Infinite storage & liquid locks

[KittenIsAGeek]

6 hours ago, Urist McPilot said:

How did you get one tile lockers? My game only has lockers called "storage bin" that occupy two tiles.

OK, fine.. they're two tiles.  But it gets better.. you can repeatedly empty the storage bin and store an infinite amount of rock at the base of the locker, occupying so little of the tile that dupes can continue walking by unhindered!

[Cybeon]

9 hours ago, Emeal said:

Fair, but storage lockers compress and there is a limit, What limit does that infinite water storage have?

Actually in Bahni automation pack they've introduced kind of a limit Here is the quote from patch notes
 

Quote

Loading a sim cell with a liquid or gas mass larger than a million tons will cap to that max. Fixes crashes in some saves where masses were so large it was creating invalid temperature calculations

Maybe not the kind of limit you wanted, but still..

[MinhPham]

What's wrong with infinite storage ? I can even make "legit" infinite storage of most gases and liquids by freezing them into chunks, and melt them when needed  ...

[Tsabo]

1 hour ago, MinhPham said:

What's wrong with infinite storage ? I can even make "legit" infinite storage of most gases and liquids by freezing them into chunks, and melt them when needed  ...

If you think of Oxygen Not Included as a bundle of rules and you get your jollies by figuring out how to sidestep them (I call this "Gaming like a lawyer"), nothing.

If you think of Oxygen Not Included as a roleplay of asteroid basebuilding, then doing stuff that grossly contradicts your understanding of asteroid basebuilding (like holding back a million tonnes of pressure with a very carefully balanced 30g of urine) kinda defeats the fun of it.

It's just a matter of taste. If your suspension of disbelief is stronger than mine then good for you.

[mightybaz]

 

 41 minutes ago, Tsabo said:

If you think of Oxygen Not Included as a bundle of rules and you get your jollies by figuring out how to sidestep them (I call this "Gaming like a lawyer"), nothing.

If you think of Oxygen Not Included as a roleplay of asteroid basebuilding, then doing stuff that grossly contradicts your understanding of asteroid basebuilding (like holding back a million tonnes of pressure with a very carefully balanced 30g of urine) kinda defeats the fun of it.

It's just a matter of taste. If your suspension of disbelief is stronger than mine then good for you.

 

Which brings us back to what I said in my original reply:

On 10/9/2020 at 9:33 PM, mightybaz said:

If you don't like them, don't use them.

 

[gabberworld]

i personally like liquid lock also they not really break the physics too much as liquid have stronger mass than gas

they could add unlimited went pressure what literally starts break  the pipes if it goes over limit or even the liquid locks
 

[Tsabo]

On 10/10/2020 at 4:33 AM, mightybaz said:

If you don't like them, don't use them.

But it's not just a case of "this doesn't affect me at all so I don't care, live and let live". Seeing a million tonnes of pressure held back by 30g of liquid happens accidentally in many games (I'm currently rocking an oil well with 2318kg of nat gas trapped behind 52kg of oil) and it takes me out of the RP a bit: I am in fact negatively affected. I think that adding a "blowout" mechanic where liquid is compressed by adjacent high gas pressure would be a positive addition to my experience.

And if liquid lock trickplayers have to get literally BTFO in the process, well, in the immortal words of Lord Farquaad, "That is a sacrifice I am willing to make".

[gabberworld]

3 hours ago, Tsabo said:

2318kg of nat gas trapped behind 52kg of oil)

 

no, you can only hold 20kg gas behind 52kg of oil, for break the liquid lock  you need hold at one tile the 60kg gas if using the 52kg of oil

you don't have in this game that powerful gas pumps what actually can break the liquid lock. for this kind stuff you need very heavy machinery, what can pump gas to room till it starts break the weak elements.

or it can be that you need even more gas in one tile because gas is very light 

--

also they not really think about this gas stuff because even if you holding 9999kg gas in single tile it not really break the 50kg water lock

 

[MinhPham]

1 hour ago, Tsabo said:

If you think of Oxygen Not Included as a bundle of rules and you get your jollies by figuring out how to sidestep them (I call this "Gaming like a lawyer"), nothing.

If you think of Oxygen Not Included as a roleplay of asteroid basebuilding, then doing stuff that grossly contradicts your understanding of asteroid basebuilding (like holding back a million tonnes of pressure with a very carefully balanced 30g of urine) kinda defeats the fun of it.

It's just a matter of taste. If your suspension of disbelief is stronger than mine then good for you.

I'm trying to make it "legit" for the exploit haters (so they can also using the infinite storage without feeling any "guilt") .... by freezing liquid/gas into solid = no gas or liquid pressure. And if someone complain about how a tile can hold that much weight (all the 9.000.000kg solid ice for example, then we can still can put in on an indestructible neutronium tile.

