Klei should add more in game method to recover from griefers attack.

[Aeglefire]

In-game communication with other players coupled with rollback and kick already deals well with intentional griefers. In a resource-survival world, griefing will always be a thing. The tools for mitigation and damage reversal have already been well implemented.

[MondayNight]

1 hour ago, MilesUpshore said:

Hey, I would appreciate if you can stop being aggressive and group me with OP in the off-topic drama that's really derailing the thread, like this type of stuff is best settled in DMs instead of duking it all out on the forums. After all, this is still just a video game, and we are ultimately talking about video game suggestions, so don't do that.

"Sunlight is the best disinfectant" - people at large need to see this in all its griefing glory as another case-study of what's happening in pubs. It wasn't me who made a thread on KLei forums, bragging about "We kept alive an official server 10k days, wooo!". How? "We were a group of dedicated players, welcoming newcomers, showing them the ropes, being polite, a nice experience, all well and swell." Ok, but how it actually was achieved? "Oh, with AFK-scripts, exploits, and spawn-killing everyone with traps, Tentacles in Sinkholes, walled-in with Fossils TS, hihi!" Let community see what is actually happening on KLei official servers from all angles of this griefing fiasco - since is obviously also another griefing form one can encounter. Nothing for a PM, as there isn't anything to discuss in private - after this post, everything was made rather clean-cut.

 

1 hour ago, MilesUpshore said:

I also don't necessary fully agree with the original "every resource must be renewable" idea cos once again: the idea of doing so without eliminating the challenge of surviving with finite resources, and my previous post was thinking more along the lines of suggesting some resources be made renewable, more so in the vein of making reeds be renewable (provided with that probability percentage) and even replantable/transportable. Though, I personally don't see why grass tufts, saplings, even berry bushes can also have some degree of renewability (like maybe 1%?), since these can be destroyed by summer wildfires on the surface especially off-screen over time, but their abundance = renewability percentage must be lowered to maintain that challenge of surviving finite resources if it's implemented.

Anyways, this is my last reply on this matter, so peace out

OP's proposals may hold water, once more (yes, I repeat and repeat and say it again and again and again and once more and then again for good measure with a bis cherry on top... since some people don't seem to get it even if hammered to the proverbial wall 100 times): on expectedly long-running Endless servers, where resource regeneration has a purpose. Not for Survival. On Survival you - a collective "you" for all people diving in such servers - are responsible for your world. Like DS, where no world regen at all occurred. Playing un-moderated pubs (that by definition is a no-man's land where everything goes, newbie&troll stuff alike), but want a collective constant helping hand? That in my book is a survival challenge thrown out the window. Can beg to disagree.

Having a 1-5% chance of getting Saplings/Grass Tufts/Berry Bushes from crops after some in-game years passed by? Irrelevant, as previous commentators underlined above, for Survival pubs where vast majority of times not even 1st Winter landmark is achieved. What some of you proponents of such idea gave as example was a flawed concept that uses scripts, exploits, griefing to reach. Not applicable even in case of personal private Survival servers where - even more - the "responsible for your world" rules (DS quintessence). This very-niche demand for Survival OP envisions will require dev time, meaning costs, with very little payout in general applicability. Time better spent atm to speed up Character Re-work updates and meaty "Return of Them" content.

But as TL;DR: no vast resource regeneration in Survival.

[Does]

19 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

I cant debate you on every possibility of what a random is or isn't going to do. There far too many factors to consider, not to mention Id have to get off topic. All I can say on this matter is that, again, if renewability is behind a major boss it will not affect the early game. Burn to your hearts content. since if the server is struggling that hard, it may not get that far anyways.

You might be starting to get a little off topic. Were talking about renewing non-renewable resources. Difficulty in the early game is a little irrelevant, especially if the renewable methods arent going to be readily available. That varies from player to player and I don't think its fair to balance the game off a few possible scenarios. 

Subjective.

Off topic.

This hypothetical person you keep bringing up, that keeps burning everything to get warm, isnt going to kill fuelweaver. 

You've made this point very clear to me by now. It wont affect the early game.

Fair.

No, if anything this is the main topic, renewability. Something already present in the game in a few forms, the ruins being one of them. I've also heard that the lunar island renews itself very slowly. So its something already present in the game, its just not consistent. 

These examples hold merit but only in the early game. Some people say that adding renewability for a public server will affect their games but I see it as an opposite problem. I want renewability for the very late game which may have an impact on public servers; what we are discussing now essentially. 

