What can make Early-Game Rockets Valuable?

[Red Shark]

Klei has indicated they want Rockets to be a big part of Spaced Out! content. Let's talk about the various bits that go into that, and determine what needs to happen to make that intent a reality.

Telescope

The new telescope lets dupes explore nearby hexes on the starmap to discover new asteroids to colonize.It needs to be constructed before rockets, as you need destinations to fly rockets to, and finding new destinations takes time. It is unlocked by the same research that unlocks the Super Computer, meaning it's available very early.

But -- how easy is it to use early? I don't think losing atmosphere to space is actually the dealbreaker here (assuming Oxygen Masks become a touch more usable). Instead, it's the fact that the asteroid surface is very far from the Printing Pod. If the Printing Pod were closer to the surface, it'd be easier to justify pushing for it, since it's less travel time (and travel time is huge in the early / mid-game).

It's easier to build out, than up, so move the start up to make space-progression faster.

Warp Pipe Input / Output & Teleportals

Currently, the initial asteroid has both a Warp Pipe Input / Output pair, and a set of matching Teleportals. This is interesting and unique, and reinforces the "multiple base" playstyle almost immediately -- but at the same time, negates the need to ever send rockets to that asteroid. Rockets can deliver either Dupes or Elements. Warp Pipes can deliver Elements, and teleportals (or Porta-Pods!) can deliver new dupes over time. There are a couple of different thoughts here:

Move the Teleportal Planetoid

If the Teleportal Planetoid were further away, it would make more sense to use as either a refueling stop, or a secondary rocket launch site. I believe that currently it is always exactly 3 hexes away from the starting planetoid, which means it may never be useful to stage missions to or from. Which leads us to

Warp Pipes are "Too Good"

I mean this comparatively -- why would you send a rocket to pick-up or deliver materials to a planetoid if you have Warp Pipes linked to it instead. "Rescuing" Dupes would be one reason -- but the Teleportals negate the reason for that also. I think what probably makes most sense to happen is to have the Warp Pipes require a particular resource to activate -- perhaps they need a Nuclear Battery? (Or maybe that was always the intent? Remains to be seen!)

Another option would be to split 50/50 -- a Planetoid with Warp Pipes but no Teleportals, plus the contrapositive -- as both of those present interesting scenarios to harvest resources from. The former is easy to exploit, but hard to access, while the other is easy to access, but harder to recoup the initial investment.

Rocketry

I'm excited with the preliminary changes for the rockets -- building mini-bases inside of the rocket components is novel. However, in practice it proves a bit of a chore to actually make the plans happen. I think the neat think to do would be to make the entire rocket world connected by the same Liquid/Gas/Solid network, akin to how you can pump in / out materials using the modules attached to the rocket platform itself.

Then you could have both the single-compartment designs that have already started appearing on the forum, or get more complex (but at the cost of more weight -- modules aren't free, after all) to add CO2 disposal, or full plumbing, etc. Heck, if the components are adjacent on the external rocket, why not put them in the same Rocket world-space, even?

There might also be a case for an "Automation Signal" network, so that Smart buildings inside the rocket can AND together into a single output signal available outside the rocket (for the eventual automation of entire rockets). Less necessary if there's intended to be a "Dupe-free" Rocket variant for the express purpose of automated trips, but with the new wrinkles of pilot survival, the "outside" tasks of refuelling / etc. is only half of what you probably need to sort out before launching a rocket.

As it is currently, I find it hard to launch a rocket because of the fiddly bits of UX which I presume are still very-much in-development, so I defer my overall opinion until a later date.

 

What do y'all think? What does it take to make Rockets a worthwhile pursuit in the early to mid-game?

 

[SkunkMaster]

I would like to have the ability to get automation signals out from within the cockpit. Like from fridges or what have you. 

[Steve8]

It would also be nice to connect rockets to the base power grid when they are on the landing pad

[ghkbrew]

I think one option to force early game rockets would be to simply remove the warp pipe. The second planet is generally hospitable enough to support an independent base. And the teleportal provides a nice safety net in case one world collapses ("Hurry, everyone evacuate to the main base!"). But there's still a strong pressure to develop spaceflight to move elements back and forth.

[doomchicken]

There needs to be a good reason for rockets. You can easily do hundreds of cycles with a good number of dupes on the starting map. Let's look at the components you have to "manage":

1) Oxygen - is so plentiful, it is trivial. I doubt anyone has ran out of oxygen in the new DLC

2) Water - it's everywhere. Plenty of PWater, and lots of sand to make water.

3) Food - with lots of PWater, just 3-4 hydroponic farms for each dupe. Seeds are plentiful

4) Power - also unlimited, just use solar. Back step backwards because no need to setup any turbines or generators.

5) Gas management is also trivial - easy access to space.

6) There is a general abundance of metals - copper and cobalt - each mined tile should contain much less resource in the starting asteroid to create a sense of urgency / survival

7) The Printing Pod is also OP

Force people to use the rockets to survive - whether to get oxygen, water, food, power, dupes or to access the printing pod.

 

 

[Carcer_]

Teleporters only go to one asteroid (not sure if others are planned later) and i think is intended as a way of getting there while you work on rockets or having access to resources not on the start area. The start area is lacking in things like oil and this means they can make other resources available without having to cram extra biomes into the smaller map size. I think of the second asteroid as an extension of the start area. Maybe other future map options would make them more vital.

An option to disable generation of the transporters would be a fair option though.

The distance to space seems not too bad to me I'd worry if the start was closer to space you could have random generations where space encroaches too close to the start area

[Gurgel]

I agree that the teleporter is sort-of an introduction to the idea of having more than one astroid. If I understood correctly, they are planning to give you even more ventually than you gte now, so this is really like the 10'000km space locations before where you can get really easily and get an idea how the mechanism works.

[Cybeon]

Also there are lot of clues that this starting world we see in Alpha was deliberately designed for testing purposes. It lacks most of base game stuff, and contains mostly new things. Just to make sure that new things get tested first. I wouldn't expect it to be like that in DLC release or even early access.

[YMS44]

7 hours ago, ghkbrew said:

And the teleportal provides a nice safety net in case one world collapses ("Hurry, everyone evacuate to the main base!").

As the teleporter has quite some recharge time, evacuating a whole colony in a real emergency is hardly diable that way.

If anything, then the warp pipes are such an emergency device. Provided you have a decently running colony in the one world, you can supply the other with food, oxygen, coal, or whatever you need to keep the second world alive much faster than evacuating even just a hand full of duplicants from there. 

[ghkbrew]

2 hours ago, YMS44 said:

As the teleporter has quite some recharge time, evacuating a whole colony in a real emergency is hardly diable that way.

Good point. I guess you would have to decrease the cooldown for that to work. But I think that would be a reasonably balanced without the warp pipe.

2 hours ago, YMS44 said:

If anything, then the warp pipes are such an emergency device.

But that's the problem. They're too good at it. The optimal solution isn't to use them in emergencies, but all the time. In my first alpha base, I ran out of algae for oxygen on world 2, so I hooked a pipe of O2 to the warp pipe and left it that way for the rest of my play.

[suicide commando]

I think the warp pipe is meant to be used like that. In my current 2nd playthrough with the alpha stuff, I fully constructed my first colony, made it entirely stable and when I built my SPOM, I made it a double with one exit pipe going straight into the gas warp point. When I finally sent a dupe to the 2nd asteroid, first thing I did( after building an outhouse and a bed ) is explore the map, find the warp pipe exit and hook up a gas pipe and a vent so my first colony can now supply my 2nd one with oxygen and food.

[BlackGoat]

Might be best not to have a warp output on the starting asteroid at all, so that expansion to other asteroids is actually like a second colony instead of just a directly-connected extention of the starting base you've created.  100 cycles in and I haven't even touched the new rockets yet because there is really no hurry to get them up and moving.

[psusi]

Maybe the warp pipe is an easy mode thing and if you don't play on easy mode, you'll then need to actually build the lower tier rockets?

Maybe the warp pipe is an easy mode thing and if you don't play on easy mode, you'll then need to actually build the lower tier rockets?