How to play DLC? How to achieve long term self sustainability?

[sheaker]

Hello,

I didn't had any troubles with understanding how to play ONI - base game but with DLC I am not sure how should I act. My starting asteroid has only two geysers/vents (brine and cool polluted water so both are water). Without most of the common plants, critters, volcanos, geysers etc. I am unable to achieve very long term self sustainability. So I am trying to habitat new asteroid: Great, there are Aluminium and Gold Volcanos! But there is no water geyser. So in fact I am unable to settle here for a long time. Currently I am trying to tame one of the volcanoes to get infinite amount of any refined metal and I am building rocket stand to sent some critters eggs and plant seeds back to home as well as the duplicant that is in fact trapped here.
Aaaaaaaand I am not sure what should I do next. I think I will be unable to transport reasonable amount of refined metal from this asteroid back to home using rockets...

I wonder if somewhere outside of my current field of view is there any bigger asteroid/planet similar to this from base game where I could settle for the rest of the game? If not, how should I achieved self sustainability? (Just a direction, no complete solution, please.)

Thank You!

[Chinesebut]

I think the idea is to use the rockets more and more often to reach sustainability. Especially the sounds of what you are doing. The first 2 geysers are more than enough to be sustainable for a small group of dupes. I think its not going to be like the last one where you have just one base on one asteroid ( but probably still doable) but perhaps multiple stations doing different job ( plant growing, critter farming, biohazard stuff) and one main hub. But it feels like a good push that you have to rely on the other planets to be self sustaining. Also its still early they havent added half of the new stuff so that might change.

[AndreyKl]

2 hours ago, sheaker said:

I think I will be unable to transport reasonable amount of refined metal from this asteroid back to home using rockets...

At the moment you can transport effectively unlimited amount of cargo per trip, it just needs to go into command module instead of cargo bay.

2 hours ago, sheaker said:

But there is no water geyser.

There are multiple options, but since you are 'unable to transport reasonable amount of refined metal', this problem will likely be solved for you once you figure the cargo part out.

2 hours ago, sheaker said:

as well as the duplicant that is in fact trapped here

Rocket's landing pad is all that you need, once you have one, your old rocket can land and start delivering/collecting resources between asteroids. Dupes included.

2 hours ago, sheaker said:

If not, how should I achieved self sustainability?

Self-sustainability is achievable even without water source, it just takes a while to set it up and certain technologies. Most players seem to prefer arbor trees, but that's not the only option (at least there were other options before arbor threes were implemented).

[sheaker]

Thank You for Your reply.

13 minutes ago, AndreyKl said:

At the moment you can transport effectively unlimited amount of cargo per trip, it just needs to go into command module instead of cargo bay.

Does it apply to liquids and gases also? It requires duplicants action to transport any material between command module and asteroid itself afaik (or is there a way to use conveyor belts and autosweepers?).

It is something different to transport fluerene, niobium or critter/seeds than to transport water, dirt and sand.

 

25 minutes ago, AndreyKl said:

Self-sustainability is achievable even without water, it just takes a while to set it up and certain technologies. Most players seem to prefer arbor trees, but that's not the only option

You mean arbor tree => lumber => ethanol => pwater => water?

That seems to be very inefficient way of water production.

[kerosene]

1 hour ago, AndreyKl said:

Self-sustainability is achievable even without water, it just takes a while to set it up and certain technologies. Most players seem to prefer arbor trees, but that's not the only option (at least there were other options before arbor threes were implemented).

What other options are there besides recycling toilet water and using slicksters to fuel the petroleum generator instead of arbor trees?

[AndreyKl]

9 hours ago, sheaker said:

Does it apply to liquids and gases also?

Partially. In case of water: it is fairly easy to transport it as ice. In case of gas you can compress a lot of gas into single tile, but it is impractically long to do.

Or you can deliver large amounts of lumber and then convert it to water.