Here is the main issue as I see it, renewability is already present in the game but it isn't consistent. What is the difference between a beefalo and a tall bird? Grieffing aside, there really isnt much of a difference outside of one being renewable but not the other. They are kited with similar difficulty, beefalos drop more loot,  befalos repopulate and can be moved. Why cant we take care of a tall bird to have produce another nest? When a herd will repopulate without any help? No one struggling to survive will painstakingly raise a tall bird for a one egg and two meat respawn point, when things like a spiders nest spawns spiders nightly. 

I think the problem is we are looking for easy solutions. I love how hamlet has its wilderness almost try and overtake the world. There is no reason why a renewing mechanic cant be dangerous. 

Food being hard is also subjective I suppose. Fair on poking me for being off-topic but I was just trying to respond to your statement; burning things and causing permanent loss is common as a winter join. There's reasons other than griefing you lose those resources over time.

Tallbird nests naturally repopulate I believe. A single nest would be a permanent Tallbird spawn AND an egg farm, which could add up over time. If nests were craftable, assuming current mechanics you wouldn't need to bother raising them (and assuming you did, they would pay for themselves after 35 days). Assuming you loot every two days, you only need four nests to sustain yourself from the eggs alone forever, while also acting as a food source that doesn't rot as long as you don't cook them (five, if you prefer to survive only off Tallbird meat). Compared to Beefalos, which only respawn during mating season in specific biomes, are tankier, have good reasons for not being killed (poop production, group transportation, quicker wool generation) and will aggro as a group meaning you either need strong AoE to obliterate the herd or to slowly kite off those you want to kill, Tallbirds certainly have a niche. If you were able to make nests from an alchemy engine for cheap (Beefalo wool, silk, etc.) they could easily become a decent source of food with arguably less annoying kiting for the egg yeet. This is a bit off-topic of course, but the point is that making things that don't seem particularly viable renewable could be a meta change beyond just being a nice gain for very old worlds, and that it's not really doing anything about the problem of griefing in the first place.

I do want to check whether we're talking on renewable or regeneration, regeneration as a dangerous mechanic would be really interesting. I agree, having it like Hamlet would be fun to see.

[Aeglefire]

On 3/29/2021 at 10:01 AM, Xenna said:

Step 2 : Block touchstone with fossil so they can't get out and died from starvation

Time to apply spawn protection to Touchstones.

 

On 3/29/2021 at 11:24 AM, Xenna said:

They try their hardest to kill any new player who join the world both directly and indirectly.

You guys got any Idea how to deal with hostage griefers ??

Can you give some examples on how they would try to kill you? Do they follow you around and try to build walls around you (which can be easily smashed), or take all food around you?

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, Does said:

Tallbird nests naturally repopulate I believe.

Nope, once a nest is gone its gone forever.

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A single nest would be a permanent Tallbird spawn AND an egg farm, which could add up over time.

Pig houses, bunny hutches, lure plants, spider nests, mole worms, and Vargs are all mobs that can be accumulated in a single spot to a great degree and farmed forever. 

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If nests were craftable, assuming current mechanics you wouldn't need to bother raising them (and assuming you did, they would pay for themselves after 35 days).

Bunny houses and pig houses pay gor themselves at some point and grow exponentially.

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Assuming you loot every two days, you only need four nests to sustain yourself from the eggs alone forever,

It takes 28 days to grow a small bird to an adult one. In comparison you only need to come across 2-3 spider nests, a single varg, destroy every pig house in the world etc. 

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while also acting as a food source that doesn't rot as long as you don't cook them (five, if you prefer to survive only off Tallbird meat).

Bee house can store honey indefinitely, i personally use 8 to feed myself year around. I only need to harvest them 2 times in autumn to last me until spring where I continue to harvest them only when I need to.

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Compared to Beefalos, which only respawn during mating season in specific biomes, are tankier,

They are easy pickings and easy food.

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have good reasons for not being killed (poop production,

Werepigs produce more poop than you'll ever need.

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group transportation, quicker wool generation)

You only need enough wool for a couple winter gear. I usually get my carpets from those already spawned in the world.

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and will aggro as a group meaning you either need strong AoE to obliterate the herd or to slowly kite off those you want to kill,

Or bond it to a beef bell and lead it away in a matter of seconds.

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Tallbirds certainly have a niche. If you were able to make nests from an alchemy engine for cheap (Beefalo wool, silk, etc.) they could easily become a decent source of food with arguably less annoying kiting for the egg yeet.

