[Game Update] - 450996

[evilcat19xx]

2 hours ago, Steve8 said:

Gasses being stored in the same tank is fine. It means you draw out oxygen and replace it with CO2.

Here is my concern. Assume there are 500Kg of oxygen and 500kg of carbon dioxide stored in the canister. Now, how we can get rid of the carbon dioxide without sending any oxygen out?
There is no prioritization system (or a filter) that can be utilized to prioritize a gas (CO2) to go out first.  
That means we either should use a gas filter inside the rocket (using a gas element sensor is not working efficiently) or a gas filter near the gas rocket port. 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by evilcat19xx

[The Plum Gate]

13 minutes ago, Niil945 said:

Excellent. I had a lot of weird gas stuff happening so hopefully that resolves it. Should be fun to build a hydrogen gas system to make liquid oxygen and then use the liquid oxygen to convert hydrogen gas to liquid until we get supercoolant

They will probably add a gas liquifier. In typical fashion, it will produce a lot heat and require a lot of electricity as well. This would settle the problems associated with transitioning from gas to liquid in a closed system.

11 minutes ago, evilcat19xx said:

Here is my concern. Assume there are 500Kg of oxygen and 500kg of Carbon dioxide stored in the canister. Now, how we can get rid of the Carbon dioxide without sending any oxygen out?
There is no prioritization system (or a filter) that can be utilized to prioritize a gas (CO2) to go out first.  
That means we either should use a gas filter inside the rocket (using a gas element sensor is not working efficiently) or a gas filter near the gas rocket port. 

 

I think we're going to be getting some additional rocket interior specific amenities before this is all said and done.

Having partitioned liquid and gas reservoirs for the rockets would solve this - just have a toggle on the interior or exterior filter loaders / unloader ports that indicates which virtual partition to designate a specific partition of resources - different gasses or liquids would go in different partitions ( bladders really ). Newly created gasses would go into whatever reservoir the partition was reserved for.

Otherwise a simpler solution:

Basically, the output ports should also act like filters -  this would be rocket interior, and rocket unloader specific design. Doing this means that filters would leave unwanted elements in storages - so a pass-all category would let anything through. This would side step the need for a partitioning system.

Edited February 10, 2021 by The Plum Gate

[Niil945]

2 minutes ago, evilcat19xx said:

Here is my concern. Assume there are 500Kg of oxygen and 500kg of carbon dioxide stored in the canister. Now, how we can get rid of the carbon dioxide without sending any oxygen out?
There is no prioritization system (or a filter) that can be utilized to prioritize a gas (CO2) to go out first.  
That means we either should use a gas filter inside the rocket (using a gas element sensor is not working efficiently) or a gas filter near the gas rocket port. 

 

I built a test system to try to work around this and what I had to do was build a bunch of gas tanks to hold the output, filter the carbon dioxide out, and push the oxygen back into the input line. Unfortunately it takes 2.5 cycles to unload everything from a large tank and fill it back up. It's just annoying that it requires a lot of space for the necessary amount of gas storage tanks and they have to be protected from the heat of a launch unless made of steel.

My biggest problem thus far with getting things working, albeit disregarding the time it takes for things to happen, is that my automation wires even made of steel keep melting from rocket launches. I've got a test system planned to address this but it requires building around the rocket explosion area as much as possible. However my test did work for ensuring the cargo unloaded and loaded properly. I use 2 filter gates chained together, one on max 200 seconds, one on 70 seconds. I feed that into an and gate with a switch and then into the launch input on the platform. It works to ensure all the cargo is unloaded (not sending resources from each planetoid). Essentially it works out to 135 seconds per large solid storage tank to either load or unload. I'm using 2 and just loading on one end and unloading on the other. 

[The Plum Gate]

28 minutes ago, Niil945 said:

I built a test system to try to work around this and what I had to do was build a bunch of gas tanks to hold the output, filter the carbon dioxide out, and push the oxygen back into the input line. Unfortunately it takes 2.5 cycles to unload everything from a large tank and fill it back up. It's just annoying that it requires a lot of space for the necessary amount of gas storage tanks and they have to be protected from the heat of a launch unless made of steel.

