ghkbrew Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 56 minutes ago, sakura_sk said: I'm curious if there are any other mechanics at play (except the constant 1-500 rad). I've seen seeds drop more frequently if the plant is not harvested immediately (but maybe I'm imagining it..?) It's always possible I've missed something. The control-of-flow in the code especially hard to follow since it's all event driven state machines. But, I don't see anything being taken into account other than radiation for determining mutation chance. And it appears to be localized to a single `ProduceSeed` method. Incidentally, Arbor trees don't use that method and instantiate their seeds directly, with no mention of mutations. So I'm pretty sure they don't mutate. 56 minutes ago, sakura_sk said: I tried to put a collider (if we are talking about that collider) but it didn't seem to produce any mutant seeds. The plant wilted in the pop of radiation but not every time, so I may need to time it better Yeah, I meant that collider . How much radiation does it take to wilt a plant? I guess some shielding is necessary. You may need to setup a few out of sync colliders to keep the radiation continuously high. 56 minutes ago, sakura_sk said: but there is no sensor for "harvest ready" so... I should probably time that too I guess.. Why not use a motion sensor? If you use sweepers for delivering fertilizer and removing products, the presence of a dupe is a pretty good indication something is about to get harvested. Edit: I suggest something like this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 7 hours ago, ghkbrew said: How much radiation does it take to wilt a plant? 500rads Well... It looks promising Spoiler The game doesn't like it very much... (Maybe it has the same "tick" problem of a certain vent?). I put the automation to 0.7 in order to only have 1 bolt blast at a time but it still isn't stable. It could give two, it could give none. I think a more sane solution would be the crushed satellite. But .. oh well...where's the fun in that? 7 hours ago, ghkbrew said: And it appears to be localized to a single `ProduceSeed` method. It is a chance upon the drop seed chance so a skilled farmer would increase that, right? So if a skilled farmer (14-16 skill, ~50% seed chance) harvests a plant in a ~250rad environment, it would produce ~8 randomly mutated seeds every 100 harvests. Putting 1 wheezewort around plants harvested by the same farmer would produce 1-2 mutant seeds every 100 harvests. Meh.. I don't like that chance but we'll see.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghkbrew Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 40 minutes ago, sakura_sk said: 8 hours ago, ghkbrew said: How much radiation does it take to wilt a plant? 500rads After a little testing, dupes can harvest a wilted plant if it's mature. So blasting with a couple thousand rads just while a dupe is harvesting should work. 40 minutes ago, sakura_sk said: It is a chance upon the drop seed chance so a skilled farmer would increase that, right? So if a skilled farmer (14-16 skill, ~50% seed chance) harvests a plant in a ~250rad environment, it would produce ~8 randomly mutated seeds every 100 harvests. Putting 1 wheezewort around plants harvested by the same farmer would produce 1-2 mutant seeds every 100 harvests. Meh.. I don't like that chance but we'll see.. Yeah, the farmer's skill adjusts the chance to drop a seed first. If that roll succeeds, there is another chance to mutate the dropped seed which scales with the radiation. So, yeah, the overall rate of mutated seeds will scale with farmer skill and radiation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 52 minutes ago, sakura_sk said: 500rads Well... It looks promising Reveal hidden contents The game doesn't like it very much... (Maybe it has the same "tick" problem of a certain vent?). I put the automation to 0.7 in order to only have 1 bolt blast at a time but it still isn't stable. It could give two, it could give none. I think a more sane solution would be the crushed satellite. But .. oh well...where's the fun in that? It is a chance upon the drop seed chance so a skilled farmer would increase that, right? So if a skilled farmer (14-16 skill, ~50% seed chance) harvests a plant in a ~250rad environment, it would produce ~8 randomly mutated seeds every 100 harvests. Putting 1 wheezewort around plants harvested by the same farmer would produce 1-2 mutant seeds every 100 harvests. Meh.. I don't like that chance but we'll see.. I grew a new type of Sunflower in my base Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian.oni Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 12 hours ago, ghkbrew said: That does seem to be the case. Running a radbolt collider for just long enough to harvest the crops should work. Will suits protect dupes from 60k rads? you might need to add some walls to bring it down to something more manageable. Lead suit says it offers 66% radiation resistance. Would that mean 60,000x0.34 = 20,400 / 600 = 34 seconds of that level of exposure that they could handle? But at any rate I had two primary ideas for how to do this. 1) would be a collider overhead where rad bolts could typically pass w/o issue, but when ready for harvest and rads are required a door could close to provide a collision. or 2) a collider could run to enrich a liquid with enough contaminants (and keep it at that level) to be safe enough for dupes but still break the 500rads level long enough for harvest, and when the plants are ready for harvest, have some mechanism to flood the plants until harvested? Maybe have a sweepy clean up afterwards if necessary? 