9 hours ago, sheaker said:

It requires duplicants action to transport any material between command module and asteroid itself afaik

At the moment it is way more effective than conveyor. Conveyor rail delivers 20kg per second (or something like that) and is caped by cargo bay, dupes can transport resources in tones (Improved Carrying II +800kg) and are not limited by cargo bay.

You have a choice to either spend dupe time to fly rocket multiple times (ex: 40 trips for 40t) with small delays for automated bay loading/unloading or spent dupe time to load/unload rocket once (one single shipment of 40t), fly it once.

9 hours ago, sheaker said:

You mean arbor tree => lumber => ethanol => pwater => water?

Domesticated arbor tree->ethanol->water is likely a net loss of water, net gain of CO2 and dirt, but you normally have pips in same biome or can bring pips with you. In case of wild arbor trees it's a pure net gain (I haven't checked the math, but I think you need something like 4-5 wild trees per dupe).

Up to you how to maintain your colony, it's just an option.

8 hours ago, kerosene said:

What other options are there besides recycling toilet water and using slicksters to fuel the petroleum generator instead of arbor trees?

I meant 'without world-generated sources of water', so you listed pretty much everything. But it might be possible to maintain dupes purely with wild oxyferns (you will need lots of them, 13 per dupe?), morbs or from polluted dirt(rot pile) sublimation (but it might need stupid amount of wild food-plants)

P.S. I think oil wells were also a net positive for water in case of temperature refining without use of refinery. But the way of 'pips' is far more overpowered.

[speckle21]

I haven't tried the swamp cluster yet, but i did make to sustainability on the terra cluster with 12 dupes in survival.

I had two cool steam vents for water and never ran out.

For power i made a lot of glass and blanketed the space level with solar panels. Made some batteries to get through the night and i had more power than i could ever need. With all that power i ran aquatuners and steam turbines for temperature control and to run the industrial bricks. 

I temporarily had to use stone hatches and coal for power as i was researching through the tech-tree and still digging out the required materials. but afterward i culled most of them and just had a tiny 8 hatch farm for small amounts of coal needed for medicine.

for food i first ran down mealwood, liceloafs and then bristle berries. Eventually for sustainability i had a pacu farm and i also tamed sweetles and grubgrubs to make sucrose and grubfruit for grubfruit preserves. Great meal that the dupes loved. Sulfur to sustain the process was obtained from a sulfur volcano on the teleporter enabled asteroid. I built an automated sulfur taming, cooling and transport system. At first it was powered by hydrogen piped in from the main asteroid, but afterward i installed solar panels on that asteroid as well. It could be run entirely unmanned but i kept a lonely dupe there to dig for metal ores, lead, and fossils.

Dreckos could be farmed for plastic after the work was put in to make a hydrogen filled pincha pepper farm. I don't produce too much polluted water so this farm was tiny, but i didn't need a lot of plastic.

After that it was just doing stuff for the challenge like making comfy beds for everyone, and using the excess water to make stuffed berries through the bristle berry route.

Occasionally i would cull some of the sweetles for meat and gave my dupes surf-n-turf as a treat.

Didn't really need rocketry and i wasn't even able to get it work since my game bugged out and stopped me from landing.

I tried as much as possible to use the natural resources as-is like thimble reeds. They use far too much polluted water if farmed so i left the natural ones and harvested reed fibers that way.

The fact that there are no meteors makes solar panels OP for power. The only reason why i have an oil refinery is to make natural gas for my gas cooker. I don't even need the petroleum.

 

 

 

[TheKilltech]

5 hours ago, AndreyKl said:

Self-sustainability is achievable even without water source, it just takes a while to set it up and certain technologies. Most players seem to prefer arbor trees, but that's not the only option (at least there were other options before arbor threes were implemented).

I really hate this one. I mean this is an obvious exploit that the developers didn't think about when they implemented these mechanics. But since it has become a critical loop for sustainability - one of the very few I might add that doesn't need geysers - there was no way fix that afterwards. I hate that towards the end game ONI feels mostly like... finding and abusing exploits rather then playing it as intended... then again it doesn't even seem devs intended any long term gameplay at all. Hence usually that's about the point i stop playing.

[KittenIsAGeek]

9 hours ago, sheaker said:

You mean arbor tree => lumber => ethanol => pwater => water?

That seems to be very inefficient way of water production.

It is water positive, which means you get more water out of the process than you put in.  By definition, that's over 100% efficient.  If, on the other hand, you mean convoluted.. then yeah, many of the better sustainability loops are quite convoluted.

[Yunru]

On 12/28/2020 at 9:04 PM, TheKilltech said:

I mean this is an obvious exploit that the developers didn't think about when they implemented these mechanics.

********.

The power of wild farming was known about for most of development, to the point where they neutered it and only after many a month introduced pips to bring it back in a limited fashion.

[Hellshound38]

On 12/28/2020 at 11:52 AM, kerosene said:

What other options are there besides recycling toilet water and using slicksters to fuel the petroleum generator instead of arbor trees?

Pip planted natual food farms ?

Organic only of course

[Gurgel]

Go back to what the base-game actually assures you as well: Cold steam vents. With 2 steam turbines + aquatuner per vent you are all set. You basically use one loop to cool the steam directly to condense it (and the water-pool below that afterwards) and one in a regulated loop to get the water to your desired target temperature. Use for oxygen and bristle berries. As energy via solar panels is plenty and simple (no meteors), this works very nicely. The crude oil for the plastic you get from the planetoid with the teleporter.

The only thing missing at that point is sustainable sand (toilet loop), but there are multiple options for that and there is really no hurry.

[NewWorldDan]

On 12/28/2020 at 11:49 AM, AndreyKl said:

Domesticated arbor tree->ethanol->water is likely a net loss of water, net gain of CO2 and dirt, but you normally have pips in same biome or can bring pips with you. In case of wild arbor trees it's a pure net gain (I haven't checked the math, but I think you need something like 4-5 wild trees per dupe).

Use Pips to wild plant arbor trees.  Still, it is possible to use domesticated trees in a water positive process, but you need to ranch a bunch of Pufts off the polluted dirt->sublimation station->puft->slime->algae distiller.  Your food is BBQ from the surplus eggs.  The next challenge becomes filtration medium.  I'm making sand with Pokeshells from the surplus polluted dirt, but I'm moving to an aquatuner based water distiller.  I thought about using the volcanoes, but this is just easier.  For bonus points, you can import some slicksters to consume the CO2 (and good gravy that takes a lot of slicksters).  I'm in the process of making a thermal water distiller to save on the filtration medium.  8 ethanol distillers running flat out.  15 domesticated arbor trees (there are enough wild pips about to produce surplus dirt to feed them).

Long story short, I'm supporting a colony of 6 without a water source using domesticated trees.  They're water positive.  And they produce 10x more BBQ than they consume.  Still don't have enough slicksters to keep up with the CO2.  And they produce substantial amounts of petroleum and plastic.  It can be done. 

[Payamb]

Nice one! I wasn’t aware of this and you are absolutely right, it’s water positive.

 

Here is my calculation; Input/outputs are per cycle.

8 x Arbor trees (domesticated)

Input:

• 8 x 70 kg polluted water
• 8 x 10 kg dirt

Produce:

• 8 x 333 kg lumber = 2662 kg

———

4 x Ethanol distiller

Input:

• 4 x 600 kg lumber 

Produce:

• 4 x 300 kg ethanol 
• 4 x 100 kg polluted dirt

———

1 x Sublimation station

Input: 400 kg polluted dirt

Produce: 264 kg polluted oxygen

———

5 x Puft 

Input: 5 x 50 kg polluted oxygen

Produce: 5 x 45 kg slime

———

Algae distiller: 

Input: 225 kg slime

Produce: 

• 145 kg polluted water
• 80 kg algae

———

Petroleum generator

Input: 1200 kg ethanol

Produce: 450 kg polluted water

———

Total polluted water consumed: 560 kg

Total polluted water produced: 595 kg

= gain of 35 kg polluted water 

 

which can be further optimised by feeding the generated CO2 to slicksters