You can use tank mechanics to foreshorten this - the tanks will initially pass alternating packets of the elements in a mixed gasses or liquids scenario. If you have a small amount of a gas or liquid contaminating a reservoir then it will come out almost immediately from the bulk of the mass in the system - you can then shunt the "filtration" system using automation via element ( gas / liquid pipe sensors ) and the signal counter with a decent buffer such that the hold time on the tank output where the element sensor is substantial enough to be positive for more than however many contaminates ( however many packets ) you might have in the reservoir ( per second ) - this is basically using those sensors to do packet counting, when the pipe clears contaminates then the bulk of the capacity remaining is also "filtered". You just have to stop the dance of packets leaving the tank to refill the original tank - this should be easy enough if you are already piped into a source elsewhere and are are refilling. You don't have to completely empty the tank - only the contaminates.

You can do this with any number of contaminates, the filters themselves wouldn't really be needed for very long, just the automation pipe element sensors, and the counter would be looking at the gas or liquid lines for the element that you want in the tank - you can use the reset port to reset on the counter when a new contaminate appears. The buffer would allow a per second on-time - so it could take the place of the counter, any sort of flip flop toggle or memory toggle type instance in the automation would hold the shunt and prevent having to empty the bulk of the tank.

That seems like a lot, but it can shave off a great deal of time when dealing with bulk vs minimal elements in storage. I do this manually with a valve and a plumber, and by disabling the tank or the outflow, but you should be able to do it with advanced automation.

I can't speak for the durability of your automation wire but if you know that it's going to melt no matter what - make it out of something cheap and abundant and try to keep as few wires in the rocket blast zone melting area as possible. It might be a good idea to make some ceramic drywall? is that a thing ( I forget if it's on the list of building materials for drywall ) - I thought temperature transfers happen at a rate equal to the least thermally conductive "element" in a single tile?

Edited February 10, 2021 by The Plum Gate

[evilcat19xx]

35 minutes ago, The Plum Gate said:

Having partitioned liquid and gas reservoirs for the rockets would solve this

 

That is exactly my suggestion:

3 hours ago, evilcat19xx said:

I personally preferred if they were stored separately

 

27 minutes ago, Niil945 said:

Unfortunately it takes 2.5 cycles to unload everything from a large tank and fill it back up.

And we already have the great Oxyferns. Why even bother! 

31 minutes ago, Niil945 said:

is that my automation wires even made of steel keep melting from rocket launches.

Yes. Heat management, on the surface, is frustrating. That is why I minimized the number of my rocket launches. 

[The Plum Gate]

2 minutes ago, evilcat19xx said:

Yes. Heat management, on the surface, is frustrating. That is why I minimized the number of my rocket launches. 

I recall a time when the temperature would fluctuate wildly from hot to cold up there - also, meteor showers and continuous regolith production as well animal infestations.

Edited February 10, 2021 by The Plum Gate

[evilcat19xx]

45 minutes ago, The Plum Gate said:

You can use tank mechanics to foreshorten this - the tanks will initially pass alternating packets of the elements in a mixed gasses or liquids scenario.

I was thinking the same, but I saw mixed packets of oxygen and CO2 when I tested it. Is it only working with reservoirs?

 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by evilcat19xx

[The Plum Gate]

10 minutes ago, evilcat19xx said:

I was thinking the same, but I saw mixed pockets of oxygen and CO2 when I tested it. Is it only working with reservoirs?

Are they mixing evenly? I can't tell what's going on here - as long as there's mixed masses in a tank, then it should be alternating packets - it may be that they evolve from the tank at an interval that's spread across how long it would take to empty the tank, but this seems arbitrarily complex.

These look like nice whole packets - this is indicative of there still being a large amount of mixed gasses in the system - also, the tank mechanics I was using with my plumber always involved making sure that no new elements were entering the system - so if you have gasses circulating inside the rocket, you may want to shut them off or stop the flow temporarily.

This involves some secondary storage tanks, obviously.

All that stuff I had written was regarding elements leaving tanks ( and no new elements entering the input of the tank ) - things get unusual when there's elements coming and going - otherwise you really do need the filters or at least prefilters for the system.

I noticed that not all liquid storages work the same - having run into this issue with the metal refinery and mixed liquids as coolant, it seems like it was hanging on to one of the two types of coolant and overheating the lesser mass of the two, but this is probably a unique phenomenon with the machine ( and possibly a bug ). The lesser liquid mass wasn't leaving the system until I cut off the inflow and purged everything.