[gabberworld]

3 minutes ago, MinhPham said:

I'm trying to make it "legit" for the exploit haters (so they can also using the infinite storage without feeling any "guilt") .... by freezing liquid/gas into solid = no gas or liquid pressure. And if someone complain about how a tile can hold that much weight (all the 9.000.000kg solid ice for example, then we can still can put in on an indestructible neutronium tile.

if talk about kilograms then its total unlogical in this game

 

[Exoros]

I think it is better to iron out anything of poor taste like the fertilizer synthesizer natural gas-power factories that we had in the past. Instead i believe that everything that makes a big change similar to the fertilizer synthesizer fix must become a mod so that players who still want to use it can use it. This is not about hate but for a better foundation(referring to oxygen not included), we as players then can add whatever we believe on top(referring to mods). Finally if there is a behaviour inside the game that cannot be fixed by the devs because our pcs cannot handle it then i gladly accept it .

[Cybeon]

5 minutes ago, gabberworld said:

if talk about kilograms then its total unlogical in this game

 

 

That is not unlogical. It is perfectly logical in terms oh the game rules. It does not comply with the reality we as people live in. As many many other things in the game. There are much more things which break realism even more than this and they are explicit part of the game mechanics. Like  conservation of mass and energy. They are not just violated, they are basically not existent in the game.
And I don't think the game really have to comply with real world physics. Being non-realistic does not make game worse. Actually it makes it even better. Figuring out game rules and learning to live in a world with an alternative, but still in it's terms logical and consistent physics is the significant part of the fun.

 

 

 

[gabberworld]

1 minute ago, Cybeon said:

That is not unlogical. It is perfectly logical in terms oh the game rules. It does not comply with the reality we as people live in. As many many other things in the game. There are much more things which break realism even more than this and they are explicit part of the game mechanics. Like  conservation of mass and energy. They are not just violated, they are basically not existent in the game.
And I don't think the game really have to comply with real world physics. Being non-realistic does not make game worse. Actually it makes it even better. Figuring out game rules and learning to live in a world with an alternative, but still in it's terms logical and consistent physics is the significant part of the fun.

 

 

 

by default it not logical but yes its fun for find game limits. so you may start think differently how to play game instead how you played at beggining

[MinhPham]

23 minutes ago, gabberworld said:

if talk about kilograms then its total unlogical in this game

 

Trying to say that infinite storage is inevitable for this game, one way or another way. 123120481kg of CO2 on a single tile is unacceptable ? freeze it, make it a chunk on the ground. Still 1231231231kg of CO2 chunk sitting on the floor is unacceptable and unlogical ? place it on top of a neutronium tile. By definition a neutronium tile is indestructible so it would hold 349857212kg of CO2 chunk just fine.

[gabberworld]

14 minutes ago, MinhPham said:

Trying to say that infinite storage is inevitable for this game, one way or another way. 123120481kg of CO2 on a single tile is unacceptable ? freeze it, make it a chunk on the ground. Still 1231231231kg of CO2 chunk sitting on the floor is unacceptable and unlogical ? place it on top of a neutronium tile. By definition a neutronium tile is indestructible so it would hold 349857212kg of CO2 chunk just fine.

its unlogical by default with real world physics because this game is destined that 1 tile is 1^3 meter in real world.

[Yunru]

2 minutes ago, gabberworld said:

its unlogical by default with real world physics because this game is destined that 1 tile is 1^3 meter in real world.

That is not how logic works.

[gabberworld]

Just now, Yunru said:

That is not how logic works.

you cant hold at 1^3 meter tons off materials soo it goes out off logic

[Yunru]

Just now, gabberworld said:

you cant hold at 1^3 meter tons off materials soo it goes out off logic

Except, in ONI, you can.

And it's perfectly logical.

 

Because once again, Logic != Reality.

[gabberworld]

1 minute ago, Yunru said:

Except, in ONI, you can.

And it's perfectly logical.

 

Because once again, Logic != Reality.

in game yes

[Cybeon]

 

33 minutes ago, gabberworld said:

by default it not logical but yes its fun for find game limits. so you may start think differently how to play game instead how you played at beggining

I think we have different definition of logical. I use the formal logic in this case. There is a set of initial statements. There are some results of application of logical rules to these statements. 

If result is consistent and predicable using that set of rules than it is perfectly logical.

What you imply that result is inconsistent with your expectations based on the real world. That does not make it unlogical, it just means that your initial assumptions about the system are not correct.

[gabberworld]

1 minute ago, Cybeon said:

 

that you imply that result is inconsistent with your expectations based on the real world. That does not make it unlogical, it just means that your initial assumptions about the system are not correct.

start think yourself, if 1 tile can hold 1000kg water without any extra help, how big is 1 tile at real world?

[Yunru]

3 minutes ago, gabberworld said:

start think yourself, if 1 tile can hold 1000kg water without any extra help, how big is 1 tile at real world?

It doesn't matter.

Because it isn't the real world.

[Cybeon]

1 minute ago, gabberworld said:

start think yourself, if 1 tile can hold 1000kg water without any extra help, how big is 1 tile at real world

It doesn't matter. Oni is not the real world. It's different system, with different rules which are only partially resemble real world's rules.

It's close enough to look familiar and appealing but not nearly the same.

[gabberworld]

2 minutes ago, Yunru said:

It doesn't matter.

Because it isn't the real world.

lol, are you kidding? of course its not real world and that is where you should stop complain about the exploids

[Yunru]

Just now, gabberworld said:

lol, are you kidding? of course its not real world

Then why are you asking stuff relating to the real world?