Overloading a heavi-watt wire backbone

[beeper]

My base has grown and it now has lots of separate systems that if they all turn on at the same time will exceed 20kW and overload the heavi-watt wire backbone. Things are going to get worse when I finish my bunker door shield. My base setup is a pretty typical large generator room that can source over 20 kW and has some smart batteries all attached to a heavi-watt wire backbone. The heavi-watt wire runs through a corridor and transformers are used to split off 1kW and 2 kW circuits as needed. Steam turbines are spread throughout the base, and there will be solar panels in space once the bunker door shield is finished, that will be tied directly into the heavi-watt wire backbone.

Below is a schematic of my typical setup. The remote power on the left with the smart battery represents my generator room, the STs provide some extra power and the AT is isolated from the heavi-watt wire with the transformer. I believe the total load on the heavi-watt wire will be 1.2kW whenever the AT is running.

 

I was thinking about switching to this layout, if it will reduce the load on the heavi-watt wire. The power cutoff would be connected to the smart battery and would disconnect the ST/AT combo from the heavi-watt backbone whenever the battery it is charged "enough", but that since the system is not power positive it will usually be connected.

If the battery is not full enough such that the ST/AT combo is connected to the the heavi-watt wire, the AT is active, and the STs are producing over 1200W, what is the load on the heavi-watt wire? What about if the STs are producing less than 1200W?

[silverbluep]

The load on the heavy watt wire in the last image is 4k; when it intermittently is connected to the grid. Transformer acts like a 4k consumer on the top part; and acts like a power plant on the bottom part. The only consumer in the heavy watt wire circuit is the transformer; which consumes 4k. You will not get the overflow power from the steam generators in your heavy watt wire; the power flow in transistors is one way.

[Ntr1cate]

The point of a backbone is the collection and efficient use of renewable energy while reducing wasted energy.

Since steam turbine in the majority of cases (excluding dedicated nuclear,magma,etc) are a passive source of energy generation as their purpose is highly coveted for heat deletion, they need to be placed on the backbone like because while the aquatuner might tune off, the heat in the steam chamber takes time to be deleted and will continue to generate energy. (the exception is with automation but that defeats the purpose of deleting heat with the exception of magma,nuclear etc)

Since the steam turbine will continually generate heat for a certain period of time, that energy will fill the battery to capacity then when the battery is full it will waste any extra power generation.

Options to mitigate that loss of power is:

*With another transformer sending the excess back into the system

*upgrading your wires to heavy conductive wires (lead from the oil biome or metals from metal volcanos help with quantity)

*Making a secondary backbone like the handle half the load to avoid overloading

Alot of batteries and transformers can result in alot of heat generation and power loss if there is a significant amount so its preferable to avoid that if possible (unless you use steel and stick them in a steam chamber or use a aquatuner to cool them down)

There are other options but this is the issues I can think of atm.

[babba]

Don't know if this helps, but this is how I often play a colony:

A) 50kW line for all tube stations in the colony

B1) 50kW line for all essential colony needs ( oxygen, food). In this line I hook up all solar panels and steam engines, to have a more or less reliable permanent power supply.

B2) 50kW emergency bicycle line in case of a colony total power blackout. If B1 drops a lot in power, then dozens of dupes start to hop on to bikes to provide emergency power to B1.

C) 50kW party line for all the fun gadgets in the colony, which make dupes happy. 

The 50 kW lines often have spreading root branches of 20kW behind them, kind of 20kW consumer blocks. This also makes it easier to identify what is what with all the laid cables.

With transformer sub stations I tend to cable stuff up in the way that B1 always gets and has power, but does not melt cables. I don't play with mods, it would be great if we could colorize our cables and pipes ourself in the game...dear Klei 

If Klei doesn't crash my saves and I can play long time, then I also tend to build dedicated 50kW power generation blocks, where whatever resource boots up and serves 50kW to other lines - These 50kW blocks are hooked up to multiple other lines to inject power if needed, are often on standby and they contain no consumers within.

I normally tend to build too much at once, so I create my own desasters in the game...being excited to see if my emergency measures can withstand my own caused colony crysis.  That is actually the major fun part and reason for me to play Oni. 

BTW my bunker doors normally have their own dedicated bunch of batteries on standby. If the entire base fails in power, then my battery bank per bunker door row is setup to provide enough power to open and close at least once. This makes my rocket silo map feel "real" for me. The "Cold War" immersion is more important for me than energy efficiency, I like raw power... Wuff wuff! 

If Klei would not always break my saves, then I would have had a map built where my batteries/transformers automatically switch off, if not in use.

Putting heat emitting battery banks and building transformer stations beneath steam engines is also fun for me. That happens in my saves files normally beyond cycle 1000 or 2000, if the save file still works by then and doesn't crash.

[Ntr1cate]

14 hours ago, babba said:

my bunker doors normally have their own dedicated bunch of batteries on standby

This, THIS

Man I learnt this the hard way, even building dedicated steam chambers in space for a battery storage/transformer chamber for bunker doors.

When the timing of meteors/night time fails to fill the batteries from solar panels, a separate battery storage has saved my ass so many times.

I wish they would fix either the duplicant priority or add a priority bar on generators for engies buff (for my secondary passive power box) so my transition from mid to endgame isn't hindered so much.

[babba]

10 minutes ago, Zerohayven said:

This, THIS

Man I learnt this the hard way, even building dedicated steam chambers in space for a battery storage/transformer chamber for bunker doors.

When the timing of meteors/night time fails to fill the batteries from solar panels, a separate battery storage has saved my ass so many times.

