Possible Walter improvements

[HeatAndRun]

Okay, with devs' generous update with recent slingshot buff, now Walter is a decent ranged-character with several useful perks. But their is a minor possible improvements that can be applied to minor inconvenience of Walter play:

• Woby moves away from Walter - right after Walter gets off Woby.

This can bother Walter players constantly, especially in these following specific situations:

• Player try to open Woby's inventory : You should chase Woby to open it.
• Player exploring labyrinth maze : Big Woby step on labyrinth's spider nets and rouse dangling depth dwellers.
• Player try to port large number of statues : After getting off from Woby to carry a statue, you need to go back to Woby painfully slowly to ride her.

It would be better if Woby doesn't move when Walter gets off. Like a beefalo does.

 

• And the second problem is : Thulecite ammo.

Before Walter arrives, there was no reason not to combine thulecite fragments into big thulecite chunks. Walter's exclusive ammo consumes thulecite fragments instead of chunk. For now the only way to convert thulecite chunks into fragments is making thulecite walls and hammering them down. If player needs big amount of fragments for ammo, this job could be tedious and resource wasteful. Yes - you can save fragments and not combine them, but fragments are inefficient at inventory management, and there're even more players who doesn't play alone, has ruin-rushing mates who would combine every single thule bits into chunks.

The solution for this one might be quite simple : Add Walter's exclusive ancient tab recipe. From 1 thulecite chunk to 6 fragments.

 

• Lastly - The least major one : Poop pellets.

This one is overshadowed by freeze rounds. Of course freeze rounds are higher-tier ammo but these poop pellets are even useless at their own supposed purpose : Losing mob's aggro. You cannot make the bosses lose aggro with these pellets. But this is fine considering the following drawback -> "Totally incompetent against group of enemies such as pigmen, spiders, beefaloes, frogs, clockworks, etc". Notably and strangely, shooting at mobs with freeze rounds gains no aggro from nearby group enemies, while doing so with poop pellets gains aggro from all nearby group enemies, even though both bullets deals no damage identically. At least pebbles can do something useful like gaining enemy aggro and hunting butterflies, this ammo serves almost no purpose.

Again, thank you for your attention!

[Viktor234]

Other points which might need improvements from my point of view:

The Pinetree Pioneer Hat is mostly useless, it's literally a slightly upgraded Straw Hat with 10 days durability instead of 5 and a low sanity boost. The only cases where I can think about an use for that item are:

• In your first 10 days: During that time you most likely won't have any head slot item and sanity drain can be more punishable than normal. Once these days have passed and the durability of your hat drops to 0%, you should have access to more useful hats which grant you armor or protect you from other hazards.
• If you are relying on a Log Suit: With its 80% defence, it reduces the sanity drain from hits by 80%, combined with the Pinetree Pioneer Hat you'll have 90% reduced sanity drain instead. For any other higher quality armor, a Football Helmet might be more suitable since it increases the durability of your high quality armor by 89%-84%. Without the Log Suit, equipping a Football Helmet instead of your hat will still grant better stats compared to the hat.
• If you have low health but still very high sanity: It will help you to stay sane for longer because your sanity drain depends on your missing health. But since Walter already looses sanity from loosing health, and since his tent doesn't restore more sanity than health, the only cases I know where "high sanity, low health" can happen as Walter are: Eating Cooked Green Caps or Cooked Cactus Flesh en masse, Reviving your whole crew with your own Telltale Hearts, being on Lunar Island (in that case you should avoid the hat), with Bee Queen Crown near an insanity source.

So I would not recommend to buy or weave one of his hat skins, since you won't need them anyway.

Walter is stated to be a "Slim" character despite the following points:

• He has the lowest hunger compared to any other Grim character, starving after only 1.5 days during any season.
• He has the second lowest health compared to any other Grim character (Lowest is Maxwell).
• Being hit by just a single spider applies already -40 Sanity and -14.77 Sanity/day (Numbers will be halved by his hat).
  • He's literally punished extra for every single mistake he does, despite being "Slim".
  • Sanity is something where many newcomers do suffer from.
• A Touch Stone grants you enough hunger for only one day and due to your health, you'll suffer from -59.08 Sanity/day which drains all your sanity in 1.69 days (A Telltale Heart drains less sanity since you get a health penalty from using it).
• Riding big Woby can be a death trap as he stuns you for short after being hit, allowing enemies to hit further attacks on you.