Edited February 10, 2021 by The Plum Gate

[Tytan]

8 hours ago, Ipsquiggle said:

Added CryoFuel Propulsion tech to the Research Screen

wat

[Niil945]

2 hours ago, The Plum Gate said:

You can use tank mechanics to foreshorten this -

I haven't tested that as I only use the system right now to fill up my atmo suit docks. Eliminates the need for an interior pump. The regular mini pump doesn't fill up suits fast enough and the large one takes up too much space. With the output I can always get oxygen and not have an industrial building so I can get a great hall, barracks, and wash room in my rocket. My concern was more on the rocket output/input side as being problematic. It seems to jam up if it can't output everything in my testing so I still have to output everything. Though I will admit I didn't tinker with that too much as it seemed cumbersome and not worth it so maybe I'm missing something. My hope is they implement an output filter on the platform like it indicates in the text and this becomes a nonissue.

1 hour ago, evilcat19xx said:

And we already have the great Oxyferns. Why even bother! 

Yes. Heat management, on the surface, is frustrating. That is why I minimized the number of my rocket launches. 

Yep, I default to oxylite for the interior oxygen supply as it's simply easier and more reliable to use. Though something is glitchy as it still off gases and creates extreme pressures and the popped ear debuff. I *think* that happens when it off gases in a spot where another gas is and eliminates it. The alternative is to not have it off gas and then we have to deal with CO2 from dupes and polluted oxygen from outhouses. I'm not so concerned about the heat aside from automation and the ports as we have to put them there. I can adjust other things, but not those. The input/output are set and the ports require being adjacent to the rocket platform. To be automatable I've got to find a way to use them without them melting when a rocket takes off or lands. I could upgrade them to niobium or thermium but it seems off that we'd have to tech that far to automate rockets. 

[Gurgel]

5 hours ago, zach123b said:

oh and battery modules are op.  they don't require ground, 100kj for 3x2 spot, 400j/cycle leak, and the most overpowered feature being they don't generate heat.  i built a rocket pad, two batteries, then deconstructed the rocket pad to test.  only downfall is no automation but they're perfect for solar panel setups

Hahaha, I actually had a suspicion this was the case, but no time to test it yet.

[The Plum Gate]

16 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

Hahaha, I actually had a suspicion this was the case, but no time to test it yet.

Wouldn't it be nice to officially add this as a base building. 

[MiniDeathStar]

Please don't nerf batteries, they are prefectly fine for their purpose, exporting power to rockets and fledgling colonies. You could just make them unusable without being attached to a rocket. 

[Tytan]

8 hours ago, zach123b said:

oh and battery modules are op.  they don't require ground, 100kj for 3x2 spot, 400j/cycle leak, and the most overpowered feature being they don't generate heat.  i built a rocket pad, two batteries, then deconstructed the rocket pad to test.  only downfall is no automation but they're perfect for solar panel setups

I imagined it when I tested it on my sandbox map kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

[Niil945]

5 hours ago, The Plum Gate said:

Wouldn't it be nice to officially add this as a base building. 

I would love to see a higher tech version of the battery beyond the basic smart battery. And transformers too.

[babba]

18 hours ago, Nuclearpower said:

... but we definetly need a bigger Telescope soon.....it is kinda inconvienient to Scan from Space......

+1000

-----------------

"Hydrogen Engine back in the game" - Many thanks.

My personal meter stand to play the game again since the Radiation DLC announcement...Awaiting Regolith back in the game, all base game rocket stuff, radiation/reactor & original base game playable big maps / world generation.

IMHO radiation can wait a year if Klei needs till then, I just want want the taken content back from the base game ( listed above ) and I`ll be up playing. Once the base game content is added back to the game, please dont break the DLC save files again ( praying ).

Edited February 10, 2021 by babba

[Sasza22]

6 hours ago, Niil945 said:

I would love to see a higher tech version of the battery beyond the basic smart battery. And transformers too.

Polymer battery losing very little charge passively would be nice. Or they could go all out and introduce graphene as an advanced conductor material and allow it to be used for super conductive wires and transformers.

[Niil945]

Wanted to note as I just discovered this and I provided incorrect information above. For loading it's 135 seconds per large storage container just to load the material. To unload is 270. I added an additional 10 seconds just in case as it seems if a rocket starts landing and meets the prerequisite to launch (excess fuel, oxidizer, etc) then the platform will give the green before the rocket has actually finished landing resulting in the rocket taking off without completely unloading. 10 additional seconds seems to compensate for that. The reason it takes double the time to unload is that shipping lines only output 10kg onto the rail per second from the rocket while the input seems to be the standard 20kg.

My test to prevent melting of steel automation wires eventually found a solution. Simply putting up drywall in a 4 high and wide area around the rocket platform didn't work. It helped, but it wasn't quite enough. I still had instances where the rocket platform automation would melt and it would delay my cargo ship until I noticed and fixed it. What did was replace the drywall directly behind the automation input and output of the rocket platform with a tempshift plate. I had excess steel on hand and no diamond so that's what I used. Once I did that my wires stopped melting. It eventually requires siphoning the heat off somewhere whether a steam engine or just a something near active cooling to sink the heat into because the petroleum engine output will eventually heat up the steel automation wires and melt them. I used obsidian insulated tiles and drywall and thus far they haven't melted but they're getting extremely hot over time.

Also noticed some glitchy behavior where my cargo rocket didn't unload. When I monitored what was happening it returned to the planet to unload, the solid rocket port indicated it was unloading, the lights were flashing as if it was active, but nothing was being unloaded on the shipping rail. Didn't notice anything out of the ordinary at a quick glance so I figured try a reload. That didn't work. Then I noticed on another rocket platform when a dup transport rocket landed and the dups got out the first thing one of them did was disable the rocket platform. I switched planetoids and noticed the cargo rocket platform was disabled also. This was 2 different rocket platforms on 2 different planetoids where I did not disable the buildings. No idea what triggers that as it seemed to happen randomly.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Niil945

[zach123b]

i wish the rocket ports had unload/load instead of enable/disable for automation, i have it bug out often if i'm trying to fill it with stuff and it require an unload pipe or something

and maybe a filter built in so i don't need to completely empty storage to get that 10kg of gas or something.  cause i'll make a gas output filtering in o2 and use an intake fitting to put in co2.  when refueling, i got to unload all the gas in the gas canister before refilling it with o2.  it's just not efficient ingame

[KonfigSys]

On 2/9/2021 at 11:25 PM, 2tallyGr8 said:

I agree, as someone who joined the ONI community after the diseases were nerfed severely, (and is still very much a noob), I would like to have the diseases brought back, at least partially.

Klei please DO NOT simply bring lethal diseases back. When I started playing, all my dupes died of diseases and I stopped playing for half a year. I started playing again when diseases got scaled down. I fully support an option for diseases though. Some like but some hate LETHAL diseases. 

[KonfigSys]

On 2/10/2021 at 2:03 AM, The Plum Gate said:

The problem with bringing disease back is that it's just another debuff.

Once they get it, they get it. Everything up to that point is a matter of managing exposures. And you are either doing this or your aren't.

If you're already doing this management, then germs are the only interactive aspect of it. If you aren't, then you're treating illnesses.

Which aspect of disease, specifically, do you want to make harder?

---

Did they remove health recovery med kits from the apothecary or do I need to research something specific?

I do not understand people who want lethal diseases back. Some of them did not even play the early game when diseases were lethal. Some just forgot that players were asking to remove lethality. I am ok if there is an option - make it lethal or not. 

It does not add much enjoyment in the game (may be some emotional stress that I personally want to avoid in the game world at least).

Let me remind how it was:

when you start the colony, you do not have ANYTHING to protect your dups from lethal diseases; so you simply avoid dangerous zones and do not develop parts of the map. It makes the game artificially very hard at the beginning - for instance, you do not have gold as gold ore is deposited in the lung disease biome, so you cannot tame steam geysers well. At later stage of the game it does not really matter with suites, cleaning stations, medbays.

In the current game I am still constructing good medical facilities, recreation zone, water chlorine rooms but at later game stage. If someone does not do it in the current game stage, why would he/she wants lethal diseases back? Lost of dup production is a good enough stimulus. 

 

On 2/10/2021 at 12:00 AM, evilcat19xx said:

Thank you for the update! 

I like the "Suit Durability" feature since it gives me a reason to have a wild Thimble Reed farm. However. It is excellent that players now have more options to choose from.

I did not notice how suit durability works (I just set on auto repair so it did not bother a bit) and generally I grow a lot of thimble reed which I use to make the carpet floors and mainly to make super isolator (but not yet in the DLC)!!! Excellent to have the option though as options are always better than a simple one way solution.