I wish they would fix either the duplicant priority or add a priority bar on generators for engies buff (for my secondary passive power box) so my transition from mid to endgame isn't hindered so much.

My bases are all about starting and stacking rockets from the bottom of the map. As a little refinement I often add one bicycle in to the wiring per bunker door battery row. This ensures that there will be always some form of emergency power supply to the bunker door batteries, as long a dupe can reach the bicycles and have oxygen there

If you launch rockets from withing a steam room, then one can put the batteries also in to a rocket-launch-steam room to make the steam room even hotter. I tend to also start putting a lot of machinery in to my steam room(s) to heat them further up and to keep heat away from the dupes. You should find things like this in my last played save game here, best is to pause the game if you want to load my attached save in that thread link, because the game will crash after another 1-3 minutes play time or so... I normally need 5000 cycles to have a proper base, the save is only at cycle 951. Wishing you a nice time in ONi @Zerohayven

 

[Ntr1cate]

31 minutes ago, babba said:

best is to pause the game if you want to load my attached save in that thread link

I might have a similar issue with my previous vanilla base, complete crash with no reports so the issue can't be narrowed down. In my case it needed to run for 1-3 cycles before it crashed (lost a nearly finished full achievement base )

[Mastermindx]

On 9/20/2021 at 1:16 PM, beeper said:

If the battery is not full enough such that the ST/AT combo is connected to the the heavi-watt wire, the AT is active, and the STs are producing over 1200W, what is the load on the heavi-watt wire? What about if the STs are producing less than 1200W?

If the battery isn't full and the transformer not disabled, the load on your backbone will be 4 KW no matter how much power the ST are producing because the battery will pull any excess as, unless I'm mistaken, batteries in ONI have no limit to the rate they will fill up.

this is why you'd be better of using a single small transformer which would be enough. (It would be messy to get it started, but as soon as ST starts, you'd be OK). That way, you'd never pull more than 1KW from your backbone (Though you would pull it for longer periods).  But the whole point of those setups being to "smooth" power spikes, I'd say it's ok.

On 9/20/2021 at 1:16 PM, beeper said:

since the system is not power positive

well, if the AT receives super coolant and the ST are "tuned up", I believe this ends up being power positive.

[Sheo]

Using heavy watt wires only in generator room, rest is connected via 1k or 2k wires, no problems here at all.

[Gurgel]

You can feed generator power (e.g. steam turbine) back into the backbone by connecting a transformer to it in _reverse_, i.e. small terminal on the 20kW/50kW line and large terminal on a 1kW/2kW line to the generator. That way, there is no need for any batteries except on the power backbone:

[gabberworld]

3 hours ago, Gurgel said:

as that transformer is 4000 not 2000. better use two 1kw transformers. this way you not burn down 2kw cable

but yeah i used this allot myself aswell

[gabberworld]

if you ask what for is the 4KW transformers . then answer is they are for transfer 20KW to 50KW power line

[Gurgel]

4 hours ago, gabberworld said:

as that transformer is 4000 not 2000. better use two 1kw transformers. this way you not burn down 2kw cable

As this is generated energy, not consumed energy, it does not matter. 

[gabberworld]

23 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

As this is generated energy, not consumed energy, it does not matter. 

it matters, switch power on and off and you see that your cables start burn down

the problem is transformers self use 4kw. they no consume but they need that number. that's why cables start burn down

i notice that first time when i used same method for the solar panels , as they turn off in night it started damage cables when turn on again

[Gurgel]

3 hours ago, gabberworld said:

it matters, switch power on and off and you see that your cables start burn down

I do not observe that effect. Maybe because I do not put more then 2kW generator power on a 2kW power line?

[gabberworld]

10 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

Maybe because I do not put more then 2kW generator power on a 2kW power line?

can be.

 

[Mastermindx]

12 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

Nope. I do not observe that effect. Maybe because I do not put more then 2kW generator power on a 2kW power line?

You also can't have batteries on that line. But yeah... If your generator on that line is less than 2kw, you will be ok.

[gabberworld]

24 minutes ago, Mastermindx said:

You also can't have batteries on that line.

yes indeed.

[Gurgel]

2 hours ago, gabberworld said:

can be.

 

Yes, that would be it. I think there is some exception for loading batteries (not sure), but otherwise you need to make sure to not feed more from a generator than the power-lines can take if there is a consumer that would use it. The the large transformer consumes up to 4kW on the "large" side if supplied with it.  

Hmm. If I put more than 6 large transformer on a 20kW wire and then toggle the power feed, does that damage the 20kW wire? 

[gabberworld]

1 minute ago, Gurgel said:

Yes, that would be it. I think there is some exception for loading batteries (not sure, never used it), but otherwise you need to make sure to not feed more from a generator than the power-lines can take. 

like i tell before much better is use two 1 kw transformers than worry about somesort over power

[Gurgel]

24 minutes ago, gabberworld said:

like i tell before much better is use two 1 kw transformers than worry about somesort over power

You pay for that in 2x the heat generated and more space used. It is a matter of preference IMO.

[gabberworld]

6 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

You pay for that in 2x the heat generated and more space used. It is a matter of preference IMO.

yeah. that heat things can build also inside steam turbine room

[Mastermindx]

6 hours ago, Gurgel said:

Hmm. If I put more than 6 large transformer on a 20kW wire and then toggle the power feed, does that damage the 20kW wire?

If there is something pulling the full 4KW the transformer can provide on the other side (Like an empty battery), yeah, it should overload the 20kw wire.

[psusi]

Try a transformer flipper grid... never use heavy watt wire again: