Knowledge gathering: plant mutations

[KonfigSys]

I see the problem. The r/a waste tile has very high radiation (I got it to 500rad) but for some reasons this radiation does not propagate to the next tile, so it does not go through the hydroponic tile. Of course it can be above the hydroponic tile but not below but this setup was for dupes running without a need to switch off the loop. And yes, I used uranium or gold hydroponic tiles.

It consumes a lot of energy also. So I guess shinebugs and ranchers is a way to go....

[ghkbrew]

14 hours ago, KonfigSys said:

I see the problem. The r/a waste tile has very high radiation (I got it to 500rad) but for some reasons this radiation does not propagate to the next tile

There are two sources of radiation there. The nuclear waste itself and the nuclear contaminant germs on it.

Nuclear waste will cause radiation in the tile it occupies as well up to two tiles away. It's 16.5 rads per ton in the actual waste and it falls off for the surrounding tiles. Interestingly, this radiation is *not* blocked or absorbed by tiles like most other sources.

Nuclear contaminates will cause radiation only in the tile they occupy (and not in surrounding tiles). At a rate of about 1 rad per 1000 germs.

When you combine the two sources the radiation is summed. I think most of your radiation here is from germs, which is why there is so little on the plants. If you want to take this route you need to put the germy fluid directly on top of the plants in a thin layer.

[KonfigSys]

 

I have tried to find usage for the mutated plants. It is fun game mechanics but how good for colony efficiency are these mutations?

Space saving is not the major advantage as there is generally enough room to build farms. Unless it is a very small asteroid but then you need to build one-two ranches (shinebugs and grubgrub) and it will eat the limited space.

Do you have ideas? I assumed shinebugs as a source of 25 rad as currently it is the only good option (wheezeworts would have been the winner if there had been ways to increase worts).

 

• Easygoing (known seeds: Bristle Blossom, Dusk Cap, Bog Bucket)
  • Minimum Radiation: +25 rads/cycle
  • Viable Temperature Range: +50%
  • Yield Amount: -25%
  • Fertilizer Usage: -50%

Only if you cannot maintain the proper temperature; also can be used well with plants with wide temperature ranges to make them even wider and low temp ones to extend their ranges to plus temperatures.

 

• Bountiful (known seeds: Meelwood, Thimble Reed)
  • Minimum Radiation: +25 rads/cycle
  • Yield Amount: +100%
  • Harvest Duration: +400%
  • Light: +200 lux
  • Fertilizer Usage: +20%

as you most probably use shinebugs for 25 rad, the 200lux is easy to reach but harvest duration 400%

Does it mean dups require 4 times longer to harvest it? Twice increased output is tempting.

• Blooming (known seeds: Meelwood)
  • Minimum Radiation: +25 rads/cycle
  • Decor: +20

There are many other ways to increase decor without a need to create 25rad. I do not see much usage.

• Exuberant (known seeds: Dusk Cap, Meelwood)
  • Minimum Radiation: +25 rads/cycle
  • Life Cycle: -75%
  • Fertilizer Usage: +50%
  • Bonus Crop: +4000g Rot Pile
  • Food Poisoning on crop: 10,000 germs
  • Darkness

Darkness <> shinebugs. It can be good if there are ways to increase worts in the game.

• Specialized (known seeds: Bristle Blossom)
  • Minimum Radiation: +25 rads/cycle
  • Viable Temperature Range: -50%
  • Yield Amount: +50%

just increase the normal farm size by 50% and you do not need to have hassles with 25 rad

so higher yield = less time for dups to harvest per kkal.

• Superspecialized (known seeds: Meelwood)
  • Minimum Radiation: +25 rads/cycle
  • Viable Temperature Range: -80%
  • Yield Amount: +100%

same here; unless you have space restrictions for your farms in your colony. Very tight range; if temp varies, you may have downtime exceeding the benefits of 100% yield increase.

• Wildish (known seeds: Meelwood)
  • Minimum Radiation: +25 rads/cycle
  • Fertilizer Usage: -90%
  • Life Cycle: +350%

I do not see any benefits compared to pip planted

• Juicy Fruits (known seeds: Meelwood)
  • Minimum Radiation: +25 rads/cycle
  • Fertilizer Usage: +25%
  • ??Maximum OLDAGE??: -100%
  • Self-harvest On Grown

this one is good in my view to reduce the dup time for harvesting. Still there is some dup time to maintain shinebug ranches (should be less time than to harvest). Winner?

• Licey (known seeds: Meelwood)
  • Minimum Radiation: +25 rads/cycle
  • Fertilizer Usage: +25%
  • Bonus Crop: +600 kcal Meal Lice

also is good one in my view if applied to short cycle crops. Lice is well needed for high end food (+6); am I kidding you?

