Do we need an indicator for those in the caves?

[1bubbainpa]

It’s amazing that a small QoL change like this gets so much backlash and discussion.

I don’t see a problem with it.

[MondayNight]

4 minutes ago, 1bubbainpa said:

It’s amazing that a small QoL change like this gets so much backlash and discussion.

I don’t see a problem with it.

Because has the potential of lowering the "quality of life" for un-moderated vanilla pub goers by giving griefers yet another tool to use.

[Cheggf]

17 minutes ago, 1bubbainpa said:

It’s amazing that a small QoL change like this gets so much backlash and discussion.

I don’t see a problem with it.

How does this improve the quality of your life?

[BezKa]

On one hand, it wouldn't hurt to have it. There's no point in walking around looking for the people who refuse to answer in chat (for whatever reason) only to realise you're playing with a bunch of rushers who're gonna stay in the caves for next 15 days and have no interest on setting up a base with you. 

On the other, outside of some very specific situations, when would they be actually useful? I somehow doubt there's enough uses for knowing if someone is in overworks or caves to warrant an indicator. Most times you'll be focused on people who are currently with you, and not those that couldn't bother to speak up about their location or work with the team.

[AllFunNGamez]

If you truly think about your reasoning behind this it could counter prevent griefers for example. You are worried griefers are going to find you in the caves but you never know if someone is going to come and ransack your base while you are in the overworld now you would know if the caves are clear of people in order to go back down. 

So it is actually a reverse of your excuse it could help griefers. If anything it could do just the opposite. 

I really think that the in this sort of change would only impact just griefers I really cannot buy that I am sorry. I really just do not see it what so ever. 

Overall this has just made me feel bad for all the people who join the public servers only to watch their entire base destroyed. It makes me want to host a public server and have an antigriefing mod on there so anyone can join and have a peaceful playthrough.

[Spontaneou5]

1 hour ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

If OP proposal would be implemented, there's an easy way to tell if base is in caves: when player shown being in Cave (via specific scoreboard icon) for significant amount of time, let's say during Winter/Spring, is not permanently wearing Miner Hat/Moggles/Lantern, most likely he/she is tending a base under natural shaft-light or using Starcallers. Am primarily writing about late-game pubs, where only 1-3 regular high-days count players remain active. A capable griefer wanting to end others' mid-to-end game runs, like Clouds, Master, etc (EU servers), could make very good use of such potential game feature, and go directly into Cave-shard roaming, not wasting time outside.

So knowing whether players are on the surface or in the caves will give an extremely small number of griefers an infinitesimally small advantage in griefing the bases of an exceptionally niche sector of players. Not a very persuading argument. 

Let's say a griefer joins your game. They search for the base on the surface, but can't find it. They then search the caves for your base, finds it, and griefs it. 

Now let's consider if Klei were to add this feature to the game. The griefer joins your game. They see that all of the players are in the caves and concludes that there must be a cave base. They search the caves, finds your base, and griefs it. 

The only difference between the two scenarios is that the griefer took a little less time to find and grief your base in the caves. What does it matter if a griefer takes more or less time to find your base? If you choose to play in pubs, you are destined to experience griefers at one time or another.

The griefer argument that you have constructed obviously alludes to experienced, knowledgeable, and dedicated griefers who are able to survive all seasons and elements of the game. So, taking a little more or less time to find your base does not at all affect the possibility of the griefer's success in finding and griefing your base. 

 

[MondayNight]

4 hours ago, Spontaneou5 said:

So knowing whether players are on the surface or in the caves will give an extremely small number of griefers an infinitesimally small advantage in griefing the bases of an exceptionally niche sector of players. Not a very persuading argument. 

Let's say a griefer joins your game. They search for the base on the surface, but can't find it. They then search the caves for your base, finds it, and griefs it. 

Now let's consider if Klei were to add this feature to the game. The griefer joins your game. They see that all of the players are in the caves and concludes that there must be a cave base. They search the caves, finds your base, and griefs it. 

