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Lag compensation is BAD


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I am getting tired of explaining to new players how and why mobs kill them while being 2 meters away, and why do they constantly teleport backwards.
I don't understand why lag compensation is turned on by default, most new players have no idea what this is or how to fix it, and it's really hard to explain to them why they should turn it off, since they instantly turn it back on saying "lag gets worse when I turn it off" because of the visual illusion.
It's impossible to kite or even run away from mobs when the game lies to you about your actual position, and in dst (with hound waves being the obvious exsample) mob interactions are a huge part of the game.

Hope Klei will realize that this is an issue, and set default lag comp to *none* 
 

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I feel you ( ´༎ຶㅂ༎ຶ`)
Some of my friends would rather be lied to than see the truth. I think raising awareness about what it does in some way would be ideal, not necessarily having it on by default. If you see from the eyes of a new player you'd probably choose to have the game "smooth" than to have delay in your actions, not realizing the delay is there anyway.

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1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

I don't understand why lag compensation is turned on by default

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

they instantly turn it back on saying "lag gets worse when I turn it off" because of the visual illusion

This is why. You and me are fine with a very minor amount of input lag, but I don't think the average casual player would be, especially on higher ping servers where even I turn it back on when I'm not fighting. I haven't personally asked every single player their opinion on it but just from what I've seen over the past decade and a half of playing games in general I think the average player would prefer to have it on. I bet if this setting was changed to default to off the forums, Reddit, SCUD, and possibly even reviews would be flooded with people complaining that the game suddenly is really choppy and laggy because they don't know why they suddenly have the better settings enabled.

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Just now, Cheggf said:

This is why. You and me are fine with a very minor amount of input lag, but I don't think the average casual player would be, especially on higher ping servers where even I turn it back on when I'm not fighting.

but....lag compensation doesn't remove the input lag, it just masks it...if anything, a casual player would have a harder time with lag compensation than otherwise.. also pls tell me how to hotkey settings because the concept of going all the way into the settings menu mid gameplay scares me deeply

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3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

This is why. You and me are fine with a very minor amount of input lag, but I don't think the average casual player would be, especially on higher ping servers where even I turn it back on when I'm not fighting. I haven't personally asked every single player their opinion on it but just from what I've seen over the past decade and a half of playing games in general I think the average player would prefer to have it on. I bet if this setting was changed to default to off the forums, Reddit, SCUD, and possibly even reviews would be flooded with people complaining that the game suddenly is really choppy and laggy because they don't know why they suddenly have the better settings enabled.

Good point I guess. I never put my food on any server with ping above 100 since there are plenty of servers with low ping, but meaby other players have different stories. 

One thing I wanna point out is that people i mentioned (who claim it's worse without lag comp) are confused because they don't really get what lag comp is. A little bit of playing without it will make them used to it. 

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12 minutes ago, Lbphero said:

but....lag compensation doesn't remove the input lag, it just masks it...if anything, a casual player would have a harder time with lag compensation than otherwise..

The average casual gamer cares less about what's real and more about what they see. Masking it can have you get hit by phantom attacks, but you don't have a delay between your actions and them happening. That's what they care about. I've actually seen many different times people simply say that enemies in DST have a really large attack range, or that DST enemies hit further than DSA enemies. They don't even know they're lagging, they just think the enemies in this game have extended reach.

12 minutes ago, Lbphero said:

also pls tell me how to hotkey settings because the concept of going all the way into the settings menu mid gameplay scares me deeply

If you're on PC there's mods that can do it. I use this one. I set lag compensation to "Off" and the toggle key to F1, so whenever I join a server (which also counts as going into or out of caves) lag compensation is off, but if I hit F1 it turns on, then if I hit F1 again it turns back off.

7 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

One thing I wanna point out is that people i mentioned (who claim it's worse without lag comp) are confused because they don't really get what lag comp is. A little bit of playing without it will make them used to it. 

Yes, a little bit of playing makes people get used to it, but they would need to do that first step. If someone convinces them to try it out and they get used to it they might be happy or they might change it back. If the game abruptly changes it for them and they have no idea what's going on they'll start complaining that the game broke and everything's laggy now. Instead of making it default to off, maybe the game could try to let people know it exists and what it is a little better. I don't know how that would be accomplished, though. Maybe a little wobbling ! next to the options menu to get people to click on it, then a wobbling ? next to lag compensation that explains what it is and gets rid of the wobbling ! when clicked? The ? could then stop wobbling and remain in-case anyone wants a refresher on what exactly it is.

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Just now, Cheggf said:

The average casual gamer cares less about what's real and more about what they see. Masking it can have get you hit by phantom attacks, but you don't have a delay between your actions and them happening. That's what they care about. I've actually seen many different times people simply say that enemies in DST have a really large attack range, or that DST enemies hit further than DSA enemies. They don't even know they're lagging, they just think the enemies in this game have extended reach.

isn't this, only a thing because lag compensation is on by default? There would be a brief period of confusion but i feel like if lag compensation being off became the default setting then people would begin to not have horrible, incredibly hampering misconceptions about the attack ranges of things and how they just can't seem to actually land hits sometimes??  

5 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

If you're on PC there's mods that can do it. I use this one. I set lag compensation to "Off" and the toggle key to F1, so whenever I join a server (which also counts as going into or out of caves) lag compensation is off, but if I hit F1 it turns on, then if I hit F1 again it turns back off.

thanks!

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4 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

The average casual gamer cares less about what's real and more about what they see. Masking it can have get you hit by phantom attacks, but you don't have a delay between your actions and them happening. That's what they care about. I've actually seen many different times people simply say that enemies in DST have a really large attack range, or that DST enemies hit further than DSA enemies. They don't even know they're lagging, they just think the enemies in this game have extended reach.

 

 

 

The way I realized that something was wrong with the game was due to weirdly slow actions. I noticed that when my character grabs flint off the floor he preforms back massage to it, and only then picks it up. Something clearly wasn't right, since that's not how it worked when I was a host. so I clicked a few random settings options untill my power of grabbing items became normal. I pretty mutch turned off lag comp on my first day of dst without knowing it. 

My point is lag comp isn't even satisfying, it's smooth but actions are awfully slow. 

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I’m hoping that when I upgrade to Xbox Series X here soon that DST will also get some updates that are worthy of my New Console.

(less lag.. and probably more world Gen settings beyond just being locked at Default)

So far... there’s not a single game on the new consoles (both PS5 OR XSX) that makes me want to get a new system ASAP.. but Klei could be that change, they could be that jump that I need- 

What could get me to upgrade in a heartbeats notice- A New, Improved, Next Gen update for DST..

They advertise these consoles as being powerful, without load screens, and with minimal lag.. I want to see it.

Klei can even re-release the game at full price again or make it a free upgrade like how Minecraft gave everyone the free upgrade if they already owned the old version.

Bottom line: I’m tired of being killed because my character lagged back into a pack of hounds I was running away from..

Give me a REASON to want to get a Xbox Series X or PS5.

 

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Here's another perspective on this topic. I for one always play with Lag Compensation: On. I have tried in past 3 times to get used to Lag Compensation: Off. I couldn't. And here is why: in my connectivity's best days I get an average of 50-70 DST ping. On regular basis however, with closest/best servers to my location (Ro), I have around 100 ping. Aside this problem (that's more complex and has to do with cabling in my town, it's location - a mountain resort, and adjacent perturbation issues), I also rubberband. Nothing spectacular, constant, but at times it happens. Pretty, annoyingly, often. This means that in-game, with lag compensation: off, there is a significant delay between pressing keyboard buttons and actual character action - milliseconds, but sometimes when "stars align", can even be 1s-or-more - and in light of the mentioned above, they pretty often do align; annoyingly often. Once more, thanks to the rubberbanding, is not even a constant delay. To get an idea on how bad it feels as a playing experience, with lag compensation: off I get hit by enemies 1/3 to 1/2 of times (Shadows and Merms the most). But when I turn on the lag compensation, the transition between actions is smooth, not clunky, is consistent even if, on over 100-150 ping servers, I need to adapt my kiting pattern and instead of 6 hits, retreat, par example I need to do 5, even 4 or less for >150 ping. And before replying a triumphant "play on better servers, you scrub, or get another internet connection", I stress: in the area am in, this is the best internet available, and the best/closes DST servers have on daily-basis ~100 ping (KLei official ones that is). Plus here's the even more magical part: sadly am far from being in a tiny minority - via discussions I had over time with Steam friends, casuals on various servers and more, it seems such connection occurrences are far from "marginal worse-case scenarios". For example it seems a lot of DST players in Middle East, India, N-W China, Center-South Ru and the like have it even worse, with connectivities almost always in the red spectrum - and that being with closest pubs to their locations. Probably this is also why KLei opted to have a default on Lag Compensation: On.

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53 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Bottom line: I’m tired of being killed because my character lagged back into a pack of hounds I was running away from..

Give me a REASON to want to get a Xbox Series X or PS5.

Better hardware doesn't equal better internet connection.

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39 minutes ago, Lbphero said:

man...this thread is about the lag compensation setting, not whether xbox  has good games right now...

Lag compensation is what I meant though- I want the new consoles to handle it better.. so I’m not being lagged back into a pack of hounds that I’m trying to run away from.. every time I die to lag I roll my server back (if playing alone) because that was TOTALLY an Unfair death.

Some experts will say that predicting lag is just part of mastering the game: but is it really? Should it be? I don’t think so.

Maybe rather or not the consoles have good games or not may had been slightly off-topic, I apologize if it was- But all I meant to say is that I want a game that makes me WANT to upgrade to a new console- and a Less (or no lag at all) version of DST would certainly be a good start.

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Lag compensation makes the game visually better. I keep it on because even though stuff takes longer to pick up and maybe you might get hit when you shouldn't of have, its way better than my character zigzagging all over the place. Its displeasing to me. Most people say you its bad because you will get hit from a mile away, but all you have to do is stand still when the save comes, and have decent server connection and its good. Lag compensation is very situational.

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2 hours ago, TheGoldenDonut_ said:

Lag compensation makes the game visually better. I keep it on because even though stuff takes longer to pick up and maybe you might get hit when you shouldn't of have, its way better than my character zigzagging all over the place. Its displeasing to me. Most people say you its bad because you will get hit from a mile away, but all you have to do is stand still when the save comes, and have decent server connection and its good. Lag compensation is very situational.

I mean, i would get hit the same way if the server is laggy :wilson_angelic:

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I actually use lag compensation.
And I feel that using it is the only way I can actually play..

       let me explain.. I very commonly play with people who are across the world, so of course there is going to be a lot of latency. My connection is always on yellow. So, with these conditions, If I DIDNT have lag compensation on, then it would take 1 to 2 seconds to start moving once I pressed a button. And this makes the game dreadful to play in any capacity, its just SO SLOW.
       So, I turn lag compensation on, and all is fine, I can actually enjoy the game and play it semi-normally!
       Why semi-normally? Well like everyone argues.. it makes it so you seem to get hit out of nowhere.
So how can i possibly play around this? Simple. Every mob has a kiting pattern... So I just take how I fight with that kiting pattern.. and adjust it by how ever many seconds of latency I got. So sure you may be running right towards that spider as its about to attack, but the game still see's you as being away from it, so the spider attacks and you take no damage, and you go right to attacking it.
       Basically.. you have to kinda relearn the kiting patterns in a way, or just how you enter those kiting patterns. but once you get it down, its like playing DST normally.

       Now of course im an experienced player, playing with other people, so the game wont be that difficult, but thats also the whole reason I have it turned on. It may be confusing to newer players if they dont know why or how they are getting hit or what lag comp does. But, if you understand what it does and how to play WITH it. then it can actually help make the game enjoyable and not like you are pushing a brick wall on ice.
 

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