HeatAndRun Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Currently you can refill watering can with ice, but only 1 use. You should use 160 ice to completely refill one waterfowl can. There's still no other alternative way or structures than pond to refill the watering can. Refill watering can as ice should be buffed, It'll be useful method not only in winter but also in the situations that base is too far from nearest water pond in other seasons. What's your opinions about refilling watering cans as ice? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansuman Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I wont like to be buffed too much as ice can be stored indefinitely and ponds/oasis should play a crucial role in farming.That being said my personal opinion should be around 5 uses per ice. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1403155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I don't know how you could get more than 1 use of ice, do you mean to buff the uses of the water can 5x? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1403232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinancoTheBest Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 48 minutes ago, Shosuko said: I don't know how you could get more than 1 use of ice, do you mean to buff the uses of the water can 5x? yes, the proposal is that the using ice to refill the water can should restore five uses to the watering can rather than 1 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1403240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 37 minutes ago, SinancoTheBest said: yes, the proposal is that the using ice to refill the water can should restore five uses to the watering can rather than 1 Oh, thanks. That makes more sense lol I was thinking "how can you use ice 5 times tho?" lol I'm so blonde lol or maybe I can say "my wes is showing" XD Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1403251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WereGoose Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I feel like ice NOT being an alternative to ponds is okay. You need some kind of restriction to it since ice is so readily available to any player with flint and twigs that ponds and the oasis wouldn't be considered a benefit to base near. And it's not like it's hard to have a stockpile of water for farming. Building a chest full of just watering cans lasts you more than 2 years of constant farming, and cave ponds never freeze anyway. I personally appreciate the small walk of having to refill your watering cans. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1403338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
me real life Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I think the point of ice being able to refuel watering can is just so that you can still fill them up a bit during winter, when the ponds are frozen over. In that context I think it's fine for ice to not be worth much, since it makes sense that farming should be harder during such a cold harsh season. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1403707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuartzBeam Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 I feel people are underestimating just how many watering options we have in winter. Sure, ponds on the surface freeze over, but nothing else does. Hot Springs on the Lunar Island are still available and so are ponds and vitroeoases in the caves. More importantly, you only need to water a tile of 9 crops once per stage AKA 4 times from seed to fully grown. This means that 4 ice is enough to produce 9 giant crops. And you can always store a full watering can or two before winter comes. One watering can is enough to grow 90 giant crops. One waterfowl can is enough to grow 360. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1403787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktor234 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 2 hours ago, QuartzBeam said: I feel people are underestimating just how many watering options we have in winter. Sure, ponds on the surface freeze over, but nothing else does. Hot Springs on the Lunar Island are still available and so are ponds and vitroeoases in the caves. More importantly, you only need to water a tile of 9 crops once per stage AKA 4 times from seed to fully grown. This means that 4 ice is enough to produce 9 giant crops. And you can always store a full watering can or two before winter comes. One watering can is enough to grow 90 giant crops. One waterfowl can is enough to grow 360. I think this topic is not about the fact that there's a lack of options to refill the Watering Can during winter and thus Ice should be buffed as a water source for the Watering Can, it's about the fact that it's a waste of ice to use ice to refill your Watering Can and that this feature should be improved to allow players using their ice boxes as a water source (or just removed since it is a waste of ice). Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1403830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuartzBeam Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 28 minutes ago, Viktor234 said: I think this topic is not about the fact that there's a lack of options to refill the Watering Can during winter and thus Ice should be buffed as a water source for the Watering Can, it's about the fact that it's a waste of ice to use ice to refill your Watering Can and that this feature should be improved to allow players using their ice boxes as a water source (or just removed since it is a waste of ice). How is it a waste of ice? The stuff practically grows on trees in winter. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1403846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktor234 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 hour ago, QuartzBeam said: How is it a waste of ice? The stuff practically grows on trees in winter. Well ok, it's not a waste at all in your own solo lategame worlds where you have 1k ice stacked in your ice boxes during winter where ice grows all around the bae. But that's sadly not the case in public earlygame worlds during summer where ice grows only in the belly of catcoons and is required for many other like ice flingos or your wilson pet. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1403869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansuman Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 5 hours ago, QuartzBeam said: I feel people are underestimating just how many watering options we have in winter. Sure, ponds on the surface freeze over, but nothing else does. Hot Springs on the Lunar Island are still available and so are ponds and vitroeoases in the caves. More importantly, you only need to water a tile of 9 crops once per stage AKA 4 times from seed to fully grown. This means that 4 ice is enough to produce 9 giant crops. And you can always store a full watering can or two before winter comes. One watering can is enough to grow 90 giant crops. One waterfowl can is enough to grow 360. We can also look at it as how much does it cost to be lazy and not make a trip to water source .Given the low cost of watering cans and you can craft multiple ,160 per can seems a bit harsh. Will there be a a situation you will use to fill a can with ice , the penalty is extremely harsh as good as not having the option. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1403875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuartzBeam Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 minute ago, ansuman said: We can also look at it as how much does it cost to be lazy and not make a trip to water source .Given the low cost of watering cans and you can craft multiple ,160 per can seems a bit harsh. Will there be a a situation you will use to fill a can with ice , the penalty is extremely harsh as good as not having the option. I don't understand why you think you have to max out the watering can. You are not supposed to expend 40 Ice just to fill the watering can to the brim, nor do you get any reward for doing so. (And don't get me started on using 160 for the waterfowl can.) Ice is something you'll use as a last resort when you are not able (or willing) to get water in some other way. You also do not have to grow giant crops. You are free to ignore both nutrients and moisture and still turn a very nice profit out of your farm. But suppose you do want giant crops. With 9 crops in a tile, it takes 4 uses of the watering can to get the job done. (One use of the can per growth stage.) That's 4 ice to grow 9 giant crops, as I said earlier. AKA 4 ice to get 24.75 veggies (on average). And since Pumpkins are one of the crops that like winter, that means you can effectively convert 4 ice (~9 hunger) into 24.75*37.5 = 928.125 hunger in the course of ~3 days. That's enough to feed a single player for 12 days. I've never heard anyone say that using 3 ice to make Meatballs for 62.5 hunger is a waste of ice. So, surely, using 4 ice to grow veggies that give you 928 hunger must be pretty great deal, all things considered. Point is you're treating an emergency water source like it should be a perfect substitute for ponds, which is much like trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Turns out the square peg is not defective just because you thought it'd be a great match for that round hole. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1403900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktor234 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said: That's 4 ice to grow 9 giant crops, as I said earlier. AKA 4 ice to get 24.75 veggies (on average). And since Pumpkins are one of the crops that like winter, that means you can effectively convert 4 ice (~9 hunger) into 24.75*37.5 = 928.125 hunger in the course of ~3 days. That's enough to feed a single player for 12 days. I think we have 2 different opinions here: You: Ice should be used as the last resort and you can already convert 4x ice into 928.125 hunger via farming. Me: One use per ice is far too little since it's way less effort to make a 2nd Watering Can or just enter caves & refill the can compared to gathering 40x ice. 16 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said: I've never heard anyone say that using 3 ice to make Meatballs for 62.5 hunger is a waste of ice. So, surely, using 4 ice to grow veggies that give you 928 hunger must be pretty great deal, all things considered. The reason why 3x ice for meatballs isn't a waste at all is because nobody has access to all the farming tools during 1st winter, especially those who join during winter, except if they spend all the time during autumn farming crops & gathering fertilizers. Also crops need to be grown first & spoil over time while ice is always available. Other than that, there are in general many, many players around who say that using ice for meatballs as filler is a waste of ice. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1403904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansuman Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 32 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said: I don't understand why you think you have to max out the watering can. You are not supposed to expend 40 Ice just to fill the watering can to the brim, nor do you get any reward for doing so. (And don't get me started on using 160 for the waterfowl can.) Ice is something you'll use as a last resort when you are not able (or willing) to get water in some other way. You also do not have to grow giant crops. You are free to ignore both nutrients and moisture and still turn a very nice profit out of your farm. But suppose you do want giant crops. With 9 crops in a tile, it takes 4 uses of the watering can to get the job done. (One use of the can per growth stage.) That's 4 ice to grow 9 giant crops, as I said earlier. AKA 4 ice to get 24.75 veggies (on average). And since Pumpkins are one of the crops that like winter, that means you can effectively convert 4 ice (~9 hunger) into 24.75*37.5 = 928.125 hunger in the course of ~3 days. That's enough to feed a single player for 12 days. I've never heard anyone say that using 3 ice to make Meatballs for 62.5 hunger is a waste of ice. So, surely, using 4 ice to grow veggies that give you 928 hunger must be pretty great deal, all things considered. Point is you're treating an emergency water source like it should be a perfect substitute for ponds, which is much like trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Turns out the square peg is not defective just because you thought it'd be a great match for that round hole. I don't agree with you personally .... farming is a bit of work , if you are going for giant crops and if you planting 9 pumpkin plants in a farm tile in winter you have completed the phase you will need to use ice for watering can anyways. This means you have pretty much completed early game. Not everything needs to be balanced when you have setup up self sustaining base. What I am comparing is how good is source A to source B.By your logic a single trip to fill 3 water cans give you 24.75*37.5 * 40 = 37125 hunger Min max calculation like this doesn't make any sense , personally I go down blue mushroom biome to collect 60 blue caps and 30 cactus in a day and beat the season of winter. This is doesn't mean game should be balanced around this. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1403906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Developer ScottHansen Posted December 10, 2020 Developer Share Posted December 10, 2020 Ice and water balloons are not meant to be a replacement for filling up at the ponds. They are a backup plan in case you emptied your watering can but really need to water a tile or two before making a trip to fill it up. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1404010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlVoid Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Not sure why the survivors cant build a rain catcher/tank. If you can build a chest full of filled water cans then a tank is a nice way of reducing clutter/cosmetic. It could slowly fill in spring to hold water for summer. Having to make long trips/sail for WATER of all things is really stupid. They arent nomands/cavemen that need to be attached to a water source. Especially wickerbottom/wilson who are educated should know of ways of making basic ways of storing water using pig skin,stone,etc. If they can make a literal fridge out of rock and gold then this should be a no brainer. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1404029 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktor234 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 hour ago, ScottHansen said: They are a backup plan in case you emptied your watering can but really need to water a tile or two before making a trip to fill it up. Sounds more like a noob trap to me: Players should be able to plan ahead in terms of getting enough seeds, water, fertilizers, etc. if they want to obtain giant crops. Allowing players to use ice for the watering can will rather make them think that ice is a valid water source for the watering can, which will lead to rollbacks or kicked newbs. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1404046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird Up Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 My friends who are new use ponds in cave or prep a few water cans before winter. They don't need to be very experienced at all to see how weak ice is compared to ponds. I like how the water can works now. They're cheap and actually last a long time if you don't over water. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1404052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MondayNight Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Bird Up said: My friends who are new use ponds in cave or prep a few water cans before winter. They don't need to be very experienced at all to see how weak ice is compared to ponds. I like how the water can works now. They're cheap and actually last a long time if you don't over water. I think you might overestimate how competent at problem-solving some newbies/noobs/casual can be. Only yesterday I had on a random pub a certain Wilson binge-eating 2 stacks of ice. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1404055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 28 minutes ago, Viktor234 said: Sounds more like a noob trap to me: Players should be able to plan ahead in terms of getting enough seeds, water, fertilizers, etc. if they want to obtain giant crops. Allowing players to use ice for the watering can will rather make them think that ice is a valid water source for the watering can, which will lead to rollbacks or kicked newbs. until they see that only fills 1%. Like there isnt other harder "noob traps" in this game 1 minute ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said: I think you might overestimate how competent at problem-solving some newbies/noobs/casual can be. Only yesterday I had on a random pub a certain Wilson binge-eating 2 stacks of ice. radical exception. If klei needs to think about 70 iq players... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1404056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juny Pear Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 hour ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said: I think you might overestimate how competent at problem-solving some newbies/noobs/casual can be. Only yesterday I had on a random pub a certain Wilson binge-eating 2 stacks of ice. Is that because said Wilson is just a noob, or is it because of one of the following reasons: -He's actually a troll -He's new and nobody helped him -He's very obviously a troll, like come on. I see it so often that experienced players put no faith into new players at all, which just seems insulting to me. I mean for some things that's justified, since these things aren't necessarily designed in a newbie-friendly way, but when it comes to obvious stuff like this it just makes me sorta mad whenever all newbies get dismissed as "Wilson main that eats only red caps and monster meat", even though those people are few and far between. If they even exist that is. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1404099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primalflower Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 hour ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said: I think you might overestimate how competent at problem-solving some newbies/noobs/casual can be. Only yesterday I had on a random pub a certain Wilson binge-eating 2 stacks of ice. thorsty Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1404129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seero Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 On 12/8/2020 at 8:26 PM, ansuman said: I wont like to be buffed too much as ice can be stored indefinitely and ponds/oasis should play a crucial role in farming.That being said my personal opinion should be around 5 uses per ice. But ponds are an indefinite source except for winter, and then it becomes really annoying to fill your watering can. 8 hours ago, ScottHansen said: Ice and water balloons are not meant to be a replacement for filling up at the ponds. They are a backup plan in case you emptied your watering can but really need to water a tile or two before making a trip to fill it up. What happens during winter? do we need to fill up multiple watering cans before hand? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1404287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 Like is hard to make few and fill them every many years... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124642-i-think-1-ice-for-1-use-of-watering-can-is-too-small/#findComment-1404288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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