS easier and cheaper than ever.

His only focus now 

Quote

The guy who is bigger and stronger than every other character

Very debatable, as I previously stated he also has a cap while other characters continue to grow and surpass him.

Quote

 should not be faster as well.  Stop comparing him to pre rework wolfgang at full hunger and compare him to the other survivors.

That is terrible advice, why would you not also compare Wolfgang to his previous self. That is an issue I am finding a lot of people are fooling themselves into believing. Wolfgang is supposed to be built upon and further explored, why would he be balanced around, let's say Wendy? Why does Wigfrid perks matter when balancing Wolfgang? Wolfgang should be built around Wolfgang. 

Quote

He’s literally still the strongest. And now he doesnt have to eat enough food to feed half of a server for a couple days to fight a single boss. 

Wolfgang still requires to eat a considerable amount when working out but now he also drains rocks too.

Quote

also: now he can use arguably the best armor (marble) with literally no downsides. He can also have the best non krampus backpack, with no downsides. 

This existed before the rework. It has also been proven that armor that is easily obtainable triumphs armor with a higher defence rating.

This is because when kiting the amount of damage you are going to receive will always be minimal as a player skills improve. Then what one will want is armor that protect the wearer during the times they do make a mistake.

Personally marble is a pain to farm too, Wolfgang has 0 gathering perks.

Quote

he didnt need a speed boost and it was rightfully taken away, you wanna whine about double damage not being enough of a perk? Why are you playing the dps character? For the speedboost? Play as wormwood or WX if you want a speed boost, wormwoods is more reliable anyway and WXs is stronger

Grand, people can't argue about what they think ideal balance is because other characters exist?

Actually, why are you trying to balance Wolfgang when more balanced characters exist? 

This is why I think that when speaking about balancing Wolfgang we should go about it considering only Wolfgang. Every nich already exists, by your logic Wolfgang should just be deleted because he isn't doing anything new.

[- Ave -]

Plis don't remove this feature! It is making him great in fights, as he should be,

and i want to point out that not every rework needs new character'o meter, quick ability to become mighty was great! Dont artificially prolong the gameplay, that is no the way ppl want to play, especially Wolfgang mains! ; (

One thing that would be amazing, i repeat a m a z i n g would be if thre would be much stronger nightmare creatures when you are insane as Wolfgang, beacouse that's the change we need, there is literarly no punishment for beeing insane, right now it is only a bit annoying, while it should be dangerous, especialy as Wolfgang who should be affected by nightmares much more than other survivors (due to his unique perks)

just imagine Gigant Crawling Horror that splits to smaller ones on death, swift Terrorbeak who would be doing dash attack (kinda like klaus jump), or shadow claws (alternate version of shadow hands) which would be attacking you when if you would try to chase them away (they would attack and then disappear or just steal fire as usual ones do)

And thats something i would Love to see! 

[. . .]

add it back for the speedrunners

[Copyafriend]

18 minutes ago, Dextops said:

old wolfgang was faster with a piggyback and the marble suit thing is so utterly useless i don't get why people praise it. lets say you are just trying to kill beequeen and that is your only goal you get buff and kill her, nice, now you play as wilson for the next 20 days because he has no other perks outside of boss killing until the boss you want killed respawns it is such a stupid gameplay loop he basically isn't his own character until you are fighting a boss

 

maybe if he actually went in depth with fighting like some other characters do but the main thing about this is that all characters have combat related perks whether its new ones or reworked ones that a 2x dmg multiplier

seems like a minor perk for the other characters yet that is wolfgangs only important perk

Ok lets cut to the chase because honestly with you it seems like you’re ignore the entire point of why ive been arguing with you.

why did you ever play wolfgang if all you wanted was his speed boost? You’re just arguing that double damage is next to useless, but it is his focus as a character. There ARE other characters that can be fast, and if his damage buff is so worthless that all you can talk about is how pointless of a character wolfgang is without his secondary perk, then why havent you been just playing a character that does his secondary perk better? 
you even admitted that walter is faster and walter has a resource gathering tool in his slingshot, thats a lot of really easy morsels and feathers and aggro’d running enemies etc.

I was arguing that design wise wolfgang being fast doesnt make sense, and yeah his speed boost did overpower the speed reductions from the armor and piggyback, but im willing to bet you didnt use them because they slowed you down. Well they dont now so you can use it with no downsides. 
and if you wanna go fast, just get a beefalo, they were always faster anyway. 