The only difference between the two scenarios is that the griefer took a little less time to find and grief your base in the caves. What does it matter if a griefer takes more or less time to find your base? If you choose to play in pubs, you are destined to experience griefers at one time or another.

The griefer argument that you have constructed obviously alludes to experienced, knowledgeable, and dedicated griefers who are able to survive all seasons and elements of the game. So, taking a little more or less time to find your base does not at all affect the possibility of the griefer's success in finding and griefing your base. 

 

If only that was the case. Named griefers are the most notorious for persistence and dedication. In fact nowadays seems almost every pub has, over the course if its run(s), at least one griefer/troll. At least. Even if it was "an infinitesimally small advantage in griefing" is still 1 advantage-too-many. As counterbalance, the bon such feature can provide is not only for "an exceptionally niche sector of players" as well (personal private servers where people don't write in chat a simple answer to a trivial question because "are busy eating irl" or the like), but already has, as stated numerous times by now, alternatives (VoIP programs, showing-location mods). Again: what is the concrete benefit of knowing where players are, shard-wise, in general multiplayer populace?

[Mysterious box]

7 hours ago, AllFunNGamez said:

If you truly think about your reasoning behind this it could counter prevent griefers for example. You are worried griefers are going to find you in the caves but you never know if someone is going to come and ransack your base while you are in the overworld now you would know if the caves are clear of people in order to go back down. 

So it is actually a reverse of your excuse it could help griefers. If anything it could do just the opposite. 

I really think that the in this sort of change would only impact just griefers I really cannot buy that I am sorry. I really just do not see it what so ever. 

Overall this has just made me feel bad for all the people who join the public servers only to watch their entire base destroyed. It makes me want to host a public server and have an antigriefing mod on there so anyone can join and have a peaceful playthrough.

While some people aren't nice about it the backlash comes from the fact the feature's only purpose as far as I've read in this thread is to find people who don't want to be found which does seem unfair.

Also it seems like the fact this would make griefing easier is being trivialized simply for the fact it doesn't effect you and is convenient to you specifically which may come off as selfish even if not the intent.

[Captain_Rage]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

While some people aren't nice about it the backlash comes from the fact the feature's only purpose as far as I've read in this thread is to find people who don't want to be found which does seem unfair.

Because there is a baffling amount of suggestions in the forums that some players insist on (like above) that are not in line with the game or simply bizarre. Under my impression users only get vocal when strange ideas escalate and start flooding the forums. Look in the suggestion subforum and ask yourself if the game would be "better" with even a fraction of those ideas, if they are even feasible to begin with (and as for this suggestion it would work poorly on servers with multiple cave shards, and certainly ruin the immersion when players can / want to hide inside multiple caves).

Since you seem to want to compromise and taint the uncompromised wilderness survival experience and the immersion that comes with it you are free to use any wonky / silly / goofy mod that is readily available in the workshop. The feature in the title is certainly nothing that "we" need, as the title says. The game plays beyond fine without it.

There used to be small nitpicks in the game that I personally wanted to see changed but I realize that other players wouldn't agree or care, or that they simply wouldn't fit the game in a neat way, so there was no reason for me to start forcing them upon others (unless they made sense to include in the game; then I would post my feedback or share my opinions).

[BeeClops]

I think It's obvious that people in favor of this don't play pubs much; when everyone tells you griefers are a real thing on pubs you have to start believing it eventually. 

I share others view, I think it doesn't add much good, if anything it makes it easier for randoms/griefers to know what you're up to, and I don't see why that would be a good thing. If there are people I want to play or do stuff together with we just talk about it openly.

And as it has been said, if you play private games, and you are if you suggest this, then there are mods that serve this exact purpose, showing other players exact location.

 

[clickrush]

Again, the game apparently has a solution to friends finding out each other’s locations quickly and conveniently. If both are holding a compass, their location is apparently shown. I don’t know what happens if one party is in a cave. But I assume it can be extrapolated that they are in the caves if they are not shown.

so I assume one would simply write „compass“ in chat, then all friends equip it, for.. a second or two? Then everyone knows the locations.

