Black holes in SO

[yoakenashi]

I see. Klei decided to have a little fun. I decide to abandon ship, they give me a black hole. Who knew trying to save your duplicant in a last ditch effort to save you duplicant would mean you lose the game completely.

I know the test branches are susceptible to bugs and issues, but I have specifically chosen not to join the test branches as I prefer stability. Glad I chose the stable release and now cannot play anymore.

Does anyone else feel that the regular releases are causing more black holes than before?

[Smife]

12 hours ago, yoakenashi said:

Does anyone else feel that the regular releases are causing more black holes than before?

Yes.

[SharraShimada]

For now several years KLEI always did what they wanted to do with new content, and when its done, they focus on stability and such. I dont see why they should change this now. Its just a waste of time to pause the development of new stuff, just to fix some issues, and then you fix them again later because they came back with even more new stuff.

You should always keep in mind, the DLC is NOT RELEASED yet. Its early access, and you have to expect problems. They even told you to NOT BUY it, if you are not comfortable with this.

So, we all wait for the DLC to be finished, and some of us are really happy he can go the way alongside the devs and be a part of the process.

[RageLeague]

Well I guess this is more per-issue based. If it's a game-breaking issue like this one, then perhaps this would be addressed earlier.

You don't necessarily know if they know this issue exist.

[cpy]

I'd like to see optimizations instead of new content.

[yoakenashi]

For reference:

On 9/19/2021 at 8:48 AM, SharraShimada said:

You should always keep in mind, the DLC is NOT RELEASED yet. Its early access, and you have to expect problems.

This is even what the splash screen says: "This game is in the early stages of development which means you're likely to encounter strange, amusing, and occasionally just downright frustrating bugs."

I did let my frustration get the better of me; I apologize. But it is good to see from the latest poll results that most people have not been encountered more black holes, and there's still a health interest in new content.

I also found two bug reports on this topic that were recently created. I'll include them just as reference.

 

 

[spike4597]

what is a black hole, may somebody please explain?

[Yobbo]

5 minutes ago, spike4597 said:

what is a black hole, may somebody please explain?

When the game crashes particularly badly it jokingly says that a black hole ate it.

[babba]

I expected black holes to be on the space hex map in the latest release...Now I`m disappointed

[Gurgel]

The escape-pod crash got fixed pretty fast. I think the process Klei uses works adequately.

[mackhuffer]

The game has been extremely unstable for me for the last two months or so and I've been playing SO since April. I'd guess a crash for every two hours of gameplay. I'm not even lucky enough to get black holes; most of my crashes are crashes back to Windows. I've had hangs that force Windows to restart. The last bad one crashed, but Steam couldn't detect it or terminate the process, so I tried restarting. While the restart spinner was running, THAT hanged and I had to power cycle just to reboot.

[Gurgel]

3 hours ago, mackhuffer said:

The game has been extremely unstable for me for the last two months or so and I've been playing SO since April. I'd guess a crash for every two hours of gameplay. I'm not even lucky enough to get black holes; most of my crashes are crashes back to Windows. I've had hangs that force Windows to restart. The last bad one crashed, but Steam couldn't detect it or terminate the process, so I tried restarting. While the restart spinner was running, THAT hanged and I had to power cycle just to reboot.

That sounds like there may be something broken with the memory, the storage or the hardware in general. Is there anything in the application logs?

[babba]

@mackhuffer FYI - I experienced a hard crash, happening for 2 months with the bugs attached save file, link below. These types of crashes instantly rip the game away without the crash reporter showing up. Klei marked it now as fixed - Great. Once I have moved home and the next monthly release is published, I can check myself. Kleis mentioned reason why my save game always crashed, is interesting to read. Thanks Klei 

I actually waited one month, before I posted it in the bug tracker. The game ripping away without crash reporter made me think that it's hopeless to get a resolution from Klei. They did take care... make sure you provide as much details as possible, if you post bugs. 

It is helpful if you file bug reports, you can use mine as a content posting reference. If you kindly ask friendly forumistas, then the community may check/verify your posted bug 

 

[NewWorldDan]

At around 700 cycles, or once I've landed on 4-5 asteroids I start getting black holes frequently.   It's always the same error message (dictionary key missing), so I assume it's a single discrete bug (or a few closely related bugs).

My day job is software engineer.  I'm cognizant of the challenges that developing on this sort of schedule is like.  Objectively, for a game that is under such active development, I think Klei is doing a pretty good job of finding and fixing bugs as fast as they can while pushing out new features.  Let's be realistic about this: the alternative is what I'm going to call the Coffee Stain/Satisfactory model.  That is the most rock solid and robust early access game I've ever seen.  The downside to that is you only get an update about once per year.  Looking back on what the Spaced Out experience was 11 months ago when early access launched, I think I would have missed out on an experience if I had just waited until they're essentially done with the DLC.  

Now, if you uninstall Spaced Out and only play Vanilla, and you're getting this many black holes, then yes, Klei needs to focus on that for a release cycle or two.  I would find that completely unacceptable.  If the black holes are strictly related to Spaced Out features, well, them's the breaks, deal with it.

Lastly, every month or so I see a post yelling for "moar multithreading".  I assume this is from people who have never written a complex piece of multithreaded software.  You want black holes?  This is how you get black holes.  Shut up, let the programmers do their jobs.

[babba]

4 hours ago, NewWorldDan said:

At around 700 cycles, or once I've landed on 4-5 asteroids I start getting black holes frequently.   It's always the same error message (dictionary key missing), so I assume it's a single discrete bug (or a few closely related bugs).

