Thoughts on Wurt

[Baark0]

Been playing a lot of Wurt recently and wanted to talk about a few things. First off, as someone who eats pretty much exclusively dragon pie whenever I can, I appreciate the extra 33% hunger that Wurt gives. Being unable to eat meat I can't really speak on since in this world I played Wortox for the early parts of the game. Something that disappointments me is that Wurts main perk is just 3 structures. I just wish she had something else going for her. Speaking of those crafting structures, why is the Merm king so helpless? The benefits he provides aren't really worth it imo, aside from Wurt looking way cooler when he's alive. Merms also really aren't that interesting of a minion either, sure they don't panic at dusk, can mine, and the guards don't panic from boss screeches, but that's about it. I dislike doing this since DST is a survival game, and comparing characters like a competitive game is dumb, but I can't help but look at Webber and see how good his minions are, and then look at Wurt, a paid character, who's minions (allegedly) get stuck if unloaded and won't respawn at their house.

Idk man I just wish Wurt was more interesting to play as.

[zacqiang]

Wurt gets a big boost to her stats with Merm King alive, and frankly that's the major upside that she's able to score compared to all the other characters (except late game WX). Wurt is also powerful when you need early game speed roads for a boss rush since she can craft them at a very low cost of 2 rot and 1 reed.

Her army is strong in a sense that they don't require a hefty sum of food to follow (1 Fistful of Jam for 1 whole day per merm), and provides both damage and utility which most other mobs lack in. This in itself is already a major perk compared to other army-type characters. Merms can even mine / chop for their own houses 24/7 as long as it's fed timely, whereby pigs can only chop during the day and squander around at dusk / night. Tbh I would rather use merms than Bearger since merms are not season-limited and they can even fight against treeguards if the need arises.

I do agree that Merm King should give better loot than trinkets, or better yet just let Wurt trade trinkets with Merm King / Pig King for much less gold. Having so many trinkets and needing to swap characters just to trade is a big no-no from me since it technically just blocks the fun out of playing as solo Wurt. Well, at least eggs can be used as filler so I'm not that disappointed.

[Mike23Ua]

The thing about Wurt, is she’s not like Webber- Webber’s entire gameplay revolves around followers that’s his ENTIRE intended gameplay purpose- Where as Wurts just… isn’t? Her gameplay sort of floats all over the place, AND she has so many freaky perks that make up her kit, wearing a top hat and carrying around Starsky in a cave means Wurt NEVER has ANY Negative Sanity drain while in a cave exploring.

Being able to not go insane while wet or have tools slip out of her hands when wet means she can run around throughout the entirety of spring never needing the Eyebrella or any other sort of rain protection.

Webbers ENTIRE Gameplay Is his Followers, Where as Wurts just… Not- so I think it’s quite fair that her followers aren’t as good as his, because Followers aren’t her entire gameplay.

BUT I do think they should fix the dumb A.I. On her followers so they can at least swim or walk under water to return to their Merm homes without getting stuck…

Other then that- you guys are trying to push Wurt into being better then she needs to be… her gameplay doesn’t revolve strictly around her followers like Webber- So obviously she shouldn’t be as good with them.

[HowlVoid]

I have to agree, Wurt is a very boring character to play as (for me). My resource consumption rate has never made use of merms being able to stay up late. I have never liked the idea of super huge mega bases because I play solo and building a base so big would make the game feel empty and lonely (plus who wants to walk a half a day just to get to the other side of your base). I only really use wood for chests and pigs/deerclops/bearger does that plenty. I hardly ever need wood again past years 3 or 4.

Some will say that bearger takes a year to arrive but I don't see how that is even an issue. I don't sit on my hands waiting for him when there are way too many things to do in the first year that don't require wood (morning star/furnace+ thermal stone makes you immune to winter anyways). 

The thing that bothers me the most is that outside her followers she is nothing.  Webber can't do much without his followers either but he has great control over them. She is halfway between Wilson and Webber and she is terrible at being either. 

Then people will say that she is comfortable in the end game because she can carry fish that function identically to thermal stones but last 4x as much. However starcallers/moon callers exists and are super cheap in the end game, making the fish horrible in comparison imo. I think its funny when people then bring up her abilities to recuperate sanity with wickers books or her semi immunity to spring (you can freeze if you don't have the scorch fish) like those things are even good. 

I will always be critical of Wurt because Klei can do better. Especially after seeing the immense amount of synergy Wanda has with her WHOLE kit, everything AND I mean EVERYTHING, in Wanda's kit is phenomenal. Wurt is half baked in comparison.

[Soumyadip543]

I think Wurt needs a little bit more variety when it comes to merm huts she can build, maybe she can build those fishermerm huts from shipwrecked that catch a few fish for Wurt everyday or maybe they can add farmer merms who chop nearby trees and take care of a few plants as long as the king is alive.

[Erineyes7]

I think Wurt just needs something in the early game, some form of momentum that really pushes her to expand the merms reign over the world, because a single hut is not cheap. It's also pretty up in the air if you should have to continually feed the Merm King, and my answer is no. While the stats are well worth it, it's so expensive, and having to go back and feed that lad is so time consuming ( you best hope there's a good spot for him), and then it doesn't even affect the Caves ( I get why, but if you didn't have to feed the King, it would just be a check held with Wurt(maybe idk))

She needs Qol rebalances, not reworks.

 

[Masked Koopa]

7 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Then people will say that she is comfortable in the end game because she can carry fish that function identically to thermal stones but last 4x as much. However starcallers/moon callers exists and are super cheap in the end game, making the fish horrible in comparison imo.

How exactly does that mean anything? The only scenario where a thermal fish and a star caller's staff would be doing the same thing is if A: you set up an area in your base for star caller and still have a small base or B: You're doing a boss fight.

They're not competing for the same role at all, sunfish are a mobile heat source, star caller's staves are a stationary one. It's also important to note that sunfish are affected by the winter spoilage bonus meaning they last for 5 days in wurt's inventory during winter. A bundle wrap full of sunfish will sort out your entire winter. 
 