It’s in fact a perfect solution, because it’s based on consent.

[BeeClops]

3 minutes ago, clickrush said:

Again, the game apparently has a solution to friends finding out each other’s locations quickly and conveniently. If both are holding a compass, their location is apparently shown. I don’t know what happens if one party is in a cave. But I assume it can be extrapolated that they are in the caves if they are not shown.

so I assume one would simply write „compass“ in chat, then all friends equip it, for.. a second or two? Then everyone knows the locations.

It’s in fact a perfect solution, because it’s based on consent.

Even forgot about those, yup they are a great vanilla solution to this, and they work just fine in caves too.

[Mysterious box]

6 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

Because there is a baffling amount of suggestions in the forums that some players insist on (like above) that are not in line with the game or simply bizarre. Under my impression users only get vocal when strange ideas escalate and start flooding the forums. Look in the suggestion subforum and ask yourself if the game would be "better" with even a fraction of those ideas, if they are even feasible to begin with (and as for this suggestion it would work poorly on servers with multiple cave shards, and certainly ruin the immersion when players can / want to hide inside multiple caves).

Since you seem to want to compromise and taint the uncompromised wilderness survival experience and the immersion that comes with it you are free to use any wonky / silly / goofy mod that is readily available in the workshop. The feature in the title is certainly nothing that "we" need, as the title says. The game plays beyond fine without it.

There used to be small nitpicks in the game that I personally wanted to see changed but I realize that other players wouldn't agree or care, or that they simply wouldn't fit the game in a neat way, so there was no reason for me to start forcing them upon others (unless they made sense to include in the game; then I would post my feedback or share my opinions).

It seems your confused about something this is addressed to me as tho I'm supporting the idea I believe you should re read my post.

[AllFunNGamez]

8 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

While some people aren't nice about it the backlash comes from the fact the feature's only purpose as far as I've read in this thread is to find people who don't want to be found which does seem unfair.

Also it seems like the fact this would make griefing easier is being trivialized simply for the fact it doesn't effect you and is convenient to you specifically which may come off as selfish even if not the intent.

I understand I am in no way saying I MUST HAVE THIS or anything I just enjoy posting some cool ideas I have even if they get shot down.

I understand the fear of griefers but that is coming from my point of view who has never experienced heavy griefing in DST. 

I think coming from a public server point of view it would be a totally different approach to where the least way they can find you the better. But I think with everyone giving me the same reason why they do not enjoy this idea it all revolves around griefing there for I think that is the true problem here. What if Klei decides to add GPS built into DST imagine the outrage from the community if they are already working with griefers as it is.

 

****

To the other posts I really think its nice for Klei to see posts like these because it helps them realize the problem they are having with griefers in their servers. But overall if we want the game to get better and have minor changes that could be great but also accidently help griefers does that mean we should never improve or allow things to get better? In that sense we are basically at the mercy of griefers.

So overall I really do think the biggest thing we are overlooking here is how many people play DST while always looking over their shoulder and it makes me wonder if Klei needs to address an issue behind this. Wether it be anti griefing protection until you ally with someone in your world or just anti griefing protection mods on their servers.

 

[clickrush]

1 minute ago, AllFunNGamez said:

I understand I am in no way saying I MUST HAVE THIS or anything I just enjoy posting some cool ideas I have even if they get shot down.

I understand the fear of griefers but that is coming from my point of view who has never experienced heavy griefing in DST. 

I think coming from a public server point of view it would be a totally different approach to where the least way they can find you the better. But I think with everyone giving me the same reason why they do not enjoy this idea it all revolves around griefing there for I think that is the true problem here. What if Klei decides to add GPS built into DST imagine the outrage from the community if they are already working with griefers as it is.

 

Again, there is GPS in the game already through compasses.

But generally I agree. If public servers have such a griefing problem, then that is a separate issue. Opening a new thread for this might be interesting.