[Dextops]

9 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

why did you ever play wolfgang if all you wanted was his speed boost? You’re just arguing that double damage is next to useless, but it is his focus as a character. There ARE other characters that can be fast, and if his damage buff is so worthless that all you can talk about is how pointless of a character wolfgang is without his secondary perk, then why havent you been just playing a character that does his secondary perk better? 

i am not saying he is my main i did find him on the boring side of characters before the rework but he did have a niche which was rushing bosses and i can see why people liked that but this rework fixed none of this it just made it worse its harder to rush bosses since his speed is gone and he requires more work for less gain

 

10 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

I was arguing that design wise wolfgang being fast doesnt make sense, and yeah his speed boost did overpower the speed reductions from the armor and piggyback, but im willing to bet you didnt use them because they slowed you down. Well they dont now so you can use it with no downsides. 

don't get what you're saying here because its the same wolfgang could still carry the piggyback without going below 1 speed so this isn't something that should be praised from the rework its not a fair trade off because nothing was traded just taken away

[Mike23Ua]

This thread is all over the place: Wolfgang should get his speed boost only when he is as weak and fragile as WES.. 
Otherwise: The people wanting it back just want to hit bosses harder and move faster- that’s the BORING part of his original design Majority of the community wanted to get Axed.

If you still want the Speed Boost: Expect some heavy Nerfs to go alongside it (look at Woodie he can’t do ANYTHING not even gather stuff while going fast..)

And your seriously trying to justify Being stronger AND going faster as “Balanced”?

Heres what you all seem to be misunderstanding: These characters WEREN'T Balanced for SOLO DS Because they did not NEED TO BE- In Solo DS you could be as OP as you wanted to be because no one else was relying upon/cooperating WITH YOU.

So characters like WX78, WickerBottom, and Wolfgang could be Broken OP GODS and no one would care… WES could be entirely Useless and no one will mind.

Thing is: DST is a MULTIPLAYER Game: Wickerbottom has already seen nerfs outside of her Rework which hasn’t even happened yet, WES was made LESS useless, it was only a matter of time before Klei got around to WOLFGANG (and also eventually WX78 is on that same nerf list)

Now… before anyone says anything you must first consider the following: DST was ORIGINALLY going to just be a stand alone expansion to the original game, it was simply DS with friends… but as of 2019: DST has been slowly becoming a full fledged SEQUEL..

Now let me ask: What generally happens between the original game and a actual released SEQUEL?? The answer: Changes.. BIG ONES.

Better yet: What happens when a franchise that was originally SINGLE PLAYER makes the leap to MULTI-PLAYER?? The answer: BALANCE and lots of it.

this doesn’t just apply to DST… this applies to ANY MULTIPLAYER GAME OR FRANCHISE that was once Single Player.

So the TL:DR- The speed boost while being mighty and punching harder needed to justifiably get axed, the speed boost when as weak and as fragile as Wes could come back if its properly BALANCED.

Stop giving Klei so much criticism for making changes that NEEDED to be done, I used to love playing as Wickerbottom and I hated the changes to her books, but later on I realized… those changes were a necessary thing that needed to be done so that she wasn’t a broken unbalanced GOD TIER character in a Multiplayer game..

I have since then come to accept Wickers Nerfs, and any future Nerfs she may still be yet to receive:

here’s a shocker for you- If needed I’m willing to fully accept and embrace WENDY Nerfs, why?? Because Multiplayer Balance.

Which Old Wolfgang didn’t have, New Rework Wolfgang is striving for but needs a little more polish.

[kilobit]

I did vote yes, but after reading more on Wolfgang post-rework and what people have said...
He'd be fine with or without it. If only there were a character in the game focused on speed, someone who moves as if they're vehicle... with wheels...

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

This thread is all over the place: Wolfgang should get his speed boost only when he is as weak and fragile as WES.. 

this just worsens one of the biggest problems i have with it there is no point in being mighty doing this will just make it even worse being rewarded for failing to keep up your characters meters is stupid

[Mike23Ua]

I’ve seen the posts you make and you talk about speed running bosses a fair bit, which is kind of ironic when you claim speed & damage boosts don’t matter.

Like I said: if he has to keep the speed boost make it utterly useless while in Combat- the Armor with no movement speed penalties massively makes up for it.

If you want to speed run things outside of combat like you claim: Do it with a Wolfgang that doesn’t hit like a diesel truck.

Otherwise: just like with Wickers book nerf, it needed to be brought down a peg or two.

[Dextops]

13 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I’ve seen the posts you make and you talk about speed running bosses a fair bit, which is kind of ironic when you claim speed & damage boosts don’t matter.

Like I said: if he has to keep the speed boost make it utterly useless while in Combat- the Armor with no movement speed penalties massively makes up for it.

If you want to speed run things outside of combat like you claim: Do it with a Wolfgang that doesn’t hit like a diesel truck.

Otherwise: just like with Wickers book nerf, it needed to be brought down a peg or two.

combat character should be good at combat?????? anyway what im saying i don't like about this suggestion is that it rewards you for being bad and not being able to maintain your mightyness but the problem with mightyness is that theres no reason to ever be it other than combat giving him speed would make up for it 100% percent

[Copyafriend]

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

Speed is one of most versatile perk in the game. 

Are we passing opinions as facts now?

Then damage must not matter either because your only going kill bosses sooner? You don't need to be a speerunners to appreciate what a perk brings to the table in solo or team play. 

It has been proven time and time again that damage has diminishing returns in multiplayer. Damage isn't the most important thing, when gathering resources can be just as important if not more so.

However, combat is completely optional.

Not really, as proven by your own statement doing things sooner is only for speerunners right?

The are many ways to tackle the challenges dished out by the game and it's been irrefutably proven that damage is more of a luxury than a necessity. This is proven even more so in the late game where stronger items exist which can facilitate encounters like bunnymen, shootings, Winona catapults, etc. As player progress continues damage becomes more and more obsolete. 

What happens after you kill a boss and have obtained all that you wish from particular boss? At what point does damage continue to stay relevant? 

Speed on the other hand is always a sought after commodity. Speed was a important stat Wolfgang had than even his damage 

His only focus now 

Very debatable, as I previously stated he also has a cap while other characters continue to grow and surpass him.

That is terrible advice, why would you not also compare Wolfgang to his previous self. That is an issue I am finding a lot of people are fooling themselves into believing. Wolfgang is supposed to be built upon and further explored, why would he be balanced around, let's say Wendy? Why does Wigfrid perks matter when balancing Wolfgang? Wolfgang should be built around Wolfgang. 

Wolfgang still requires to eat a considerable amount when working out but now he also drains rocks too.

This existed before the rework. It has also been proven that armor that is easily obtainable triumphs armor with a higher defence rating.

This is because when kiting the amount of damage you are going to receive will always be minimal as a player skills improve. Then what one will want is armor that protect the wearer during the times they do make a mistake.

Personally marble is a pain to farm too, Wolfgang has 0 gathering perks.

Grand, people can't argue about what they think ideal balance is because other characters exist?

Actually, why's re you trying to balance Wolfgang when more balanced characters exist? 

This is why I think that when speaking about balancing Wolfgang we should go us on Wolfgang. Every nich already exists, by your logic Wolfgang should just be deleted because he isn't doing anything new.

Im about done arguing here, it was fun for awhile but im not arguing with two people at once, even while im wasting time. I’ll respond once more, and i’ll read your reply, but at this point im just responding then agreeing to disagree.

speed is not versatile, it does two things, it lets you get places faster and lets you dodge with more ease in a fight (sometimes you can even get an extra hit off) 

Let me paraphrase real quick because its hard to explain my problem with your next statement “damage is a luxury” is basically saying “damage is unnecessary” well you sure are correct. Everything short of eating enough not to starve and not getting killed by environmental dangers is “unnecessary” but being able to kill all the tallbirds in my farm in half the time is nice, so is the ability to kill all the pigmen in my farm in half the time. Im not saying a damage boost is better at saving time than a speed boost. But it does make fights a lot easier at every stage of the game. Less armor needed, less healing, weapon durability is a joke thanks to hambat but if you’re using a dark sword it helps with that too. Its “pretty nice” id say. I would also say a speed boost for a character is “pretty nice” but honestly with time and patience neither one really matters. You can achieve anything with an extra day or two. 
“speed is always a sought after commodity”

It sure is, good thing its an abundant resource. With beefalo being tamable, renewable and super cheap, any long distance travel is greatly reduced, and while it can be a hassle to maintain a beefao, its much easier than micromanaging your hunger by eating two meatballs a day and watching it closely so you never lose your speed buff. No one is really better at speed than anyone else if you REALLY think about it. Once you have a riding beefalo any movement speed problems cease. The only times youd really need speed, at least to me, seem to be in a base where travel times are negligible, harvesting resources: see above, and fighting.

what happens when you’ve killed every boss and done everything? Im not sure, more or less whatever i want i guess, its just a sandbox for whatever i want after that. No abilities really matter at that point with all of the tools you have access too. Maybe i’ll set up a few of those boss farms you mentioned, just for fun really. I might as well switch into my favorite relax character and build me a nice megabase. (What was your point?) 

“other characters grow and surpass him”

which character? i must have missed that one in the list, cant be winona because her catapults are only good in really controlled circumstances and take so long to set up you might as well kill the boss the first time without them. And every character can make a farm for most bosses. I havent quite figured out doing it for the celestial champion, but im sure someone will. Cant be maxwell either because the fastest farming method i know to setup doesnt benefit much from maxys shadows.
Im asking you to look at the bigger picture. even without the speed buff wolfgang is the strongest fighter in the game. If he was a new character no one would complain unless they thought he was too simple or made a character irrelevant (which he does to a large degree) and his simplicity is very much a selling point imho. 
 

eats much less than before undeniably, and you’re acting like he has to constantly refuel his workout station, or has to use the rock dumbell. 
 

