[Poll] Twins of Terror being used as a weapon

[Skelewar]

I know there's a bit of an abundance of polls lately but with new content everyone is interested in collecting opinions! Some things to keep in mind:

Video made by Guille showing the twins killing almost every raidboss in a lights out world -- Here

In a normal world, the Twins would despawn come daylight and retain their health whenever they are summoned next. They can also only be summoned in the overworld, but lunar island (and I believe ocean) still counts. 

What do you think?

 

[Frashaw27]

I feel like the best course of action is to make them a "Dark Esau" mechanic. In Binding of Isaac Repentance, there is a character that has Dark Esau hot of their ass their entire run, with little room to breathe. Dark Esau damages any enemy they pass through, but he will always be going after the player.. While it can't be really done, one to one, I feel that mechanic would work really well in this case.

It adds unrelenting danger as well as a real risk reward mechanic with the eyes. I feel like this is a really interesting way to use this boss spawning mechanic, but it does need to be tweaked. Though for the twins in specific would be to have each twin do less individual damage to npc/enemies, but have the dps of them being better than a singular eye.

[Dextops]

18 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

I feel like the best course of action is to make them a "Dark Esau" mechanic. In Binding of Isaac Repentance, there is a character that has Dark Esau hot of their ass their entire run, with little room to breathe. Dark Esau damages any enemy they pass through, but he will always be going after the player.. While it can't be really done, one to one, I feel that mechanic would work really well in this case.

It adds unrelenting danger as well as a real risk reward mechanic with the eyes. I feel like this is a really interesting way to use this boss spawning mechanic, but it does need to be tweaked. Though for the twins in specific would be to have each twin do less individual damage to npc/enemies, but have the dps of them being better than a singular eye.

just wait for wilson to pick up birth right while having the twins chasing him

[ALCRD]

52 minutes ago, Skelewar said:

They should be full health whenever summoned instead of retaining their previous health.

This honestly shouldn't even be an option due to how short nights are in DST especially on certain seasons.

If they could be spawned at dusk too then yes maybe.

[Scrubsbarry]

In practice, you'll probably never get an opportunity to do this strategy unless you're in winter where the nights are super long or are in a lights out world. Nights are too short for the twins to completely kill a boss, so I think it's fine as an unorthodox method of dealing extra damage to those bosses, since it can be difficult to pull off getting the bosses to fight each other along with deaggroing off of you.

If you got them to second phase and then resummoned them, they might be faster, but you'd probably have to test if they would be able to kill bosses in such a short amount of time.

[Cassielu]

8 minutes ago, Scrubsberry said:

since it can be difficult to pull off getting the bosses to fight each other along with deaggroing off of you.

The Twin will actively attack other bosses, and you just need a bush hat to hide yourself.

[Dr. Safety]

In a lights out world, yeah it's busted. Nights don't last long enough to do any real damage to bosses via the twins, so I think it is fine

[Mike23Ua]

Aside from the obvious “summon them from portable device” HOW is this any different from me kiting Spider Queen to Moose/Goose, Deerclops to Bearger, Bearger to Dragonfly?

Kiting them to fight one another is as easy as hitting them from a safe distance away and with an Ice Staff and having them chase you to the other boss.

In Deerclops case you can build fake structures which she will pathfind towards to destroy.

Or in Bearger case: you can just pick up & drop flower petals and pick them up again near him to get him to angrily chase you.

The only REAL difference here is the boss can be summoned from a portable device instead of needing to be kited.

But the animated short shows Wortox dropping the device to accidentally summon the Eye that then finishes off Bearger.

These animated shorts tease things you can do in game.. and that’s an actual thing.

[Cassielu]

The possibility of weaponizing twins in normal games is very low, as twins can only exist for one night, and the only meaningful use I know of so far is to kill first-year deerclocps. If you can already ues moonstorm to generate a day of the night, you don't need twins to beat boss.

There is also a recurring threat issue with twins, which should allow you to summon stage 2 twins directly into battle, increasing the potential of weaponized twins, but to what extent we don't know yet.

[Cheggf]

2 hours ago, Frashaw27 said:

I feel like the best course of action is to make them a "Dark Esau" mechanic. In Binding of Isaac Repentance, there is a character that has Dark Esau hot of their ass their entire run, with little room to breathe. Dark Esau damages any enemy they pass through, but he will always be going after the player.. While it can't be really done, one to one, I feel that mechanic would work really well in this case.

It adds unrelenting danger as well as a real risk reward mechanic with the eyes. I feel like this is a really interesting way to use this boss spawning mechanic, but it does need to be tweaked. Though for the twins in specific would be to have each twin do less individual damage to npc/enemies, but have the dps of them being better than a singular eye.

Are you saying the Twins shouldn't aggro onto NPCs and should only accidentally damage them?

[Frashaw27]

2 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Are you saying the Twins shouldn't aggro onto NPCs and should only accidentally damage them?

Yes, but you literally force them to collide with the other mobs, which they will take all the damage of the attack. It's literally just baiting all of their attacks onto a different target. While it's technically by accident, you can benefit from it if you can manipulate them with your positioning.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Frashaw27 said:

Yes, but you literally force them to collide with the other mobs, which they will take all the damage of the attack. It's literally just baiting all of their attacks onto a different target. While it's technically by accident, you can benefit from it if you can manipulate them with your positioning.

The reason it’s NOT like that is that would be pure hell on an Xbox controller, it’s already hard enough to dodge out of its Swoop attack path in time.. the heck with intentionally getting it to hit another boss.