• Leafy (known seeds: Meelwood)
  • Minimum Radiation: +25 rads/cycle
  • Light: +1000 lux
  • Life Cycle: -50%
  • Fertilizer Usage: +25%

1000lux is minor problem but a normal farm can be enlarged to have same effect without a need for 25rad

 

And by the way (not directly related to ONI). Klei killed our team play in DST with the farming update. Previously you plant and then you can venture into the caves and can harvest anytime when you return. With the new update you are tied up to your base farm as you need to constantly maintain it. It was a short fun to try the new feature but then when the novelty vanished, the created inefficiency killed the game play.

[blueberry pi]

4 hours ago, KonfigSys said:

• Exuberant (known seeds: Dusk Cap, Meelwood)
  • Minimum Radiation: +25 rads/cycle
  • Life Cycle: -75%
  • Fertilizer Usage: +50%
  • Bonus Crop: +4000g Rot Pile
  • Food Poisoning on crop: 10,000 germs
  • Darkness

Darkness <> shinebugs. It can be good if there are ways to increase worts in the game.

does abyss bugs emit radiation?, if so a bit of ranching to get to this morph and it's diet is not so bad, "They eat Abyssalite, Barbeque, Meat, Phosphorus and Stuffed Berry."  Abyssalite is plentiful if you are not melting it to tungsten, phosphorus from melting phosphorite from drecko ranches which is renewable, maybe not meat or barbeque. This morph doesn't emit light, so we can use exuberant that takes way less fertilizer and time.

the problem is all the morphs to go through.

shine bug, gristle berry -> sun bug, fried mushroom -> royal bug, pepper bread -> coral bug, stuffed berry -> azure bug, phosphorus -> abyss bug

when not fed they will not be able to lay an egg, so you can control the eggs that are entering the farm to avoid other shine bugs that produce light, it is actually quite complicated, i don't know if it's worth for you.

[KonfigSys]

2 hours ago, blueberry pi said:

does abyss bugs emit radiation?, if so a bit of ranching to get to this morph and it's diet is not so bad, "They eat Abyssalite, Barbeque, Meat, Phosphorus and Stuffed Berry."  Abyssalite is plentiful if you are not melting it to tungsten, phosphorus from melting phosphorite from drecko ranches which is renewable, maybe not meat or barbeque. This morph doesn't emit light, so we can use exuberant that takes way less fertilizer and time.

the problem is all the morphs to go through.

shine bug, gristle berry -> sun bug, fried mushroom -> royal bug, pepper bread -> coral bug, stuffed berry -> azure bug, phosphorus -> abyss bug

when not fed they will not be able to lay an egg, so you can control the eggs that are entering the farm to avoid other shine bugs that produce light, it is actually quite complicated, i don't know if it's worth for you.

I knew about abyss bugs and their abyssalite died is a plus (at least till you run out of plentiful abyssalite reserves) but morphing is a hassle and at the end it is a matter mainly the space savings.

 

I consider that Klei decided to make another wing of the farming equation.

We have standard plants and then we have pip planted ones. It leads to higher (4 times) growth time and consequently more space but care free /resource free farms. 

The mutated plants on the other hand generally reduce the space required in exchange for more dupe time/resources - to feed&breed shinebugs or electricity.

[Technoincubus]

99 of this mutations are worthless. Minimum radiation and on most of them? Just setting up conditions for their growth alone is not worth the hassle. I will just grow several normal ones. It's like Syringe situation once again. Nobody used wolframite syringes because even waiting for slimelung to end naturally was easier.

[Electroely]

Are arbor acorns still unable to mutate? They recently removed the part of the tooltip that says Saturn Critter Traps can mutate, but it's still there for Arbor trees.

Their resistance is relatively high, so it would take a lot of effort for me to mutate them. I'd like to know if they *can* mutate before trying it...

 

2 hours ago, Technoincubus said:

99 of this mutations are worthless. Minimum radiation and on most of them? Just setting up conditions for their growth alone is not worth the hassle. I will just grow several normal ones. It's like Syringe situation once again. Nobody used wolframite syringes because even waiting for slimelung to end naturally was easier.

I think a lot of the mutations would be much more valuable had it not been for the minimum radiation requirement. So far I found use in a few of them - I created a dupe-free food farm for the resin tree via Juicy Fruits grubfruit and I've increased my Drecko ranching efficiency (both fertilizer and space-wise) via Exuberant & Easygoing mealwood & bristle blossoms.

Getting radiation for the other mutations doesn't really seem worthwhile - our options for weak radiation include shine bugs (which take a lot of infrastructure and can be inconsistent at lower densities), wheezeworts (which take up farm plots and are limited in numbers), and radioactive contaminant shenanigans (weird to set up and doesn't work alongside grubgrubs). Many of the mutations already have their own drawbacks on top of having to actually obtain the mutated seeds in the first place - I don't think Blooming, for example, needs to have a drawback since it already doesn't drop seeds and took effort to mutate.