No, too easy, hatching and growing a tall bird will balance it out a bit. As well as a tall bird needing to move around on its own until it finds a place to build its nest. The tall bird will make it at a distance away from other nests to avoid grouping them too close together.

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This is a bit off-topic of course, but the point is that making things that don't seem particularly viable renewable could be a meta change beyond just being a nice gain for very old worlds, and that it's not really doing anything about the problem of griefing in the first place.

Its not about viability or ease of obtainment its about something being gone forever. Biomes are already limited in the life they hold by the end game they can look like barren wastelands. We're only allowed so few critters to wander around our worlds, it sucks when they're gone forever. Especially if it due to a griefer and that goes for plant life too. 

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I do want to check whether we're talking on renewable or regeneration, regeneration as a dangerous mechanic would be really interesting. I agree, having it like Hamlet would be fun to see.

Both, just depends on the resource. Animals should be regenerative, even if it requires player interaction. Plants should be renewable via late game methods, to keep them from being exploited early game. 

[Tranoze]

54 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Both, just depends on the resource. Animals should be regenerative, even if it requires player interaction. Plants should be renewable via late game methods, to keep them from being exploited early game. 

Tbh all late game method can be rushed, or speed run (even Ancient Fuel weaver can be speed run at day 14). Klei did add some renewable mechanic recently, turf, goat (i love that update), stone fruit(If someone burnt all stone fruit in your world, you still can get a new one via earthquake)
But they deliver those mechanic one at a time, while having other mob/plant untouched, which is quite a tease. They did say reed will be regrow in the future.

Maybe they do have plan for all of them, it just we cant rush anything, each update require lots of implement and bug testing.

[HowlVoid]

15 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Tbh all late game method can be rushed, or speed run (even Ancient Fuel weaver can be speed run at day 14).

That doesn't invalidate what I've said so far. If someone has the skill set to do this I doubt making berry bushes renewable will give them some sort of edge. 

15 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Klei did add some renewable mechanic recently, turf, goat (i love that update), stone fruit(If someone burnt all stone fruit in your world, you still can get a new one via earthquake)
But they deliver those mechanic one at a time, while having other mob/plant untouched, which is quite a tease. They did say reed will be regrow in the future.

Hopefully. 

15 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Maybe they do have plan for all of them, it just we cant rush anything, each update require lots of implement and bug testing.

That's what Im saying... It doesn't make sense not to make everything renewable in some form eventually.

[Aeglefire]

On 3/29/2021 at 7:05 PM, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

And KLei should root-out those dumb exploits, starting with stacking objects on Z-axis. Gates to Abyss, Glommer Wall-Darts bonanza, etc etc - stuff that can be done on public, official servers, breaking immersion, offering blatant advantages and more.

I agree with this, though some people might get very offended for even suggesting such a thing. 

[DARTH]

On 3/28/2021 at 11:47 PM, Does said:

The big question I have is whether a feature to repair with 50% resources would be really used. What level of damage would you deem repairable but not rollback for?

I'm imaging the situation is a major base fire, and at which point you've probably lost enough nonrenewables / resources to the fire alone that continuing on is probably not realistic even if fixing everything was more convenient.

 

actually, that would help A lot to me at least. mostly my base is burnt, most wasted materials are not expensive, just woods and rocks. The main reason i rollback is only that hammer them+palce them back is so annoying. 

2 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

That doesn't invalidate what I've said so far. If someone has the skill set to do this I doubt making berry bushes renewable will give them some sort of edge. 

Hopefully. 

That's what Im saying... It doesn't make sense not to make everything renewable in some form eventually.

true. I think the only reason we have so much non-renewable things in this game is because Klei still dont realize thats a coop-survial game. I mean, if we only consider the orignal single player game, many functions are pretty well explained since the Maxwell's Door existed, and player had a goal. Klei didnt prepare the game well as a "together survive in a place" game

[GelatinousCube]

Holding a public server hostage and griefing and killing anyone who joins should result in a ban from the game. Its toxic behavior that should definitely be punished. Public servers are for the public. Private servers are to do whatever you want. 

[Tranoze]

1 hour ago, GelatinousCube said:

Holding a public server hostage

People are using this quote quite misleading. If someone have time, and want to play, and have other to play with them in that world, that would never count as holding a public server hostage, it just they are playing normally.
But, new player without enough skill cant join in summer/winter/spring in that world, and thinking those player holding the server hostage, they want those server to reset back to autumn so they can join and play.
So what the point if all server reset in day 20 and all public only be in autumn? The goal of the game is to survive, that mean to be alive as long as possible, so as long as one try to archive that goal, there are no such thing as hostage a server, it just you not good enough to join in hard season and want all year long to be autumn.

