Infinite storage & liquid locks

[Exoros]

Do we have any news about fixing infinite storage & liquid locks ?

Just asking if anyone knows something .

[mightybaz]

I very much hope not.  Anyway, why do you need to have them "fixed"?  If you don't like them, don't use them.

[Yunru]

10 hours ago, mightybaz said:

I very much hope not.  Anyway, why do you need to have them "fixed"?  If you don't like them, don't use them.

Because other people can't have nice things, I guess :P

[Exoros]

Every gameplay i see uses those exploits, so i would like to know the position the devs have on them(do they accept them as fine solutions or they cannot fix them right now?) .

[Saturnus]

1 hour ago, Exoros said:

Every gameplay i see uses those exploits, so i would like to know the position the devs have on them(do they accept them as fine solutions or they cannot fix them right now?) .

Not only do the devs accept them. They encourage them. They are not exploits, and never have been.

The principle behind infinite storages happens naturally on almost every single map to some extent. The devs specifically added automation to reservoirs, and made reservoirs permeable to the environment for disinfecting gasses and liquids in order for reservoirs to be relevant in the game.

I cannot even begin to fathom what in the World would make you think water locks aren't perfectly acceptable solutions. If in doubt look under your kitchen sink or any sink, or even a shower, bath tub or toilet in your house, and there is a water lock combined with all of them. How is water locks not an acceptable solution to separating two different gas environments in ONI when they are in real life?

[Yunru]

I mean, if there was any doubt about water locks, they pretty much got shot with the introduction of viscogel.

[Tsabo]

To actually answer OP's question rather than to critique the limits of his suspension of disbelief: there seems to be no news on the matter.

14 minutes ago, Yunru said:

I mean, if there was any doubt about water locks, they pretty much got shot with the introduction of viscogel.

For my part, 2-tile viscogel locks maintain my suspension of disbelief but 2-tile p/water ones don't.

23 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

I cannot even begin to fathom what in the World would make you think water locks aren't perfectly acceptable solutions. If in doubt look under your kitchen sink or any sink, or even a shower, bath tub or toilet in your house, and there is a water lock combined with all of them. How is water locks not an acceptable solution to separating two different gas environments in ONI when they are in real life?

If you don't understand the difference between a 5-centimeter toilet U-bend and a doorway then idk what to tell you

[Emeal]

Liquid Locks are fine with me, they exist in real life, you know but...
It hurts my sense of disbelief most when you have locked the content of an ocean into a 4x4m square using 1m thick metal doors.
Same with disinfecting water inside a tank, using Chlorine outside of the tank. Thats not how a sealed tank works, right!?!
Im losing my mind.

If Klei fixed some of these and gave us other game play mechanics/buildings to solve these problems,
I would be even more happy playing this.

EDIT: Im fine with the way all Liquids/Gasses separate and dont mix, that dont hurt at all. idd like a way to MAKE Saltwater tho.

[Saturnus]

4 minutes ago, Tsabo said:

If you don't understand the difference between a 5-centimeter toilet U-bend and a doorway then idk what to tell you

Maybe that you don't understand the concept of moon pools either? 

[Exoros]

I believe a viscogel 2 tiles high lock is totally fine because that is the reason it was introduced, but 2 tiles of pwater and water(and other similar combinations) lock is not something that i feel fine seeing. In any game i have played upto now the words infite storage could only be described as a cheat or be a mod(which is totally fine if someone wants a different playstyle from the normal).

I understand that using something for so long cannot easily be dismissed even if it is incorrect.

[yoakenashi]

To rebalance infinite storage, the devs could make them late game but not early game by introducing a space material (like insulation) or a a special indestructible building (like bunker tiles) that withstands extremely high pressures. This would be accompanied by making pneumatic and manual airlock doors and airflow tiles take damage at high pressure. This would also require making all tiles take damage at high pressure regardless of thickness.

As for liquid U-shaped locks, I would like to see a more realistic push of materials between gas and liquid. The general idea is that if there is high enough pressure on one side of a lock, the water should be pushed up and out into the low pressure side.

[JRup]

Hi!

TL;DR:

I'm more into the "what-if this thing I'm imagining will work?" and more often than not I prefer to ask if "A" or "B" are bugs just to consider a train of thought in a build and if there's something I don't like I just don't queue the build orders for it and set up something else instead.

Not so TL;DR:

I'm fully for stacked liquid locks. I encourage their use and applaud if something new about them is found. I'd even made some contraptions to specifically dose petro and naphta for this purpose. (Shameless self promotion is shameless, I know.)

Infinite storage has also got its place, I prefer having not much material around in the game "use as you go", however. I would guess this eases computations a bit. (I avoid germ production because of this too - disinfect often: saves frames.)

Both build arrangements (liquid locks & infinite storage) come with their risks as well: stacked locks are "finicky to use/set-up" and even infinite storage has its limits and the game "does a funny" when it's reached. Both liquid and gas vents have limits for reasons (besides "gameplay" I believe it kind of keeps the game safe for more casual play styles...)

So here's the thing, should we also "get the vacuum insulation deal patched"?

What I'm getting at is this is a game with an invisible "build what you want - see if it works" tag on it. I've also seen negatives on the SPOM being dubbed as a "noob trap"/"worst thing that has happened to ONI gameplay"/etc, then the "FJ" petro boiler also gets flak. This one I believe draws from lots of things that have happened before in this forum and other places. I think he just happened to youtube the thing and it got christened as his. There's also the endless argument for and against the fact that state changes in pipes does not happen if the pipe carries 10% or less of total capacity.