[Guille6785]

3 hours ago, Scrubsberry said:

If you got them to second phase and then resummoned them, they might be faster, but you'd probably have to test if they would be able to kill bosses in such a short amount of time.

3 hours ago, Cassielu said:

There is also a recurring threat issue with twins, which should allow you to summon stage 2 twins directly into battle, increasing the potential of weaponized twins, but to what extent we don't know yet.

I actually tested this and it won't work, when you summon enraged twins into battle they are no longer aggressive for some reason and therefore won't aggro on the raid boss at all, but it's almost certainly just a bug so who knows

[Copyafriend]

I’ll be in the minority and say i never like easy ways to get the strongest bosses to fight eachother. I have nothing against using the twins on deerclops or bearger or moosegoose or any other basic boss, honestly you’re in more danger than the boss is. But theres lots of free revive options, i shouldn’t be able to just sicc the twins on the dragonfly or klaus or the celestial champion. Imho its no different than using the celestial champion to fight dragonfly or klaus for me. The twins i feel like are just too strong for this method to be good for the game. Yeah cheesing bosses exists, and probably will exist indefinitely, but at least theres some effort in using bunnymen, and a risk that you’ll accidentally carry meat near the arena and get shredded. Thats not to say that i like the bunnyman method more, its just that the eyes are so easy to do. Bring five football helmets and some healing and manage to get the eyes to hit the enemy once and its on. Maybe im biased because i play lights out but i dont think it should be so easy to have most bosses in this game either killed or crippled. Maybe they should make it to where the eyes only hurt bosses in retaliation so you have to get the raid boss to hit the eyes, a significantly harder feat, and one you cant pull off with every boss. Youd have to enrage dragonfly and get lucky with slam timing (and maybe get slammed in the process) and they definitely shouldn’t fight the celestial champion, i like my final bosses almost uncheesable thank you.

[HellHeater]

i dont care about their current ingame state but all i know is since they always spawn next to a player its a great way to grief and kill somoene 

i did some tests and if the terrarium is active no matter where you are in the surface(didnt test caves) they always spawn next to random person and if its the twins you know so well its gonna kill someone or more

of course they will despawn in the morning but you can do this in a season with long nights 

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

i didnt saw this in action so idk how ridiculous ii is but why is this more concerning than permafreezing a raid boss with just flowers, fire and iceflingomatic? or how you can get double bone armor without fighting any boss?

if is so broken the fix is simple, make their aggro similar to beequeen's but i dont believe that this is neccesary

37 minutes ago, HellHeater said:

i know is since they always spawn next to a player its a great way to grief and kill somoene

they should aggro the player who summons them

[HellHeater]

39 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i didnt saw this in action so idk how ridiculous ii is but why is this more concerning than permafreezing a raid boss with just flowers, fire and iceflingomatic? or how you can get double bone armor without fighting any boss?

if is so broken the fix is simple, make their aggro similar to beequeen's but i dont believe that this is neccesary

they should aggro the player who summons them

they should but they dont do that 

also griefer can leave the server and then what

[ArubaroBeefalo]

24 minutes ago, HellHeater said:

they should but they dont do that 

also griefer can leave the server and then what

then you wait until daytime

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, HellHeater said:

they should but they dont do that 

also griefer can leave the server and then what

I have no idea how it works on PC but on Xbox, it only ever seems to spawn near the Terrarium it is summoned out of.

I use it as a portable boss health scaling device.

I also think on Lights Out Worlds.. it shouldn’t be able to spawn at all or if it does- it has a timer before it leaves.

These bosses (in their second phase) when resummoned have a glitch to where they just stand still doing nothing too..

They have an “Aggro Range” you have to be near enough to them to be attacked by them.

So if you see on screen message “you feel an evil presence..” Grab your walking cane and RUN away.. they will not continue to chase you down.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

10 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I also think on Lights Out Worlds.. it shouldn’t be able to spawn at all or if it does- it has a timer before it leaves.

 

it would be unfair for that game mode

[Mike23Ua]

9 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

it would be unfair for that game mode

Well I mean, server world Gen settings allow you to disable the Terrarium so- just have it disabled as the default choice & if the player chooses to they can enable.

it would be like putting in a cheat/command code to do something- but your changing that setting ACKNOWLEDGING that your cheating.

I also find it weird if not even disappointing that the newer EoT stuff has world Gen settings but I STILL have no toggles for the Water-Logged Biome stuff.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

Well I mean, server world Gen settings allow you to disable the Terrarium so- just have it disabled as the default choice & if the player chooses to they can enable.

it would be like putting in a cheat/command code to do something- but your changing that setting ACKNOWLEDGING that your cheating.

I also find it weird if not even disappointing that the newer EoT stuff has world Gen settings but I STILL have no toggles for the Water-Logged Biome stuff.

but you arent cheating for wanting to enjoy a fight

scrub fair players because some lazy exploiters wanna easy loots using a legendary pokemon

[HellHeater]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

then you wait until daytime

i mentioned long nights

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, HellHeater said:

i mentioned long nights

 

run, they lose interest in you at one screen, have poor aggro range

but i get that this item has a lot of griefing potential but if we cant have fancy things because of frustrated teenagers...

 

[reallychina]

It is not THAT much of an issue for normal play. You only get nights long enough for bosses less than half a year and eyes have a respawn of 20 days once they are dead. Even then you are not going to get something done in one night and you will have to continue the next night.

 

So you get to pick one or maybe two bosses per year to lower hp and perhaps kill.

 

It's an interesting way to weaken bosses for sure. I do think it should cost much more than 1 nightmare fuel to summon them though. So summoning for free would be the problem i think