[GelatinousCube]

38 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

People are using this quote quite misleading. If someone have time, and want to play, and have other to play with them in that world, that would never count as holding a public server hostage, it just they are playing normally.
But, new player without enough skill cant join in summer/winter/spring in that world, and thinking those player holding the server hostage, they want those server to reset back to autumn so they can join and play.
So what the point if all server reset in day 20 and all public only be in autumn? The goal of the game is to survive, that mean to be alive as long as possible, so as long as one try to archive that goal, there are no such thing as hostage a server, it just you not good enough to join in hard season and want all year long to be autumn.

From everything I've seen you are clearly holding a public server hostage, you have a group that decides if others are good enough to join and if not you spawn kill them, you have multiple mods in use that support and strengthen your ability to stay in control and stay alive in your world even when AFK etc. You have a group that message and chat outside the game to coordinate your worlds and maintain control re votes, kicks, rollback etc.

Why can't one of you who is on the most just host your own friends only server?

What you are doing is not the point of public servers. It would be nice sure if there were public servers that lasted longer and were more permanent like the ones you are building but that doesn't exist outside of private servers unfortunately. Public servers (as painful as it may be most of the time) are run by Klei for anyone to join and play in including new players and unfortunately griefers as well. Using mods, the power of numbers with voting and spawn traps/touchstone traps is really not cool in a public server and as much as it may mainly be to keep griefers/newer players out it also makes you griefers of a certain type as well.

Also don't make assumptions. I don't play in pubs at all, I play in my private 6000+ days world where I've completed all content the game has to offer solo multiple times. 

Never said I want year round autumn and I agree that it's lame that public servers reset so often/early but that's just how they work.

Play in a private or user hosted server, public servers aren't there to take over and "own" they're there for anyone of any skill level to join.

[Cheggf]

The person who made a thread complaining about griefers is a griefer? What a shocker!

[Tranoze]

25 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said:

From everything I've seen you are clearly holding a public server hostage, you have a group that decides if others are good enough to join and if not you spawn kill them, you have multiple mods in use that support and strengthen your ability to stay in control and stay alive in your world even when AFK etc. You have a group that message and chat outside the game to coordinate your worlds and maintain control re votes, kicks, rollback etc.

We do not spawn kill people, you just accuse me that with no evidence. Just because i play in a world and that world have a spawn block doesnt mean I'm responsible for them. Noone can monitor portal 24/24 to see if it blocked or not. Spawn kill has been something we against, and tried our best to make spawn stay the same as begining (in the 10k world, i join in days 2k5 and all turf in that world already been dug)
There was a public world where a wicker come in, spawn whole portal biome with tentacles, and we have to spend a whole game year to kill those tentacles (by this point regen would be a faster option) one by one so new player can join.

We only vote kick player that griefed another base before, and most of them we have hard picture or log evidence of them burning base, or destroying base, intentionally. And sometimes we kick afk ghost who join server and does nothing after they die just to drain other people sanity.

We do have a test called "english test", which if ghost can actually communicate with us with english, we will resurrect them.

At the beginning, public server is chaotic as you said, but it has envolve over the year, lots of thing has changed since 6k3 world and 10k world.
 

 

24 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

The person who made a thread complaining about griefers is a griefer? What a shocker!

Nah griefers are trying their best for what i asked to not implemented, because if they do, their act will be meaningless

47 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said:

Play in a private or user hosted server, public servers aren't there to take over and "own" they're there for anyone of any skill level to join.

There are actually lots of player with enough skill to survive in a world that last longer than 100 days. Like a lots, and we make friends that way. We suggest any newb that join the world when the season is not in autumn to join other klei server for better start.
Those accuse of hostage public server never actually join and play in public server, they just stand outside and jealous about it.

[GelatinousCube]

4 hours ago, Tranoze said:

We do not spawn kill people, you just accuse me that with no evidence.

Plenty of evidence in this thread alone that you are very clearly gatekeeping/keeping a server hostage. Whether or not you are specifically spawn killing is irrelevant.

There is literally a screenshot in a linked related thread where your group was planning on making an auto kick feature for your so called inclusive public server.... like cmon.

4 hours ago, Tranoze said:

Those accuse of hostage public server never actually join and play in public server, they just stand outside and jealous about it.