I've also seen the "restartitis" and how it's a thing too... (There's that other game where you're perma-killed by darkness and that's not something we see in ONI, though that would be a creepy gameplay mod "dupes vanishing in the dark" - I digress)

I think all these are part of the ONI learning curve and once you go down the "solve this & that" rabbithole then it's when play styles are born and we get the neat builds get posted on forums for discussion.

I do concur on the fact that there could be more "premade" solutions to problems. For example: just like an oxylite refinery a "bleachstone maker" would be a charm (there's a mod for that so it's not "official" - let's not get started on that). That would leave the option open for the "convenient" way of making things and the DIY way (petro/sourgas boiler, anyone?).

An "infinite storage" solution would be more of a convenience that takes a heap of resources to set up or you could go all Thanos on it and build it yourself knowing the risks. Liquid locks are not all powerful: you can still cook them, or freeze them: that's where you have to get creative if you absolutely need dupes to go somewhere too scaldy or too frozen for a lock to work.

So there you have it. Thank you for making it this far.
 

[Gurgel]

I really do not see any problem with ONI here. I see quite a few problems with what some people actually want instead. It is a game. It has a design that allows some insane contraptions. It in no way forces you to use them, so stop complaining. 

[Neotuck]

9 hours ago, Saturnus said:

If in doubt look under your kitchen sink or any sink, or even a shower, bath tub or toilet in your house, and there is a water lock combined with all of them.

In plumber terms, those are called "P-Traps" 

They are used to prevent sewer gases from venting back up though the pipes and into your house, without P-traps your house would smell really REALLY bad

[Saturnus]

5 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

In plumber terms, those are called "P-Traps" 

They are used to prevent sewer gases from venting back up though the pipes and into your house, without P-traps your house would smell really REALLY bad

In my native language the correct plumber term would be "vandlås" which literally means water lock.

[Neotuck]

2 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

In my native language the correct plumber term would be "vandlås" which literally means water lock.

vandlås refers to all liquid traps (including P-traps)

"All thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs..."

[Saturnus]

2 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

vandlås refers to all liquid traps (including P-traps)

If you know that then you should also have know that not all the water locks in what you quoted is actually usually p-traps. Many of them could just as easily be S-traps, and is the case of a toilet it almost always is an S-trap.

They're still called water locks though, as in "P-vandlås" and "S-vandlås". The letter in front only refers to the shape. It's still a water lock by name.

[Neotuck]

27 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

If you know that then you should also have know that not all the water locks in what you quoted is actually usually p-traps. Many of them could just as easily be S-traps, and is the case of a toilet it almost always is an S-trap.

They're still called water locks though, as in "P-vandlås" and "S-vandlås". The letter in front only refers to the shape. It's still a water lock by name.

S-traps are mostly illegal in USA due to the fact they can siphon water out of the trap allowing sewer gas to escape

Toilets are the exception because it's designed to refill the trap after every flush, but toilets do come in the P-trap variety if it's being plumbed though the wall instead of the floor

Although I suppose S-traps could work in ONI due to the fact siphoning requires air pressure and that hasn't been implemented in the game physics 

.... yet

[KittenIsAGeek]

On 10/10/2020 at 3:47 AM, Emeal said:

It hurts my sense of disbelief most when you have locked the content of an ocean into a 4x4m square using 1m thick metal doors.

For that I give you .... STORAGE LOCKERS!  

That's right, the good ol' storage locker, buildable with Sandstone after digging out your first block can hold 20 tons.. that's right 20 TONS of compressed solid material.  How compressed, you ask? Welllllllll......

Lets crunch some numbers!

A tile of igneous rock in my starting biome (HTFST-A-161578849-0) weighs 700kg.  A storage locker, which occupies one tile of space, can hold 20,000kg of igneous rock.  If we divide 20,000 by 700, we get a bit over 28.571.  That's a little over 28 and a half TILES of hard, igneous rock, stuffed into a single locker occupying only one tile's worth of space.  

And the storage locker? Simple sandstone.  Super soft and brittle rock is holding back a veritable MOUNTAIN of solid igneous material -- enough to fill 28 TILES with solid rock!

 

 

I get what you're saying, but I fail to see the relevance of your argument.  Yes, real-world liquids don't compress.  Neither do rocks.  Yet, in ONI, we have both.  #itsagamething

[Emeal]

Fair, but storage lockers compress and there is a limit, What limit does that infinite water storage have?

[gabberworld]

as this game is single mode, not sure that those are exploits, instead they are game features 

[gabberworld]

as i was bored i made mod for myself that Manual Generator makes 80kw power Exploit

[Urist McPilot]

2 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

A storage locker, which occupies one tile of space

How did you get one tile lockers? My game only has lockers called "storage bin" that occupy two tiles.

[gabberworld]

about storage they could change that , that you need use also second material metal for example for make it more realistic

also different build materials can hold different weight ,same also for pipes and tiles

[pether]

The only way to "fix" the liquid locks (assuming they need "fixing", I'm not so sure about that) would be to introduce pressure mechanics that would cause 1000kg of gas break locks made of two drops of water.

I'm 100% fine with current state of this part of the game, however.