10 hours ago, sakura_sk said: The plant wilted in the pop of radiation but not every time, so I may need to time it better, but there is no sensor for "harvest ready" I'm curious if you could only have the increase in rads after it's ready to harvest since wilted plants can still be harvested. This could either be done manually, timed with some effort, or while you can't set up a sensor for "harvest ready" you could set up a sensor for "harvester present" allowing collisions to happen only when the dupe has entered the room/area to harvest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 10 minutes ago, Brian.oni said: I'm curious if you could only have the increase in rads after it's ready to harvest since wilted plants can still be harvested. This could either be done manually, timed with some effort, or while you can't set up a sensor for "harvest ready" you could set up a sensor for "harvester present" allowing collisions to happen only when the dupe has entered the room/area to harvest? The only problem is the farm station. If you want to have a constant 100% boost growth speed, the farmer needs to enter the room multiple times. That's why I was thinking of a "harvest ready" moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonfigSys Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 Does the 25rad/cycle requirement for mutated plant growth bother anyone? If you add the hassles of collecting all the seeds needed and then you need to keep this 25rad for the mutant farm, is a simple unmutated option is better? Clearly there are some benefits but are they justifiable by the extra requirement? The setup to get mutated seeds is a one time and should not be critical. Now the nuclear reactor seems to be useful. But what about the running costs? You may not use wheezeworts as the radius is too small (just next to the wheezewort). Shinebugs are moving and hence the radiation level will vary so you need many of them or you will have a downtime due to lack of radiation. If you have many shine bugs you need a farmer to wear led suit. Also too many bugs in one room will lead to crumble effect and they will not reproduce. So you either have to keep the room opened with the liquid lock (which in turn will negatively affect your fish farm) or have a separate bug farm to constantly supply new eggs to replenish the quantity. You may need to feed bugs also. So extra automation=heat&electricity/dup time. All that to increase food production? In my view you can easily scale up pip planted completely sealed farms to have zero cost zero labor farms. One more negative point - mutated plants do not produce seeds(?); I grow plants mainly to feed fishes with seeds rather than the food option. I see only two valuable options: one which produces lice (licey) - as an ingredient for high end food and another with no harvesting required (juicy fruits) Did I miss the point? or it is just for fun rather than effective in-game addition? Your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, KonfigSys said: Your thoughts? Maybe food production is the goal..? If resin tree stays as is and requires that much calories, food production would be important. I only speculate though... I would farm for mutant seeds even only for the blooming and leafy ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonfigSys Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, sakura_sk said: Maybe food production is the goal..? If resin tree stays as is and requires that much calories, food production would be important. I only speculate though... I would farm for mutant seeds even only for the blooming and leafy ones I think that it does not compete with pip made farms. The matter is space savings you may get with the mutant farms in exchange for labor/electricity costs. If they remove the 25rad requirement then it may well compete with pip farm and will be better than a standard farm. I have plenty of food for the resin tree through fish farming on 4 asteroids. Each has hundreds of fishes hungry for seeds (ok, they on a diet). Using grubgrub provides clear advantages without any drawbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueberry pi Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 hello, i would like to share some results about the plant mutations, i spend a bit of