12 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

ts funny when people then bring up her abilities to recuperate sanity with wickers books or her semi immunity to spring (you can freeze if you don't have the scorch fish) like those things are even good. 

First of all, you can use the same heat regaining methods as you do in winter to stop the freezing, and second of all, you literally have access to a 4 day sunfish after the first summer. The freezing isn't a downside, and it can actually be of benefit if you set up the infrastructure needed to summon rain during summer. It also means you never have to compromise on equipment slots, as the eyebrella will never be taking up your head slot due to rain.


I should also point out that Merm guards are significantly more powerful than anything Webber has in his arsenal. Not only do they have a great dps potential thanks to their high damage per hit, and kiting attack pattern (meaning they get in each other's way much less than spiders do), but they're also outright immune to the minion-scaring effects of bee queen, toadstool and the shadow pieces. They can literally beat bee queen with zero help from the player. Webber's strength is the low cost and aoe heals of his minions, in terms of actual minion strength none of the spiders can compete with merm guards.

That isn't to say I don't think Wurt couldn't be improved, but to say she has no perks outside of her minions or that her minions are lackluster is just not accurate.

[QuQuasar]

The marsh is an entire biome of free cobblestone for Wurt. That is huge, comparable in my mind to Wolfgang and WX's speed boost perks.

Additionally, being able to see tentacles and get 5 Merms from every leaky shack makes the biome a very friendly place for a base. Just stay away from the mosquito ponds.

My take: she's fun to play if you base in the swamp. Which is exactly what she's designed to do.

[Baark0]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

The thing about Wurt, is she’s not like Webber- Webber’s entire gameplay revolves around followers that’s his ENTIRE intended gameplay purpose- Where as Wurts just… isn’t? Her gameplay sort of floats all over the place, AND she has so many freaky perks that make up her kit, wearing a top hat and carrying around Starsky in a cave means Wurt NEVER has ANY Negative Sanity drain while in a cave exploring.

Being able to not go insane while wet or have tools slip out of her hands when wet means she can run around throughout the entirety of spring never needing the Eyebrella or any other sort of rain protection.

Webbers ENTIRE Gameplay Is his Followers, Where as Wurts just… Not- so I think it’s quite fair that her followers aren’t as good as his, because Followers aren’t her entire gameplay.

BUT I do think they should fix the dumb A.I. On her followers so they can at least swim or walk under water to return to their Merm homes without getting stuck…

Other then that- you guys are trying to push Wurt into being better then she needs to be… her gameplay doesn’t revolve strictly around her followers like Webber- So obviously she shouldn’t be as good with them.

If her gameplay isnt followers, what is it then? Vegan fish gameplay? I just don't see what she's meant to do other than merm things. The rain immunity* is nice, but since you aren't immune to the freezing caused by it, it's either only useful during the later half of spring where things are warmer, or if you carry a sunfish around (which im 90% sure spoils faster when wet, despite being a fish, which means more trips to the fish bin). Also while yeah, top hat and starsky negating sanity loss is cool, wendy can do the same thing with just a top hat, and walter and maxwell dont even need the hat, plus tam and lunar crown exist. I think it's perfectly justified for Wurt to be a good character considering she's a dlc character. If I'm paying money for a character, I expect them to be interesting, like wanda/wortox, not wilson but with mildly better pigs + veganism.

[HowlVoid]

18 minutes ago, Masked Koopa said:

How exactly does that mean anything? The only scenario where a thermal fish and a star caller's staff would be doing the same thing is if A: you set up an area in your base for star caller and still have a small base or B: You're doing a boss fight.

Unless you don't plan your winters/summers well there shouldn't be a reason your not standing in one area for more than a day. When I am at base I have my furnace, when looking for the loot stash I place a dwarf star in the middle of the biome, if cutting wood I have a dwarf star nearby, etc. I have never been in a situation where a suncaller staff was cumbersome to use and carrying two thermal stone allows for quick swapping. 

18 minutes ago, Masked Koopa said:

They're not competing for the same role at all, sunfish are a mobile heat source, star caller's staves are a stationary one. It's also important to note that sunfish are affected by the winter spoilage bonus meaning they last for 5 days in wurt's inventory during winter. A bundle wrap full of sunfish will sort out your entire winter. 
 

Bundling and unbundling things repeatedly is something I rather avoid. They do compete for the same role actually, Winter protection. A constant mobile heat source is unnecessary unless you still haven't explored your world before winter for some reason. Having to manage sunfish between multiple bundles, those that are fresh and move them to a bundle that has those that are near dead sound really cumbersome. 

A starcaller and a thermal stone requires 2 slots (if not quick swapping). Sunfish swapping requires 2 bundles, grass/rope, and the sunfish. A boat to refresh the fish also has the downside of only able to being placed at the edge of the biome 90% of the time.

18 minutes ago, Masked Koopa said:

First of all, you can use the same heat regaining methods as you do in winter to stop the freezing,

I stated that. Same problem it has in winter.

18 minutes ago, Masked Koopa said:

and second of all, you literally have access to a 4 day sunfish after the first summer.

A suncaller is available before winter even begins and can last several years, which by then Ill have multiple suncallers.

18 minutes ago, Masked Koopa said:

The freezing isn't a downside, and it can actually be of benefit if you set up the infrastructure needed to summon rain during summer.

I spend my summers underground. There is not much of a reason to be above ground during summer imo. Unless im on a boat which only requires a fridge and a luxury fan.

18 minutes ago, Masked Koopa said:

It also means you never have to compromise on equipment slots, as the eyebrella will never be taking up your head slot due to rain.

1 head slot vs potentially 4 inventory slots to juggle the seasonal fish? I'll pass. 

18 minutes ago, Masked Koopa said:

I should also point out that Merm guards are significantly more powerful than anything Webber has in his arsenal. Not only do they have a great dps potential thanks to their high damage per hit, and kiting attack pattern (meaning they get in each other's way much less than spiders do), but they're also outright immune to the minion-scaring effects of bee queen, toadstool and the shadow pieces. They can literally beat bee queen with zero help from the player. Webber's strength is the low cost and aoe heals of his minions, in terms of actual minion strength none of the spiders can compete with merm guards.

There is a lot of misinformation in this segment of your comment. For one spitters can perform as well as merms if not better because they don't dodge, don't get in each others way and require 0 cost to keep healed during battle. 

Webber's spiders have a very low upkeep cost due to how easily webber amasses meat and frienship last indefinitely. 

Webber can help in battle to further help in the dps and out heal the damage from the boss without any armor on. 

"Without help from the player" isn't anything to write home about, bunnymen can do that in their sleep. The fact that nurse spiders AID the player in such a powerful and unique way is of much greater benefit due to how much power a player character brings to the battlefield.

18 minutes ago, Masked Koopa said:

That isn't to say I don't think Wurt couldn't be improved, but to say she has no perks outside of her minions or that her minions are lackluster is just not accurate.

She is unoriginal and her perks are dismissible. That's is only my opinion based on how I play the game though.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 hours ago, Erineyes7 said:

think Wurt just needs something in the early game, some form of momentum that really pushes her to expand the merms reign over the world, because a single hut is not cheap.

Her early game perk is being able to have an army of worker/fighters in exchange of seeds/carrots. Use them to mine and chop trees and later to fight each other to get fish to build houses where you want and later, when you built your king, that fish is used to get tentacle spots. 

Her early game is fine with her good stats and her veggie perk

The only expensive part is making the king tapestry but because the recipes is just stupid for how useless it is. The only good thing about the king is thar your merms will be stronger and thar you will have extra sanity for bosses. Idk why someone said that the king is her best late game perk (the only late game where the king helps is having more sanity to use the crown) when extra stats are usually an useles perk and more in late game where you have strong armors...

Her best perk is her inmunity to being wet and having extra spoiling time with thermal fish along with having the cheapest army to hire

Wurt is a very complete and fun character. One of the best for lategame with her perks, army and extra builds

 

I would only change the king, i wanna different eating animations depending of the kind of food, an interesting loot table, change the stat buff to give damage and speed or just make it so we can feed a lot of food to the king so he could be alive for many season since right now is useless feeding him unless you will use merms in a fight. Also the tapestry being cheaper or working between shards wont hurt

Fix the danm minions getting stuck unloaded. I would understand that these change will take time if wurt didnt exist but is a dlc character affected by that 

Other than that she is totally fine, just give it a try. Is a balanced character and that might not like people but is very fun to play 

[Masked Koopa]

12 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

A constant mobile heat source is unnecessary unless you still haven't explored your world before winter for some reason. Having to manage sunfish between multiple bundles, those that are fresh and move them to a bundle that has those that are near dead sound really cumbersome. 

I mean, I enjoy having the freedom to being able to do whatever during winter instead of having to glue myself to a base. If you're not going out on trips ever then I can see that not being useful to you, but for me it's pretty useful to be able to go to dfly, build roads, go logging, kill bee queen, further improve my ruins setup or clear ruins and kill fw, go to mactusk, etc without needing to constantly set up a new heat source. I'm not denying that star caller's staff has uses, but mobile heat is a legitimate use if getting a basic base setup isn't your end goal.

17 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Bundling and unbundling things repeatedly is something I rather avoid. They do compete for the same role actually, Winter protection. A constant mobile heat source is unnecessary unless you still haven't explored your world before winter for some reason. Having to manage sunfish between multiple bundles, those that are fresh and move them to a bundle that has those that are near dead sound really cumbersome. 

It's once every 4.5 or so days, depending on how safe you want to play. And you can just rebundle the almost spoiled fish in with the fresh ones. Four fish will last you the entire winter. It's in fact less cumbersome than having your food in a bundle, since it lasts much longer than the average character's stomach size. It's three rebundles per winter, it's really not that bad.

20 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

A starcaller and a thermal stone requires 2 slots (if not quick swapping). Sunfish swapping requires 2 bundles, grass/rope, and the sunfish. A boat to refresh the fish also has the downside of only able to being placed at the edge of the biome 90% of the time.

As said above, sunfish swapping only requires a single bundle. In the case of rope - grass is one of the most needed items for all stages of the game, and I'm generally going to be carrying rope or grass anyway. And if you're carrying literally anything else in a bundle that's moot either way. And given the really long spoil time, even if you're not bundling them, it's not actually much of a limitation at all, and it helps that it's a free thing to use - no sewing is ever required, meaning if you've got a crown you won't even be using anything that needs to be sewn.

25 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

1 head slot vs potentially 4 inventory slots to juggle the seasonal fish? I'll pass. 

3 slots if you're not using bundles or don't want to have rope/grass on you. Otherwise it's 2. And it's your head slot - the thing you're going to be wearing armour in if you want to have a backpack on you. A slot that can also have other useful things like the enlightened crown or miner hat. 

28 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

"Without help from the player" isn't anything to write home about, bunnymen can do that in their sleep. The fact that nurse spiders AID the player in such a powerful and unique way is of much greater benefit due to how much power a player character brings to the battlefield.

Bunnymen need to be reaggroed, because they're not immune to BQ's roar, and often require helmets to not die to her due to their hp being much lower and there being 0 chance of dodging. A fight with a bunch of spiders or bunnies is going to be more involved than one with merm guards simple due to the fact that Bee queen is constantly removing aggro from other minions. And that doesn't exactly help out the spitters either.