“proven more easily obtained armor is better than easily obtained armor”

ah yes the return or “proved”. Proved by whom? Speedrunners? Yeah for maximum efficiency you’d only use football helmets and hambats. Four times the protection and double the durability for the cost of mining and replanting six marble trees isnt what i would call “expensive” or super time consuming. Its honestly worth considering as a sidegrade from thulecite even with the speed debuff. Well no more speed debuff, and i doubt you really need a backpack during really any fight. It’ll protect you better during “the times when you do make a mistake” no one is making you use marble armor or a piggyback, but quit pretending like they’re useless because you prefer to stick to football helmets. 
 

honestly why ARE you arguing most of this stuff? His damage is the only reason to play him over say WX or walter. You’re downplayint his damage but its the only reason to play him over other characters. Honestly it just sounds like you think the character is terrible and pointless. His speed boost has never been THE selling point. Lets say they didnt remove it, and they instead buff wx to have a long ler lasting but equal speed boosy to wolfgang, are you still playing wolfgang or wx? What if wormwoods gets buffed to match wolfgangs speed, are you playing wx wolfgang or wormwood. If you’re not considering playing the other characters, then it was never about the speedboost, you’re just being mad that he was nerfed. Because frankly a single tamed normal beefalo with a normal saddle outspeeds or at least very closely matches wolfgang with a walking cane on a road. He doesn’t need the speed boost if hes going to be in the world longer than a single year. scouting the world 20% faster isnt that big of a deal in the long run, and you can tame a beefalo long before winter hits and you have a chance of getting a walking cane.

[HowlVoid]

9 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

 

All of your arguments boil down to "oh you like X, you must think Y is useless". 

Why do you like X, when Y exists.

The most straw man of straw man arguments I've ever seen on this forum.

[Monkey Cups]

2 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

However, combat is completely optional.

This statement is hilarious. Hound waves, depth worms, nightmare creatures, and the many many craftables that require items dropped from mobs prove otherwise. You cannot last very long without fighting anything ever and if you think you can I would love to see you try.

[HowlVoid]

1 minute ago, Monkey Cups said:

This statement is hilarious. Hound waves, depth worms, nightmare creatures, and the many many craftables that require items dropped from mobs prove otherwise. You cannot last very long without fighting anything ever and if you think you can I would love to see you try.

Hounds - Pigmen, frogs, beefalo can kill them early on

Depth worms- you can run away from them until they stop chasing, which actually doesn't take very long or have bunnymen kill them. 

Late game you have killing fields, you have bosses capable of killing the invasive bosses and you can also use them gather resources.

Combat has been optional this whole time and you didn't even know it. Try thinking less narrowly and you'll realize how many options the game gives you outside of combat.

Followers can kill any mob in the game too and there are even characters whose gameplay revolves around followers. You don't actually need to do any fighting yourself to actually kill things. 

[Monkey Cups]

1 minute ago, HowlVoid said:

Hounds - Pigmen, frogs, beefalo can kill them early on

Depth worms- you can run away from them until they stop chasing, which actually doesn't take very long or have bunnymen kill them. 

Late game you have killing fields, you have bosses capable of killing the invasive bosses and you can also use them gather resources.

Combat has been optional this whole time and you didn't even know it. Try thinking less narrowly and you'll realize how many options the game gives you outside of combat.

So where's your 100 day pacifist run? Show me.

How do you intend to get killing fields without access to hounds teeth or clops eyes for a shootius?

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, Monkey Cups said:

So where's your 100 day pacifist run? Show me.

How do you intend to get killing fields without access to hounds teeth or clops eyes for a shootius?

uhh most hound fields from what i've seen just use winona catapults and later on a shootius hes not saying its completely optional stop trying to use extremes to further you argument and use actual good points to counter something

[HowlVoid]

11 minutes ago, Monkey Cups said:

So where's your 100 day pacifist run? Show me.

How do you intend to get killing fields without access to hounds teeth or clops eyes for a shootius?

What I'm saying is that you don't need to do any fighting yourself.

Use beequeen to kill deerclops or tree guards

And for hounds just have some pigs nearby.

As the game progresses most people seek out this methods to reduce the amount of resources fights take. 

All you have to do is keep throwing bodies at your enemies.

[Monkey Cups]

4 minutes ago, Dextops said:

uhh most hound fields from what i've seen just use winona catapults and later on a shootius hes not saying its completely optional stop trying to use extremes to further you argument and use actual good points to counter something

He quite literally said combat is optional. It's right there for you to read.