I have zero interest in joining or playing on pubs - I already stated that so please stop making assumptions/incorrect statements in an attempt to further your argument. I am solo and have no interest in multiplayer (I do play with a few friends on occasion but thats it) because I like my world and base to be exactly how I want it and don't want to risk my time and effort on potential griefers or slackers or whatever. There is zero jealously I simply don't agree with what you are doing as it is clearly against the spirit and purpose of public servers and is rather elitist behaviour.

You are simply using Klei provided resources that are meant to be open to anyone in an exclusionary and gatekeeping manner and acting like its your personal server. Toxic behaviour and not what public servers are for. End of story.

[Xenna]

What is worse than griefer is a shameless group of griefers who think they are owning everything and deserve more than ordinary, honest players.

Not the first time "hostage", definitely not the last.

"Guys, people start to realize what happened, what should we do?"

"Let's pretend we are angels, blame it for the griefer, call anyone who doesn't agree with us griefers or jealous!"

"Nice idea!"

 

 

Same group, same players, same attitude, same motives

Spoiler

 

Sources (check before they delete and deny everything)

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198041938283/screenshots/

https://steamcommunity.com/id/kevinhasby/screenshots/

 

[Tranoze]

19 minutes ago, Xenna said:

So you just assume i block portal because I used to play with a group that used to block portal? As you said, klei public is for everyone, they can join, which mean i can join. You joined the same world with them too, doesnt that mean you also block portal Xenna?
Why are you keeping posting thing have no relate to the topic, which is how to recover from a griefer attack.

Portal blocking already fixed by klei, move on, stop trying to post off topic stuffs.

48 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said:

There is literally a screenshot in a linked related thread where your group was planning on making an auto kick feature for your so called inclusive public server.... like cmon.

auto kick feature is real, and it only kick poeple have history and evidence of burning/hammering/destroying other people bases. It does not kick innocent people, and you can go to the mod page to appeal the ban if you are innocent, or promise you wont destroy other bases or resources in the future.
Here the mod page.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2007563445
Im not saying im always 100% right, human do always have wrong, but im trying my best to not kick people accidently cause harm to a base.

Other will say griefers are human too, they deserve to play in klei public, but again, this mod only start the kick vote, or notify if a player have a griefed history joined the world, it all that world's players to decide if that person deserve to play with them or not.

[SuperMeatGoy]

On 3/30/2021 at 12:46 PM, RoughCactus69 said:

That is a skewered way of thinking. You are saying it his fault for enjoying a big part of the game? Ok? Not everyone wants to use mods, plus you can add mechanics without them being "annoying". You just have to do it right.

Holding pubs hostage for over 10,000 days is a "big part of the game" to you?

never said good anti-griefing features (like what Viktor thought of) are bad. His ideas just aren't that lol

[Xenna]

#trustybanlistbtw 

and you can add more people into the list

literally can add anyone you hate personally even though they didn't do anything wrong at all

pretty convenient, isn't it ? 

[Tranoze]

42 minutes ago, Xenna said:

#trustybanlistbtw 

and you can add more people into the list

literally can add anyone you hate personally even though they didn't do anything wrong at all

pretty convenient, isn't it ? 

Again, as i said, im not saying im 100% right all the time, if they have trouble with the ban list they can appeal it anytime. Some of the ban got remove after i notice my mistake.
Dont expect me to be a perfect human being, there no such thing exist.

Also you post the banlist from outdated version of the mod, at that point i copy ban list from other groups, and slowly change it until now.
The person who abuse kick vote already got removed from the ban list long time ago, and thank you for notify me about "mole worm digger" i will remove him now

[Cheggf]

Tranoze explaining how joining public servers just so that you can stop other people from being able to play a videogame isn't griefing and is morally justifiable:

[bruhmoment23]

Just play solo 4head

[Tranoze]

6 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Tranoze explaining how joining public servers just so that you can stop other people from being able to play a videogame isn't griefing and is morally justifiab

Kinda need sound.

[RoughCactus69]

4 hours ago, SuperMeatGoy said:

Holding pubs hostage for over 10,000 days is a "big part of the game" to you?

never said good anti-griefing features (like what Viktor thought of) are bad. His ideas just aren't that lol

I agree, I stated that in later post. He definitely is in the wrong. 

 

Sincerely,

Cactus

[Cheggf]

12 hours ago, Tranoze said:

Kinda need sound.

If it had sound you'd hear that it isn't really Tranoze explaining how joining public servers just so that you can stop other people from being able to play a videogame isn't griefing and is morally justifiable! I'd be exposed as the liar and fraud that I am!