And even if we were to grant that bunnymen or spiders are on the same level, merms can also serve as very effective loggers that don't cause issues with treeguards thanks to their high hp pools and good damage, and can also be used to gather flint/nitre from petrified trees, or to mine stone fruit or marble trees. You can also set them up to kill spiders or batsilisks without having to deal with bunnies and their meat hatred and nocturnal nature, as well as serving as a less risky and faster way to deal with frog rains compared to beefalo, thanks to them killing them in two hits and merms not being an extinction hazard. If you set up a flingo they work fine vs hounds as well. Spiders have the issue of eating any meat on sight, wheras merms will only eat fruit and veggies - not even seeds, or honey or royal jelly, despite being able to be fed those. They're a very safe minion to leave near aggressive enemies because they never attack players unless merm king is down, and the things they eat are very uncommon as a type of enemy's loot.

43 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

She is unoriginal and her perks are dismissible. That's is only my opinion based on how I play the game though.

If her perks don't suit your playstyle, that's fine and dandy, but they do have legitimate use in my playstyle, and I seriously doubt I'm so unique that noone else plays similarly to me. The issues with Wurt do exist, but they mostly involve QOL changes like how Merm king takes a ridiculously long time to chew food regardless how much hunger it restores, or how his trades don't scale with fish quality at all, or how freshwater fish don't stack.  If you wanna see my thoughts on that you can check out my Wurt suggestions post. It seems like the issue you're describing is more her strengths not matching your playstyle, which is perfectly fine, but that doesn't make her a bad character. I find Wortox's perks to be utterly useless in every practical scenario other than using him as a living log generator with wormwood + murder, but I'm not going to say that he has no use, or is fundamentally badly made, because his playstyle suits other people quite well.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

50 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

She is unoriginal and her perks are dismissible. That's is only my opinion based on how I play the game though.

Nosoby said she is original.  Is a merm wilson, that is her design about...

About her perks, all perks from all characters can be dismissible. Sad that your playstyle dont let you enjoy wurt

 

Edit. Also her fish perk is very good. It doesnt dimiss the weather entirely but is way more confortable than carrying an eyebrella or a thermal stone. If you think that changing a fish every few days is annoying i guess you hate playing a game where you have to stop for several seconds every few minutes to warm your thermal stone

 

 

Is sad, as always i see a lot of miss information or just bad fame about wurt

I wont waste time defeding wurt again. If people dont enjoy her gameplay there is other character with other mechanics that might please these players

[ALCRD]

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

she can run around throughout the entirety of spring never needing the Eyebrella or any other sort of rain protection.

I beg to frickin differ..

Wurt can still freeze at alarming rate like any other survivor when fully wet. (Which makes no sense imo.)

So I'd hold with that "not needing any sort of rain protection" especially when exploring unless you want to waste time and resources heating up thermal stones in spring..

like in winter but much worse since all your supplies are wet..

Edit: As for Sunfish and needing Bundles well they are more trouble to get and maintain than a Eyebrella imo.

[Owlrust]

I was gonna say something impactful on Wurt, but then I saw the walls of text from other users, got bored, and got tired, so I gave up.

Have a thumbs up instead.

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, Masked Koopa said:

I mean, I enjoy having the freedom to being able to do whatever during winter instead of having to glue myself to a base.

I never stated being glued to my base, please reread what I wrote.

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If you're not going out on trips ever then I can see that not being useful to you, but for me it's pretty useful to be able to go to dfly, build roads, go logging, kill bee queen, further improve my ruins setup or clear ruins and kill fw, go to mactusk, etc without needing to constantly set up a new heat source. I'm not denying that star caller's staff has uses, but mobile heat is a legitimate use if getting a basic base setup isn't your end goal.

You are purposely being selective about what you are choosing to address from what I reply. I mentioned dwarf stars having great viability when doing tasks during winter that may have one in a specific area for a long time. The only task that may not is mctusk, but that is a very quick kill.

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It's once every 4.5 or so days, depending on how safe you want to play. And you can just rebundle the almost spoiled fish in with the fresh ones. Four fish will last you the entire winter. It's in fact less cumbersome than having your food in a bundle, since it lasts much longer than the average character's stomach size. It's three rebundles per winter, it's really not that bad.

I'll chalk it up to being an alternative to suncaller staffs for Wurt. I think its sad Wurt is full of "alternatives" that arent any more effective than the things they are substituting.

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As said above, sunfish swapping only requires a single bundle. In the case of rope - grass is one of the most needed items for all stages of the game, and I'm generally going to be carrying rope or grass anyway. And if you're carrying literally anything else in a bundle that's moot either way. And given the really long spoil time, even if you're not bundling them, it's not actually much of a limitation at all, and it helps that it's a free thing to use - no sewing is ever required, meaning if you've got a crown you won't even be using anything that needs to be sewn.

I don't have anything to say here because it just depends on your play style and that is entirely subjective.

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3 slots if you're not using bundles or don't want to have rope/grass on you. Otherwise it's 2. And it's your head slot - the thing you're going to be wearing armour in if you want to have a backpack on you. A slot that can also have other useful things like the enlightened crown or miner hat. 

Thermal stones don't take up a headslot/bodyslot...?

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Bunnymen need to be reaggroed,

They do this automatically.

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because they're not immune to BQ's roar, and often require helmets

Merms require helmets too. Both can do very well when overpowering bee queen with sheer numbers. Epic screech is something I see argued a lot when comparing the two but its hardly crippling. When their houses are too far or unavailable via walling off their way off the battlefield, they will re-aggro after a few seconds.

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to not die to her due to their hp being much lower and there being 0 chance of dodging.

They will retreat after taking considerable damage.

I have tested battling bee queen multiple times with bunnymen and they all don't require helmets. 

Simply have ten or so with helmets and have them attack bee queen. The nearby hoard of 30 or so rabbits will then aggro afterwards. Bee queen will focus on them (bunnymen with armor) first and will continue to do so as they will be closest to her most of the time. Due to the beekeeper helmets they will have enough time to retreat without dying after which bee queen will focus on another rabbit with a helmet. All of this is occuring while sustaining heavy damage due to bunnymen not losing dps due to kiting.