[Technoincubus]

For me that readiaion reqirement is like air critter lure or fish trap - I will just never ever use it because they lack function. Any sane human being will just wait for egg and hatch it rather than to bother with critter movement. Rad requirement means I will never even consider creating mutations. They are not worth it.

[KonfigSys]

well, I questioned players at testing time if we really want to remove the 25rad requirements to make the mutated plants very useful. 

it is clear that without the 25 rad requirement, mutated plants are useful. Also there was an option to make radioactive tiles/shiftplates to have a simple mutated farm solution.

Making a simple 25rad setup turns out to be a problem. But many players-testers really like the idea to have this problem to boost creativity.

I consider it will be some mods for this 25rad (either removing the requirement or introducing radioactive shiftplates).

[nessumo]

On 5/15/2021 at 12:49 PM, KonfigSys said:

same here; unless you have space restrictions for your farms in your colony. Very tight range; if temp varies, you may have downtime exceeding the benefits of 100% yield increase.

•  

Don't think about space, but resources. Superspecialized Thimble Reeds are huge deal.

[KonfigSys]

11 hours ago, nessumo said:

Don't think about space, but resources. Superspecialized Thimble Reeds are huge deal.

pip planted thimble reeds do not require anything but harvesting. No shinebug ranches, no polluted water (a lot if not pip planted).

I am surprised somebody things about mutated thimble reeds.

as the farming is only 2 cycles; pipe planted 8 cycles are well acceptable. Also seeds of thimble reeds are excellent for fish feeding due to short cycle (and resource free if pip planted); one more point not to use it mutated.

[Orzelek]

2 hours ago, KonfigSys said:

pip planted thimble reeds do not require anything but harvesting. No shinebug ranches, no polluted water (a lot if not pip planted).

I am surprised somebody things about mutated thimble reeds.

as the farming is only 2 cycles; pipe planted 8 cycles are well acceptable. Also seeds of thimble reeds are excellent for fish feeding due to short cycle (and resource free if pip planted); one more point not to use it mutated.

After reading here a bit I have an impression that existence of pip planted things is allowing us to ignore a lot of mutations and few other game mechanics. I didn't use pip's before but I get now why people wanted to make sure they are guaranteed on classic start.

[nessumo]

4 hours ago, KonfigSys said:

pip planted thimble reeds do not require anything but harvesting. No shinebug ranches, no polluted water (a lot if not pip planted).

 

If you have whole map, thousands cycles and don't mind abusing pips - sure. Some people prefer to use game mechanics, not avoid them

[KonfigSys]

21 hours ago, nessumo said:

If you have whole map, thousands cycles and don't mind abusing pips - sure. Some people prefer to use game mechanics, not avoid them

well, the beauty is the game allows anyone to choose his/her own playstyle. 

I did the nuclear reactor just to see how it works; I did mutated farms also. I am not impressed by the usefulness of both. But I am sure some people love to overcome hurdles that they create for themselves.

Pips are also a part of game mechanics by the way. It all boils down to what you like to do in the game and how big is your colony. Food generally is not a problem (when you go beyond the first 100 cycles) but oxygen is what limits your colony size. 

Small colony - you have plenty of water to generate oxygen and produce food (in fact, food production is less related to plants in late game scenarios but mainly animals/fishes). Ok, you may want to have high-end food which requires lettuce, wheat (it is obviously not very efficient but can be an end goal for some, sure).

Average size - you start thinking to completely move away from using water for plants but mainly for oxygen generation

Large size - you explore other ways to produce oxygen; and here we have pips with arbor trees - ethanol - p water - oxygen

steam/hydrogen rocket abuse to generate water

Co2 - slicksters - oil boiling if needed - p water - oxygen

any food - p dirt - sand or/and p oxygen - oxygen

Considering all lengthy chains above it is inefficient in my view spending a lot of p water for  thimble reeds even with superspecialized mutation but it may be perfect for you or somebody else who may have different game goals.

 

 

 

[cokess]

Leafy Dusk Caps

 

 

 

 

[KonfigSys]

4 hours ago, cokess said:

Leafy Dusk Caps

 

 

Interesting; no more darkness required if you mutate it to something which requires light - logical.

Probably same goes for bog buckets

 

 

 

 

 

[blueberry pi]

could it work the other way around with gas grass and exuberant? that would mean farms with no light need.

[sakura_sk]

13 hours ago, blueberry pi said:

could it work the other way around with gas grass and exuberant?

I don't think it changed since then.. but I also haven't tried mutating any gas grass yet so...

[SkunkMaster]

I think I might've found the golden one guys

 

20c max on sleet.. seems alright