My day job is software engineer.  I'm cognizant of the challenges that developing on this sort of schedule is like.  Objectively, for a game that is under such active development, I think Klei is doing a pretty good job of finding and fixing bugs as fast as they can while pushing out new features.  Let's be realistic about this: the alternative is what I'm going to call the Coffee Stain/Satisfactory model.  That is the most rock solid and robust early access game I've ever seen.  The downside to that is you only get an update about once per year.  Looking back on what the Spaced Out experience was 11 months ago when early access launched, I think I would have missed out on an experience if I had just waited until they're essentially done with the DLC.  

Now, if you uninstall Spaced Out and only play Vanilla, and you're getting this many black holes, then yes, Klei needs to focus on that for a release cycle or two.  I would find that completely unacceptable.  If the black holes are strictly related to Spaced Out features, well, them's the breaks, deal with it.

Lastly, every month or so I see a post yelling for "moar multithreading".  I assume this is from people who have never written a complex piece of multithreaded software.  You want black holes?  This is how you get black holes.  Shut up, let the programmers do their jobs.

I like your entire post, except the last sentence. IMHO players asking for more core utilization + posts asking about multiplayer will probably appear for long time People have their reasons why they post in the forum, everyone`s voice deserves to be heard.

It would be great if Intel pumps out more "P" real cores.Virtual hyperthreading "P`s" are pee

Intel 12900k comes along now with "P Power cores" + "E Baby cores" and then doubles some of the core count up with their virtual hyperthreading. Are they doubling up the "P" cores with hyperthreading

I really hope that Intel pulls their socks up - Apple is releasing great cpu`s ( it hurts me to admit ! ) and AMD is also flying high now since a few years.

Intel`s hyperthreading made sense 20 years ago, when cpu`s got locked, overloaded and jammed up...Nowadays Intel uses it to basically print double the core count on their sales packages. End of Intel rant

What saves Intel is an every increasing amount of larger L1/L2/L3 caches, to perform well in single threading benchmarks - babba`s opinion

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

ONI top performers

[gabberworld]

6 hours ago, NewWorldDan said:

 "moar multithreading". 

this game have multi-thread but it seems it not may fully work correctly in some machines.

for example at my old server it fully works at all the cpu cores. but in game lappy it seems use only 50%

i not even know how AMD handle them as they have different method than Intel

it may be issue with unity self . i not know that. factorio game in other hand have that you can self select how many multi-thread you take

at there i can use full potential with pc

[babba]

4 hours ago, gabberworld said:

this game have multi-thread but it seems it not may fully work correctly in some machines.

for example at my old server it fully works at all the cpu cores. but in game lappy it seems use only 50%

i not even know how AMD handle them as they have different method than Intel

it may be issue with unity self . i not know that. factorio game in other hand have that you can self select how many multi-thread you take

at there i can use full potential with pc

FYI running ONI with 4 real cores. If Intel Hyperthreading is switched on, then the cpu information drops to ~25% with 4 real cores + 4 virtual ones. With Intel its good in the ONI late game to switch Hyperthreading off, it prevents cpu cache sharing to virtual cores. Like a lot of other games, modern and big cpu cache sizes greatly improve game speed.

Hyperthreading switched off, load on 2 cores ( ~50% )

The Win10 Resource manager reads this out as follows:

Load balancing confusion crap % numbers - The basic Win cpu overview, above, shows the real story

The green lines do actually display the game load correctly

Early game, still excavating. 1 colony, no critters, 56 dupes, DLC classic big map

In a perfect world, I wish we had a brand new 3 or 4 cores cpu ( 1 core for the OS ) at 5-6 GHZ with monster cpu caches. Maybe Intel will do that in 5 years, but probably never. Currently they continue playing the marketing game of launching 3-4GHz with lots of "cores", which are of no real beneficial use for playing. Ever increasing cpu cache sizes make up for their low GHz count.

An Intel 12900K without all on the "die junk" would be great, 4 max cores @ 6 GHz, no baby cores, no hyperthreading, no integrated graphics and with giant cpu caches. That would also be a perfect driver power house for the latest 3D graphic cards. I better stop dreaming Praying for more great AMD stuff to come, Apple will keep Intel and AMD busy.

[gabberworld]

4 hours ago, babba said:

FYI running ONI with 4 real cores. If Intel Hyperthreading is switched on, then the cpu information drops to ~25% with 4 real cores + 4 virtual ones. With Intel its good in the ONI late game to switch Hyperthreading off, it prevents cpu cache sharing to virtual cores. Like a lot of other games, modern and big cpu cache sizes greatly improve game speed.

Hyperthreading switched off, load on 2 cores ( ~50% )

The Win10 Resource manager reads this out as follows:

Load balancing confusion crap % numbers - The basic Win cpu overview, above, shows the real story

The green lines do actually display the game load correctly

Early game, still excavating. 1 colony, no critters, 56 dupes, DLC classic big map

In a perfect world, I wish we had a brand new 3 or 4 cores cpu ( 1 core for the OS ) at 5-6 GHZ with monster cpu caches. Maybe Intel will do that in 5 years, but probably never. Currently they continue playing the marketing game of launching 3-4GHz with lots of "cores", which are of no real beneficial use for playing. Ever increasing cpu cache sizes make up for their low GHz count.

An Intel 12900K without all on the "die junk" would be great, 4 max cores @ 6 GHz, no baby cores, no hyperthreading, no integrated graphics and with giant cpu caches. That would also be a perfect driver power house for the latest 3D graphic cards. I better stop dreaming Praying for more great AMD stuff to come, Apple will keep Intel and AMD busy.

there is some leaks that upcoming intel is most powerfull than all others in marked, they beat poth, mac and amd.but amd is building his cpu too soo dunno how long intel beats

but its something todo also because off ddr5

[cpy]

Anyone on mac can confirm it runs best on M1?