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A fight with a bunch of spiders or bunnies is going to be more involved than one with merm guards simple due to the fact that Bee queen is constantly removing aggro from other minions. And that doesn't exactly help out the spitters either.

Very small inconvenience though? Just wall in your minions so they have nowhere to go. 

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And even if we were to grant that bunnymen or spiders are on the same level, merms can also serve as very effective loggers that don't cause issues with treeguards thanks to their high hp pools and good damage, and can also be used to gather flint/nitre from petrified trees, or to mine stone fruit or marble trees.

We are back where we started somehow.

Bunnymen are available to everyone on top of a characters own perks. Wanda+ bunny men, Wigfrid+bunnymen, Woody+bunnymen. Even if bunnymen are slightly, and its a very small slightly, inferior to merms, Wurt is completely on her own without them battle wise. 

Resource wise, I have already stated alternatives that can also be added to any character on top of their already present perks. 

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You can also set them up to kill spiders or batsilisks without having to deal with bunnies and their meat hatred and nocturnal nature,

Both of those enemies are nocturnal too? That is not even an issue in the slightest. The fact bunnymen, again something available to everyone, are so close to merms in fighting potential is for concern. Not sure how everyone cant see this? Even if they were sliiiiiiiightly different, you still have a Wilson with a bearger or a Wilson with slightly better bunnymen.

I have never had an issue with their veganism. Paired with the fact that honey is the best raw food means they never attack me. (Outside a few shenanigans, but they have never not been my fault)

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as well as serving as a less risky and faster way to deal with frog rains compared to beefalo,

Have them kill moose/goose? Id never waste a frog rain on mobs.

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thanks to them killing them in two hits and merms not being an extinction hazard. If you set up a flingo they work fine vs hounds as well.

Like any other mob...

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Spiders have the issue of eating any meat on sight, wheras merms will only eat fruit and veggies - not even seeds, or honey or royal jelly, despite being able to be fed those. 

Like bunnymen... And if there is meat after battle, have them kill each other.

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They're a very safe minion to leave near aggressive enemies because they never attack players unless merm king is down, and the things they eat are very uncommon as a type of enemy's loot.

Bunnymen are great for farms too. They also don't wait to be fed when you attacked by something as they aggro onto most mobs. Merms will watch you die 90% of the time and if you don't have anything to feed them at the time, tough luck.

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If her perks don't suit your playstyle, that's fine and dandy, but they do have legitimate use in my playstyle, and I seriously doubt I'm so unique that noone else plays similarly to me.

Neither of those things are being questioned. 

If you have legitimate uses in your playstyle, then great.

If people use her as you do, then great.

My points have always been about how I see her from my perspective.

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TheIt seems like the issue you're describing is more her strengths not matching your playstyle,

Yup. I have been saying that from the beginning. 

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which is perfectly fine, but that doesn't make her a bad character.

My exact words where:

She is unoriginal and her perks are dismissible. 

As in, her entire kit is available to everyone, except Wortox (no follower dps).

From my perspective.

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I find Wortox's perks to be utterly useless in every practical scenario other than using him as a living log generator with wormwood + murder, but I'm not going to say that he has no use, or is fundamentally badly made, because his playstyle suits other people quite well.

This analogy doesn't makes sense because I've never claimed to speak for anyone else but myself, and so my personal belief should have no impact whatsoever on how others view her or may use her. What I claim from my perspective does not need to correlated with whether or not someone else is using her in a way they may or may not deem successful. 

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Nosoby said she is original.  Is a merm wilson, that is her design about...

Plenty of people are saying otherwise, going as far as saying merms are somehow very different from bunnymen.

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About her perks, all perks from all characters can be dismissible.

Haha, no. Hey let me take away Wandas ability to warp real quick and let me know if you're willing to claim the same thing again.

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Sad that your playstyle dont let you enjoy wurt

You're pitting me... Because I'm critical of a character? 

I didn't know you held my opinion to such high regard that you'd cry over it. Strange.

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Edit. Also her fish perk is very good. It doesnt dimiss the weather entirely but is way more confortable than carrying an eyebrella or a thermal stone. If you think that changing a fish every few days is annoying i guess you hate playing a game where you have to stop for several seconds every few minutes to warm your thermal stone

 

Except you don't if you swap thermal stones. One is hot by the time the other has cooled and it still takes up one less slot than your method. 

Having an eyebrella and nothing else to combat an entire season is the most comfortable thing in the game.

I guess you hate having a single item protect you from an entire season.

I can be snarky too.

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Is sad, as always i see a lot of miss information or just bad fame about wurt

I wont waste time defeding wurt again. If people dont enjoy her gameplay there is other character with other mechanics that might please these players

The thread was about wurt, not sure why you're surprised about seeing criticism on the character.

Literally: "thoughts on Wurt", but you don't want to see peoples thoughts on Wurt?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

15 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Plenty of people are saying otherwise, going as far as saying merms are somehow very different from bunnymen

They are different. I never mined marble with bunnymens, did you? But nobody is saying that her design is orginal

 

15 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Haha, no. Hey let me take away Wandas ability to warp real quick and let me know if you're willing to claim the same thing again

You dont need wandas tp to play the game. Play as wurt for a while and tell me if you wont miss not needing eyebrella or not needing to charge a thermal stone all the time

16 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

You're pitting me... Because I'm critical of a character? 

I didn't know you held my opinion to such high regard that you'd cry over it. Strange.

Wtf are you talking about? You said that your playstyle makes  you dont see wurt as a good choice. Wasnt in a rude tone

My playstule doesnt let me enjoy winona. Do you get it? Every character is for different kind of people so stop being so defensive, nobody is atacking you

19 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Except you don't if you swap thermal stones. One is hot by the time the other has cooled and it still takes up one less slot than your method. 

Having an eyebrella and nothing else to combat an entire season is the most comfortable thing in the game.

I guess you hate having a single item protect you from an entire season.the 

So you comeback to base everytime you wanna a charge thermal stone? You dont explore in winter or do you have furnace all over the world?

About having one item to fight spring... you need 3 in early speing: eyebrella+thermal stone+torch/star caller(or you can remove the stone and heat yourself more often with the torch) VS only needing 1 slot that also isnt using the head slot perfect to fight in spring, using the elightment crown, cleaning the ruins/fw/toad with electrical damage, etc and just for the first days of spring, later you dont need anything

Way better than using a head slot even if biased players cant see it

24 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

The thread was about wurt, not sure why you're surprised about seeing criticism on the character.

Literally: "My thoughts on Wurt", but you don't want to see peoples thoughts on Wurt?

I dont care if people dont like her but is sad to see such underrated character just because people loves to repeat things all the time without even knowing what they are talking about and for wurt this happens very often

 

I just answered the direct quotes to me but i have to say that i dont share any of the opiniones or facts you shared to argue with masked koopa, some of them are kinda biased

 

Dont reply, you wont change my mind aswell im aware for other topics that i wont change yours and i dont wanna waste time arguing.

The only thing i can say is that people that dont enjoy wurt just dont play her and people who think she is a bad or not strong character  they should try her since is one of the BEST characters for the long run. I have a megabase world as her and i never player in such confortable way. Is a versatil character that i hope klei will clean up a little so people can stop being afraid of playing her and missinform about her

[Milordo]

5 hours ago, Baark0 said:

Been playing a lot of Wurt recently and wanted to talk about a few things. First off, as someone who eats pretty much exclusively dragon pie whenever I can, I appreciate the extra 33% hunger that Wurt gives. Being unable to eat meat I can't really speak on since in this world I played Wortox for the early parts of the game. Something that disappointments me is that Wurts main perk is just 3 structures. I just wish she had something else going for her. Speaking of those crafting structures, why is the Merm king so helpless? The benefits he provides aren't really worth it imo, aside from Wurt looking way cooler when he's alive. Merms also really aren't that interesting of a minion either, sure they don't panic at dusk, can mine, and the guards don't panic from boss screeches, but that's about it. I dislike doing this since DST is a survival game, and comparing characters like a competitive game is dumb, but I can't help but look at Webber and see how good his minions are, and then look at Wurt, a paid character, who's minions (allegedly) get stuck if unloaded and won't respawn at their house.

Idk man I just wish Wurt was more interesting to play as.

You shouldn't feel bad for comparing characters, not because for "competitive game" reason but because the game has serious issues in balancing and design all over the place, Wurt included.

Wurt is essentialy the child his parents never loved or ever cared about. First failed character from klei and it didn't/don't seem they care about that much about Wurt. You're lucky you're playing her now and not day 1 when she was full of bugs and problems. I will not give my considerations about the character because already people in this thread gave the best description and many, many , many other threads talked about Wurt to death. 

Just saying that and i would appreciate the buff "33% hunger for eating vegetables" to be removed. I know many people liked, don't get me wrong. But it baffles me when Wigrifid doesn't have such buff since she was conceived in a period where Klei wanted more challenge meanwhile to Wurt they sticked this buff so new players don't have problems? I don't know. Her favourite food is durian, so she would be totally okay if she doesn't have that 33%, especially with other vegetables and recipes in the game.

[HowlVoid]

25 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

They are different. I never mined marble with bunnymens, did you? But nobody is saying that her design is orginal

I think that's actually a small difference but that wasn't my point. 

You're the only other person (besides me) who has openly stated that Wurt is unoriginal.

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You dont need wandas tp to play the game.

Also not the point, teleporting is not a dismissible perk. There is nothing in the game that functions the same. No, not even lazy deserter, not even close.

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Play as wurt for a while and tell me if you wont miss not needing eyebrella or not needing to charge a thermal stone all the time

Thermal stones charge automatically if you swap them.

I have played as Wurt and I also had to use an eyebrella for my first spring because you can only get sunfish during summer. 

Even as wurt I'd rather use the eyebrella than have to manage sunfish because I couldn't give up my head slot.

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Wtf are you talking about? You said that your playstyle makes  you dont see wurt as a good choice. Wasnt in a rude tone

My playstule doesnt let me enjoy winona. Do you get it? Every character is for different kind of people so stop being so defensive, nobody is atacking you

I'm not being defensive? You wrote your reply to me being very sarcastic so I did the same. 

"Sad that you..."

"guess you hate playing a game where you have to stop for several seconds every few minutes to warm your thermal stone"

These replys from you are very sarcastic, especially the second one. 

I replied with an equal amount of sarcasm. There may have been a misunderstanding due to the language barrier and if so I apologize.

 

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So you comeback to base everytime you wanna a charge thermal stone? You dont explore in winter or do you have furnace all over the world?

No. Place a dwarf star, then drop one thermal stone. As you explore for the loot stash when you get to the half way point of the biome I swap them. With Wormwood I did place multiple furnaces all over my world at key locations though, although I no longer do this since I made my Worlds donut shape.

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About having one item to fight spring... you need 3 in early speing: eyebrella+thermal stone+torch/star caller(or you can remove the stone and heat yourself more often with the torch) VS only needing 1 slot that also isnt using the head slot perfect to fight in spring, using the elightment crown, cleaning the ruins/fw/toad with electrical damage, etc and just for the first days of spring, later you dont need anything

The speed at which your temperature drops is very minimal after an initial "flash freeze" early spring. You can remove the thermal stone and the suncaller serves the second purpose of being a light source in key areas.

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Way better than using a head slot even if biased players cant see it

A head slot is the easiest thing to give up though? Having an enlightened crown and swapping to the enlightened crown to quickly dry off takes the same number of slots as a sunfish+enlightened crown.

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I dont care if people dont like her but is sad to see such underrated character just because people loves to repeat things all the time without even knowing what they are talking about and for wurt this happens very often

*Sigh*

You know, just because someone disagrees with you that doesn't mean "they don't know what they're talking about". 

Not sure how you can claim I'm being defensive and then follow up with an insult.

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I just answered the direct quotes to me

Wait, you literally quoted me first lol.

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but i have to say that i dont share any of the opiniones or facts you shared to argue with masked koopa,

I... know that?

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some of them are kinda biased

They're supposed to be. I have said that my opinions are based on how I play the game.

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Dont reply, you wont change my mind

I was never trying to change your mind... What... Is happening...

I have been replying to you, you started the conversation with me! Lmao

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aswell im aware for other topics that i wont change yours and i dont wanna waste time arguing.

...

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The only thing i can say is that people that dont enjoy wurt just dont play her and people who think she is a bad or not strong character  they should try her since is one of the BEST characters for the long run. I have a megabase world as her and i never player in such confortable way. Is a versatil character that i hope klei will clean up a little so people can stop being afraid of playing her and missinform about her

I have played her, none of my opinions are based of conjecture. Why does everyone assume that? 

All I did was agree with the initial statement that Wurt is a boring character and people started to reply to me. Then I began to state why my opinion is so but somehow I feel like I've been made the bad guy.

Please someone help me out, is it "sad", misinformation, and defensive for me to state my opinion.

Bro I am laughing.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

26 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I'm not being defensive? You wrote your reply to me being very sarcastic so I did the same. 

"Sad that you..."

"guess you hate playing a game where you have to stop for several seconds every few minutes to warm your thermal stone"

These replys from you are very sarcastic, especially the second one. 

I replied with an equal amount of sarcasm. There may have been a misunderstanding due to the language barrier and if so I apologize

Wanst in a rude way but a serious way. Was a kind thing of said "i wish you could enjoy her"

About the second pragraph, yeah was sarcams comparing thermal stone warm time and changing fish since you said that changing fish is annoying. Nothing else

 

26 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Wait, you literally quoted me first lol.

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but i have to say that i dont share any of the opiniones or facts you shared to argue with masked koopa,

I... know that?

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some of them are kinda biased

They're supposed to be. I have said that my opinions are based on how I play the game.

What i tried to say is that i didnt want to stop and argue about your replys to koopa, i just wrote the direct answens to your replys even if i have things to say about what you reply to koopa. I dont think i said it clear but i hope you get it

And well, biased comments arent useful, we should try to see outisde of our playstyle to see if something is useful or not. I wont say that wx's eating geara perk is useless just because i dont need gears to survive for example

 

Also, not all my commend was about you. I was talking in general. Being you and me spanishtard speakers make things difficult xD

[HowlVoid]

2 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Also, not all my commend was about you. I was talking in general. Being both spanishtard speakers make things difficult xD

Yeah my English is pretty bad and my dyslexia makes it worse unfortunately. Good night.

[Pig Princess]

I generally agree with what @HowlVoid said, but I would like to add my own thoughts and experience with Wurt.

5 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

outside her followers she is nothing

One thing Wurt has outside of her followers is temperature control via fish, and while that is nice to have a single bundle being enough for the whole winter, on default settings (settings of vast majority of public and personal servers) player won't have access to sunfish during the first winter, so Wurt essentially is left with what Wilson would, and the first winter is the most important and impactful one. Not to mention the fact that player needs bundles for that method to work, and while Bee Queen is very doable solo, fighting her requires either 3+ panflute spam with damage modifiers - latter Wurt lacks, and 3+ panflutes on pubs is also not an option, - or using speed-increasing items such as walking cane + magi + road, which means should average Wurt fight Bee Queen reasonably early in the game, it most likely will be late winter/spring (walking cane requirement, magi also takes time to get, marble to be discovered, and all of this player does while also solves other survivial issues not related to Bee Queen). On the other hand, star caller is available basically from the middle of autumn, thermal stone from the start of any season, and among winter closes beefalo hat doesn't have season requirements, is easy to get, and if killing beefalos isn't an option, puffy vest is a powerful and easy to get alternative (which allows to use head slot freely).

To sum up: player can imitate sunfish effect with items available much earlier and requiring much less time to get compared to sunfish. If one builds megabase, then I see how it can be useful, problem is in 99% cases it is forever alone worlds (pubs rarely survive past 2nd or 3rd year) and very, very high day count ones (same reasoning + from what I see mage basers are a minority, and it would be just more beneficial to developers to make DLC character more versatile to raise sales, also I as a non-megabaser would like to have extra option when in comes to character choice).

Ice bream, on the other hand, is slightly better in my opinion, just because it's possible to benefit from it during the first summer, but still both ice bream and sunfish shine the most in multiplayer invironment and/or non-default settings, where eyebrella/snow chester + thermal stone/luxury fan/star caller staff/moon caller staff/beefalo hat are unavailable. Which leads to the question about multiplayer invironment:

In what way can Wurt help team?

Merm king could be an option to acquire specific crop seeds earlier than planting 40+ random ones (just like Woodie can get 4+ dragonfruit seeds skipping RNG if he rushes lunar island; or any player can rush birdcage during halloweed nights for pumpkin seeds, for carrot seeds real life year round), but in practice it's much slower than traditional method, and on top of that Merm king is pig skin sink + Wurt needs go out of her way to collect kelp instead of exploring/building base/rushing ruins or bosses/rushing beefalo/etc., and that doesn't synergyse with her kit to the point that by far more time and resource-efficient option is asking local Woodie to bring her kelp, or even asking Wendy (since she is a good sailor) to pick extra kelp for her. What I mean is Wurt has considerably smaller amount and diversity of available food in the sea (just compare her options to what is availble to Wilson!), and she can't even take proper advantage of merm choppers to build boat in the first place just because swamp is very rarely generated close to thick forest, and Wurt wastes time to bring merms to said forest, whereas pig houses are generated inside thick forests and in case evergreen forest there is delivery of meat for recruitment (spider nests) right near said pig houses (and swamp doesn't even have mushrooms for convenient merm recruitment). Not to mention that Wurt needs to walk back merms all the way to the swamp, and merms suicide on tier 2+ spider nests just as consistently as pigs (what's the point in chopping in dusk when merms suicide on spiders in dusk very rapidly?). So it appeares that weaker pigs are stronger alternative bacause of map generation and resource distribution tendencies.