time with a calculator and found some realy interesting results, this feature could be OP, my math(s) could be wrong so i would like to see if someone finds a diferent result. warning this article contains lots of long and posibly boring info, you have been warned. Spoiler Math(s) could be wrong. Plant mutations use: Bountiful Specialized Moderate temperature control plants with an extra half of calories, recommended for mid game as less cooling or heating is required. Examples Medium term Bristle berry 20 kg water 6 cycles 12.5 degrees range 2400 kcal Light 400 kcal a cycle 2.5 plants per duplicant Wild-ish Exuberant Poisoning and rapid growing glossy dreckos farming The bonus rot pile may be produced, the meal lice with germs may be generated, less plants per glossy drecko as it grows faster 0.75 plants per glossy drecko 15 kg dirt per cycle per plant 4.5 plants 25 rads in the stable 6 glossy dreckos 50.625~ kg dirt during 0.75 cycles for happy and tamed glossy dreckos Darkness If you want all the efficiency and get the crops, a disinfection room will be needed or chlorine in your food storage Letal berry (actually impossible as it would need light and darkness) 1.5 cycles 30 kg water 1600 kcal food poisoning 4 kg rotted pile 45 kg water per harvest Light Darkness 25 rads Produce 1060 kcal per cycle 0.94339622642 or less plants per duplicant Polluted sleet wheat 4.5 cycles 30 kg water 7.5 kg dirt 7200 kcal food poisoning 4 kg rotted pile Darkness 135 kg water per harvest 33,75 kg dirt per harvest 25 rads 1600 calories per cycle 0.625 or less plants per duplicant OP Rotted pile could be a problem as it off gases polluted oxygen which can degrade the sleet wheat grains even at very low temperatures, keep crops in high pressure to prevent this, you can use this rotted pile to compost dirt for the wheat Poisoning dusk caps 1.875 cycles 6 kg slime 2400 kcal food poisoning 4 kg rotted pile Darkness 11.25 kg slime per harvest 25 rads 1280 kcal per cycle 0,78125 or less plants per duplicate Op Rotted pile could be off based to make polluted oxygen for slime bia pufts to lower the cost of maintenance Toxic beans 5.25 cycles 7.5 kg dirt 30 kg ethanol 7200 kcal food poisoning 4 kg rotted pile Darkness 39375 kg dirt per harvest 157.5 kg ethanol per harvest 25 rads 1371.4285714 kcal per cycle 0.72916…….. or less plants per duplicant OP? The ethanol use is very minimal so there may not be an excuse to not see them as an option, also I'm looking at you BEAN lovers, and lastly you can compost the rotted pile to dirt for the plant Diseased balm lily drecko ranching The balm lily could occupy a very small space, could be placed in a pit with chlorine, the rest of the stable free to put hydrogen, OP 0.25~ plants per drecko No fertilizer Chlorine atmosphere 1,5~ plants 25 rads per stable 6 dreckos Easygoing For more temperature resistance plants, less fertilizer and less yield may be useful for sleet wheat at semi room temperature, for example AFK meal wood 5 kg of dirt per cycle 150 calories per plant 25 rads 1:30 ratio of fertilizer to calorie Less fertilizer consuming glossy dreckos 3 plants per glossy drecko 5 kg dirt per cycle per plant 12 plants 25 rads in the stable 6 glossy dreckos 60 kg of dirt during 3 cycles for happy and tamed glossy dreckos Blooming More beautiful plants For the decor perfectionist to negate the negative decor from meal wood or make other plants prettier, could be used in wild plants to boost decor without the main needs of the plant Flowering meal wood 600 kcal 10 kg dirt 3 cycles 15 decor 25 rads 200 kcal per cycle 5 plants per duplicant Super-specialized More yielding plants with careful temperature control, calorie dense food is recommended, for example Thermostat bristle blossoms 5 degrees range 3200 kcal 20 kg water Light Very controlled temperature 6 cycles 533.3333…… kcal per cycle 1.87~ plants per duplicant Frosty wheat 10 degrees range 14400 kcal 5 kg dirt 20 kg water 18 cycles 800 kcal per cycle 1.25 plants per duplicant Leafy For dreckos farming as it grows faster, the drecko wants to eat the whole plant, this can reduce the number of plants per stables for more fertilizer and give us more room for efficient designs for the glossy dreckos that need hydrogen and oxygen or co2 for the meal wood or bristle blossom that already uses light. A whezewhorth for radiation could be good as the plants need cooling as well. Glossy dreckos: Meal wood 1.5 plants per glossy dreco 12.5kg dirt per cycle per plant 9~ plants 2 ceiling lights 20 watts 25 rads in the stable 6 glossy dreckos 18.75~ kg per plant during 1.5 cycles 168.75~ kg dirt during 1.5 cycles for 6 happy and tamed glossy dreckos Better, uses less dirt and grows faster, the only thing is that it uses light, generates heat and needs rads Vs 18 plants for 6 happy and tamed glossy dreckos 540~ kg dirt for 3 cycles Dreckos Balm lily 1 plant per drecko No fertilizer 6 plants 1 ceiling light 10 watts Chlorine atmosphere 6 dreckos 25 rads in the stable Licey ¿Do you want to use the juicer but don't want to grow meal lice?, then get Licey mutation, you can grow other plants to get meal lice, grow a bristle blossom with Licey and get a bristle berry and a meal lice for your juicer for less than the price of two plants, buy Licey for 30 rads or increase your chances with 500 rads in your local preferencial plant, and for only 25 rads keep your mutated plant growing, buy Licey now, let's do a test of this wonderful product Bristle berry with Licey 6 cycles 25 kg water Consume 150 kg water per harvest Produce 1600 kcal bristle berry Produce 600 kcal meal lice Light 25 rads Licey mutation, grow a plant get Licey If you buy Licey you will also get the tips book completely free with tips like use Licey with rapid growing plants like Thimble reed 3 cycles to grow 200 kg polluted water per cycle Produce 600 kcal every 3 cycles Produce 1 reed fiber every 3 cycles Consume 600 kg polluted water per harvest 25 rads And if you buy our farm station you can produce micronutrient fertilizer using fertilizer for your plants, see the results Farmer touched thimble reed 1.5 cycles to grow 200 kg polluted water Produce 600 kcal every 1.5 cycles Produce 1 reed fiber every 1.5 cycles Consume 300 kg polluted water per harvest 25 rads Consume 5 kg fertilizer every cycle Consume 7,5 kg fertilizer per harvest And lastly if you get a grub grub from our critter store, you can grub rub your plant for even more efficient Licey Grub rub and farmer touch thimble reed 0.75 cycles to grow 200 kg polluted water Produce 600 kcal every 0.75 cycles Produce 1 thimble reed every 0.75 cycles Consume 175 kg polluted water per harvest Consume 5 kg fertilizer every cycle consume 3.75 kg fertilizer per harvest 25 rads Consume 50 kg sulfur or 30 kg sucrose per cycle Produce 5 kg mud or 3 kg mud per cycle Amazing right, so buy Licey now and if you buy 3 Licey mutated seeds you'll get a farm station for free, and that is not all buy in the next 0.5 cycles and you'll get a grub grub egg for free as well and a discount for your 3 Licey mutated seeds, or buy in bulk and get a big discount and all the free stuff from before including an extra sweetle egg and oxygen included, for an extra kg of gold get an incubator for your eggs and adding to that you'll get the recipe book to cook all the delicious food from your Licey plant, please buy we are so desperate Juicy fruits For instant auto harvest in wild farms with no fertilizer usage, so overall less time to grow and no dupe labor. Examples Meal wood 3 cycles 6.75 kg dirt Self harvest when fully grown 600 kcal 25 rads 18.75 kg dirt per harvest 200 kcal per cycle 5 plants per duplicant Wild meal wood 12 cycles Self harvest when fully grown 600 kcal 25 rads 50 kcal per cycle 20 plants per duplicant my results show that exuberant is actually a very good mutation, if you can deal with the germs, it's space efficient, time efficient, and resource efficient, i didn't tested all mutations with the math as the posibilities are endless, i don't count with the dlc but i been in the lookout for all the info i can find, let me know what you think. (this post may become outdated) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 @blueberry pi ehm.. sorry .. I don't get it.. Are these suggestions? Because wheat and beans don't mutate (unless I'm missing something...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueberry pi Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 it's if they mutate in the future @sakura_sk, i been seeing what we could do with each mutation on the plants, adding some funny names for some of these setups and doing the math. i think the devs will find a way to make these mutate, thanks for your perspective to my post, i really appreciate this community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonfigSys Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 drecko farm usage of mutant plants. The main problem with drecko is overcrowded/crumbled debuffs. If you use shinebugs it will further decrease the number of dreckos you can have in this room. Using wheezeworts is ok but there are limited number of wheezeworts in the DLC (printing pod derived is a rear case). I would rather use two wheezeworts for the interplanetary launcher on each planet -> a dozen of them right away gone for this purpose. You do not need to feed drecko all the time. Half hungry farm for dreckos is fine. Shinebugs will compete with grubgrub due to again the crumbled debuf. If you make the farm opened still a problem occurs at some point with hundreds of animals/fishes in the open space. Also you will not be able to use the farmer station. If Klei removes 25 rad requirements then it is definitely much better than unmutated plants. One option will be if there are r/a wallpaper or r/a materials you can use to keep the r/a level constant. R/a waste decays very fast. Does anyone has a good system to offer without shinebugs or wheezeworts to maintain 25rad easily? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghkbrew Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 32 minutes ago, KonfigSys said: Does anyone has a good system to offer without shinebugs or wheezeworts to maintain 25rad easily? For mass mutate seed farming, I think @Brian.oni's system from earlier in this thread might be the best: He was using it to produce mutated seeds at 500rads, but keeping 25rads should be much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electroely Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 38 minutes ago, KonfigSys said: Shinebugs will compete with grubgrub due to again the crumbled debuf. If you make the farm opened still a problem occurs at some point with hundreds of animals/fishes in the open space. Also you will not be able to use the farmer station. I've personally been combining both - I have a small grubgrub ranch (3 grubgrubs) and a full-size shine bug ranch, and all the eggs produced by them get dumped into my farm via conveyor rail and chute (with one or two eggs occasionally going to an unpowered incubator to eventually repopulate the ranch.) I could branch out the conveyors used to deliver the eggs to multiple farms, though I have not needed to do so thus far. I think my performance is taking quite a hit, though... Also, on the topic of wheezeworts - I really hope we can eventually create more of the currently non-renewable seeds. Especially Wheezeworts, since they're the only consistent, movable source of weak radiation. I've been personally using the Interplanetary Launcher to "split" seeds into half to effectively duplicate them, but it's a really inconvenient process and I have a feeling it's going to eventually be patched out. I hope it isn't until we have a way of properly increasing our seed count, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonfigSys Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 1 hour ago, ghkbrew said: For mass mutate seed farming, I think @Brian.oni's system from earlier in this thread might be the best: He was using it to produce mutated seeds at 500rads, but keeping 25rads should be much easier. This one looks too complicated / power consuming just to use on each mutated farm. The fact that 25 rad needed rather than 500 does not make it simpler. As it still should pulse frequently to maintain this 25rad as the decay is rather fast. It is probably ok to create mutant seeds but I may use the nuclear reactor for this purpose. I think that the radbolt path can be just under the hydroponic tiles (but not above as it was proposed for 500rads) and filled with liquid; the r/a created will probably be enough considering the hydroponic tile absorption of the r/a generated. But a lot of electricity will be used just to maintain the farms (through radbolt generator powered up). Not sure if it is justifiable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonfigSys Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 43 minutes ago, Electroely said: I've personally been combining both - I have a small grubgrub ranch (3 grubgrubs) and a full-size shine bug ranch, and all the eggs produced by them get dumped into my farm via conveyor rail and chute (with one or two eggs occasionally going to an unpowered incubator to eventually repopulate the ranch.) I could branch out the conveyors used to deliver the eggs to multiple farms, though I have not needed to do so thus far. I think my performance is taking quite a hit, though... Also, on the topic of wheezeworts - I really hope we can eventually create more of the currently non-renewable seeds. Especially Wheezeworts, since they're the only consistent, movable source of weak radiation. I've been personally using the Interplanetary Launcher to "split" seeds into half to effectively duplicate them, but it's a really inconvenient process and I have a feeling it's going to eventually be patched out. I hope it isn't until we have a way of properly increasing our seed count, though. I got your point. You have two ranches where you feed and breed (one for shinebugs and another for grubgrub) and then send eggs to mutant farm(s). Then you can have multiple mutant farms and the limit is only egg production which can be scaled up. The animals in mutant farms do not lay any eggs due to the debuff but it does not matter. It looks like a good solution, one needs to calculate if it really pays off considering the extra labor cost and electricity cost (which for some setups is critical and for some is not important). So you need farmers to work on ranches (it cannot be run fully automated without any dups); the extra eggs and then animals turn into meat at some point (but only for grubgrub as shinebugs do not make any meat when die). You need to farm phosphorite and sulphur to supply the ranches (both can be automated but still may be used for other purposes). Both resources could be unlimited: phosphorite from dreckos and sulphur from the volcano if one exists on the map. You get a lot of byproducts. I guess this one should be ok as there is not much alternatives unless Klei allows wheezeworts replication (the one you mentioned is the bug and may be fixed eventually - so good to know that the option currently exists). This is to be compared with a simple farm with two-three hungry(or not) wild grubgrubs and minimum labor cost just to harvest. Clearly it adds to the game content and we will see many interesting solutions to that. I messed a bit using the nuclear reactor and nuclear waste produced to pipe feed the radiation to mutant farms but it did not work well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 7 hours ago, KonfigSys said: If Klei removes 25 rad requirements then it is definitely much better than unmutated plants. I find it an interesting mechanic to work around. High radiation farms to have seed multiply (it doesn't seem we will get mutant plant seeds from mutant plants ever ) and low radiation farms of mutated plants. 7 hours ago, KonfigSys said: Does anyone has a good system to offer without shinebugs or wheezeworts to maintain 25rad easily? The current radiation sources are some passive ones shinebugs, wheezeworts, space, and some more active ones research reactor, colliding radbolts. You need more dupe work for the passive sources and more automation for the active ones but I think there will be interesting solutions for both There is also the uranium builds to explore and radioactive contaminants' sustainability (and probably I'm forgetting many more...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonfigSys Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 8 hours ago, sakura_sk said: I find it an interesting mechanic to work around. The current radiation sources are some passive ones shinebugs, wheezeworts, space, and some more active ones research reactor, colliding radbolts. You need more dupe work for the passive sources and more automation for the active ones but I think there will be interesting solutions for both There is also the uranium builds to explore and radioactive contaminants' sustainability (and probably I'm forgetting many more...) I totally support the high radiation model to get mutated seeds. There could be many interesting solutions and even then you can go with a simple setup with only one wheezeworts and you still get a chance to farm mutated seeds but in a small scale. I wanted to check players' opinion about the 25 rad requirements. I sense that there are no strong preferences one way or another. There is already one good solution proposed by Electroely. There could be others. Currently the mutated farms do not provide clear advantage over standard farms - many benefits that they provide are out weighted by running costs (labor + electricity). Shinebugs - require ranches running and consequently dup time. One is to consider the FPS drop also with mega mutant farms filled with shinebugs. Wheezeworts - worts are limited in the game; if there is a legal way to increase the count? You can get as many as you want in the vanilla game by bringing from another asteroid. Space = 25rad at surface. As soon as you put any tile, it will reduce the radiation level. There are no airtight tiles in the game that allow 100% rad propagation. Research reactor - small radius (ok for small farms or you need many reactors for megafarms but it is not infinite, when you run out of fuel, the farms are over. I experimented with r/a waste but the decay is fast and I could not find a good setup for even average sized farm. Again I am not talking about bug usage. Colliding radbolts - good to get mutated seeds. It may work to maintain 25rad through some setups. However, it takes a lot of electricity. Yes, there is a nuclear reactor but it is not good for the infinite game scenario till uranium is renewable. I am thinking if to make a closed loop for the radbolts with new ones feeding the system. R/a wallpaper/tempshifts made of processed uranium could be a good addition as passive r/a source for such farms. Should we ask Klei for such option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghkbrew Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 1 hour ago, KonfigSys said: wallpaper/tempshifts made of processed uranium could be a good addition as passive r/a source for such farms. Should we ask Klei for such option? My concern would be adding a solution that is strictly better than all the others. Right now all the options are of roughly similar difficulty, and complex enough to allow a lot of innovation. Adding a easily buildable, passive, scalable solution would pretty much obsolete all the other options. I agree that difficulty of growing mutated seeds seems disproportionately hard given their rewards, but I dislike solutions that remove all the complexity. Maybe it would be better to increase the rewards from mutated seeds so the current options are more worthwhile. E.g buff output to the 3-5x range instead of the 1.5-2x range mutated seeds do currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueberry pi Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 hmmm the math shows very few plants are needed per duplicants in some mutations (exuberant), could we use the crashed satellite as the radiation source, the irradiated planet could be a food production, also beetas produce radiation but are aggressive, if food production is what you want for the mutations, exuberant with a high calorie dense food and long growth duration is the best option, wheat and beans are out of the options for now, water weed produces 12 lettuce every 48 cycles, 48 - 75% (from exuberant) = 12 lettuce every 8 cycles = 600 kcal every cycle, this growing them wild, the quality is poor but (a very rare) maybe could be used to feed the tree. Another more promising option is the bug bucket, 1840 kcal every 6 cycles if domesticated, 6 - 75% = 1.5 cycles, 1840 kcal every 1.5 cycles = 1226,666666666667 kcal every cycle, the polluted water use is only 60 kg every harvest, this could be increased by micro fertilizer or grub grubs. after research there is not so much consumption of rads except for the rocket or planetary launcher, some of the radiation from the satellite is used for the planetary launcher, the excess for the plants, what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 2 hours ago, KonfigSys said: There are no airtight tiles in the game that allow 100% rad propagation. 76% is close enough Also, one idea (no shine bugs needed) would be space-farming waterweed in radioactive water (full of germs and glowing) There are so many possibilities now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonfigSys Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 15 hours ago, sakura_sk said: 76% is close enough Also, one idea (no shine bugs needed) would be space-farming waterweed in radioactive water (full of germs and glowing) There are so many possibilities now which tile material have 24% r/a reduction? But 25 rad from the space so in any case even slight reduction already renders it inapplicable? I have tested it - I could get 50% r/a reduction with ceramic or glass. Other materials I tried have more reduction of r/a. So I got maximum 12 rad from the space. Unless you put a tile which allows air to go through but not liquid and then put a layer of liquid on top of it. But even 100g of water reduces r/a more than 50%. Can you tell us about the radioactive water method - the one from the reactor or from the r/a rocket? Did I understand you correctly - you suggest to compensate the 24% reduction of space r/a with r/a water which is output from (reactor or rocket)? 17 hours ago, ghkbrew said: My concern would be adding a solution that is strictly better than all the others. Right now all the options are of roughly similar difficulty, and complex enough to allow a lot of innovation. Adding a easily buildable, passive, scalable solution would pretty much obsolete all the other options. I agree that difficulty of growing mutated seeds seems disproportionately hard given their rewards, but I dislike solutions that remove all the complexity. Maybe it would be better to increase the rewards from mutated seeds so the current options are more worthwhile. E.g buff output to the 3-5x range instead of the 1.5-2x range mutated seeds do currently. Yes, the r/a tiles/tempshifts will be a very easy solution to that (so I believe there will be mods for that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 27 minutes ago, KonfigSys said: which tile material have 24% r/a reduction - plastic? Gold amalgam Spoiler 28 minutes ago, KonfigSys said: can you tell us about the radioactive water method - the one from the reactor or from the r/a rocket? Either one or spinning radbolts around a pool of water. But I was thinking more about open air waterweed as water shields more than tiles or gasses. Also, waterweed can handle higher temperatures (up to 65C) Spoiler 30 minutes ago, KonfigSys said: Did I understand you correctly - you suggest to compensate the 24% reduction of space r/a with r/a water which is output from (reactor or rocket)? No. But it could be done, maybe..? I was thinking more of minimum shinebugs/wheezewort use and uranium built hydroponic farms Spoiler 3 shine bugs for gold amalgam hydroponic 2 for uranium hydroponic There is also the radioactive oxygen/CO2 (full of germs) that could compensate that 24% but radioactive contaminants in gasses are more unstable and don't spread uniformly. But all these are just "thoughts". I haven't yet properly tested sustaining a mutant farm in a base so... if you have better builds in mind let me know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonfigSys Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 this one does not work I did not know that agricultural tiles block r/a pretty well. It is 200 rad underneath the tiles and only 18 rad above (which is from the space above) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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