What else can Wurt give to the team?

She doesn't compete for eyebrella, but anyone except WX can use rain hat just as fine, and Warly (because of fish cordon bleu) or Wendy (because of how easy it is for her to farm tentacle spots for rain coat) do that job much better, + there is Wormwood with thermal stone who can contribute a lot more on top of not competing for clothes.

She can leave all the meat for the team, but thing is meaty stew is the most profitable hunger-wise dish in terms of flat gain (usually around 75 hunger, which is a whole day), and no vegan dish comes even close to that. Wurt doesn't benefit +33% hunger from honey or seeds, other options either force her to resupply more frequently (like bundling stone fruits of farm vegetables), or on top of resupplying more frequently camping near butterfly spawners/mini-glaciers and/or crock pots (for butter muffins and fist full of jams). So in the end Wurt just empties ice ice box/map from any vegetable food and consumes more food than saves.

And last I checked merms don't aggro on bats, so they don't suit for protecting cave entrances.

As for merms guards - they look good on paper and that's it. First of all, Wurt has trouble farming tentacle spots for merm guard houses; it seems like Merm king was supposed to help with that, but he doesn't, and at best only consumes more time. Merm king aside, even if Wurt dedicates her time leading Deerclops to every tentacle in the swamp and spends dozens of days killing big tentacles in the caves, she still lacks tentacle spots badly to the point that building bunnymen for Bee Queen/other boss or fighting said boss manually takes considerably less time. + just like with chopping wood, killing spiders/ruin clockworks/whatever with the help of merms consumes more time and resources than it saves if said mob is at least in 1/3-1/2 day of walk distance. Then there is arguement of being cheap. Yes, one can recruit merms with seeds and honey, problem is by the time Wurt - together with her gang - arrives to the place of battle/resource gathering, she would need to feed merms more in 99% of the cases, + in boss fights merms will calmly watch Wurt being murdered should their loyalty time end. They just suddenly stop to care and walk away, unlike bunnymen, and Wurt needs to feed every single one of them, unlike bunnymen who require only a few to be recruited in order to bring all crowd to the fight, + they automatically reaggro on most of the mobs. For hounds bunnymen also work much better since they don't need to be recruited in the first place.

She can't save resources (and acquire extra gold she lacks from earthquakes) by living in the caves year-round either, because there is no way to refresh seasonal fishes in the caves, and while star-sky is nice, there is only one star-sky on the map + somebody else could need extra storage/fugu version for counterattack more, just like one can't count on personal snow chester to negate summer on public server.

So in the end, while Wurt can offer some QoL things on very high day count worlds, unique challenge and do somewhat good on specific non-default settings (no giants and/or lights out, Adventure Mode-inspired worlds), she just can't offer reasonable pros-cons balance to vast majority of playerbase. With seasonal fish, some bug fixes and Waterlogged addition situation has improved, but she still requires a lot of refinement work.

I want to enjoy playing Wurt, I tried various goals, variety of settings and circumstances, spend many hours polishing strategies, but was disappointed every single time.

Edit: marsh turf I consider worse version of cobblestones (and even more expensive one unless one has reed trap) because it's not eyeplant proof; for Dfly kiting, Klaus, Bee Quuen, etc. there usually is enough cobblestones naturally generated in mosaic, which I'm scouting looking for loot stash anyway.

[Rafi.]

I think that Wurt is very enjoyable during mid to late game, during early, farming resources for houses is a pain, and I prefer to do alot of other stuffs than that. But that's not a real problem, Wurt isn't lacking anything in my opinion, she's just a character that don't have very shining perks during early game, which is fine I think.

Beside her slow start, she is awesome, cool perks that really shines later on (I just want it to be clear, not all of her perks are awesome, the main ones are great, but the wet hands immunity should be buffed I think, maybe the ability to not freeze even when wet would be something that people loves). And her design is awesome, she have really cool skins, alot of people don't care about skins, but personally, it's something that I enjoy alot and having an esthetically pleasing character makes up for something that I don't like about it.

[Horsheen]

I love Wurt, but often times it doesn't feel worth it to use her. Merm huts are far too expensive for what they are. You spend like 10 days gathering materials to kill a boss that you could have just spent 3 days prepping and killing by yourself.

The harvesting is nice, but it's worse than maxwell anyways.

She's super fun and I love her a lot but she's too much of a jack-of-all-trades character, like Woodie.

She's great in solo play, but I'd rather have someone else in co-op

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 hours ago, Masked Koopa said:

I find Wortox's perks to be utterly useless in every practical scenario other than using him as a living log generator with wormwood + murder, but I'm not going to say that he has no use, or is fundamentally badly made, because his playstyle suits other people quite well.

Is funny how people understimate wurt but call wortox op

8 minutes ago, Horsheen said:

You spend like 10 days gathering materials to kill a boss that you could have just spent 3 days prepping and killing by yourself

Did you know that you can repeat the fight with the same merm houses? If you are in a boss run or a world that will be deleted before reaching many days then, obv, dont use merms neither pigs, bunnymens and nothing that requires time.

But if you are playing a long term world that initial effort will pay off since the following fights will be cheap or for free, if you build enough houses to make a bq auto farm, instead of needing to farm the equipement each time you wanna fight.

So i honestly dont understand your comment

Also 10 days? Use merms to gather the resources...

 

8 minutes ago, Horsheen said:

The harvesting is nice, but it's worse than maxwell anyways.

How 3 loggers are worst than 10 merms? Also loggers doesnt deal with treeguards or poison birchnut trees

And now with honey crystals affecting them wurt makes even better combo with warly than before