Unless you join during Autumn (or Summer due to the low overheating resistance form his hat), surviving as Walter might be harder than surviving as any other Grim character. While he does offer some ways to make surviving easier (use Woby to keep some of your items after death; Slingshot with Gold Pellets to gather free morsels on surface), they ain't that viable to newcomers.

[DarkPulse91]

16 hours ago, HeatAndRun said:

• Woby moves away from Walter - right after Walter gets off Woby.

What's even more annoying is that its not JUST went walter gets off of woby either

Ive had it many times where I walk up to woby to try and open the inventory or feed her and she just RUNS AWAY

No combat, no monsters anywhere... she just RUNS AWAY.
and it has almost killed me twice, as i had a torch in woby and it was getting dark, and she RAN AWAY 3 TIMES IN A ROW

[1bubbainpa]

I can vouch for a big Woby behavior change. She can do some pretty annoying things, such as constantly running away from me, or just sitting in the middle of a base and clogging things up.

My changes would be:

1. After Walter dismounts or goes near big Woby, Woby will run away after either:

• Walter enters combat
• Walter tries to move into space occupied by Woby
• 4 seconds have passed without Walter doing anything with Woby.

2. Woby in her big form will try to avoid standing ontop of or near structures.

[Viktor234]

Any chance to buff the damage of Walter's Trash Ammo from 17 to at least 27.2 because I don't see any uses for it right now.

• Hunting Birds? Birds do fly away if hit once and his Trash Ammo doesn't oneshot them.
• Hunting Rabbits? Hitting a rabbit once scares all the nearby rabbits away, making it not as effective as traps.
• For dealing damage? While the Trash Ammo does outperform the Sea Fishing Rod in terms of damage, it still has worse DPS and costs more compared to the Whirly Fan, which can be obtained very early and literally has infinite durability, making it way more cost effective.

They are literally useless and become even more useless once you obtain Gold Rounds. You can fully rely on Gold Rounds since they are renewable by using Gold Rounds on Birds and trading the resulting morsels with the Pig King, granting you more Gold Nuggets which can be used for more Gold Rounds.

 

Also something about his sanity: When I'm fighting or trying to survive early on as Walter, my sanity keeps dropping over time due to certain conditions (Taking damage, low health, healing with Blue Caps, etc.), till it reaches 0. Once it becomes 0, I actually do not care anymore to get back to 200 sanity since it's not only a hard way to return all that sanity, it feels useless to reach 200 sanity because with just a few hits your sanity will drop back to 0. In most cases I just restore my health and get my sanity back to something between 40 or 100. With only 40 sanity I won't need to suffer from Shadows and if I manage not to loose any health at all, it won't drop below 40.

I would suggest to drop his max sanity from 200 to 160 or 120.

Feeling undecided on this one: Reduce his sanity drain when taking damage from mobs from 200% to 150-100%, increase the sanity drain while low on health from -12 sanity/min to -18 or -24 sanity/min, growing faster the less health you have, and change the effect of his hat from "50% less sanity drain." to "Does not loose sanity over time while being low on health." cause it's useless during fights, making it more useful after fights and if you don't want to make use of your tent too frequently.

[MondayNight]

6 hours ago, Viktor234 said:

Reduce his sanity drain when taking damage from mobs from 200% to 150-100%..

I for one would be for a reduced sanity drain at 100%. More than enough to not be excessively punishing yet still a problem to overcome.

[1bubbainpa]

6 hours ago, Viktor234 said:

Any chance to buff the damage of Walter's Trash Ammo from 17 to at least 27.2 because I don't see any uses for it right now.

• Hunting Birds? Birds do fly away if hit once and his Trash Ammo doesn't oneshot them.
• Hunting Rabbits? Hitting a rabbit once scares all the nearby rabbits away, making it not as effective as traps.
• For dealing damage? While the Trash Ammo does outperform the Sea Fishing Rod in terms of damage, it still has worse DPS and costs more compared to the Whirly Fan, which can be obtained very early and literally has infinite durability, making it way more cost effective.

They are literally useless and become even more useless once you obtain Gold Rounds. You can fully rely on Gold Rounds since they are renewable by using Gold Rounds on Birds and trading the resulting morsels with the Pig King, granting you more Gold Nuggets which can be used for more Gold Rounds.

 

Also something about his sanity: When I'm fighting or trying to survive early on as Walter, my sanity keeps dropping over time due to certain conditions (Taking damage, low health, healing with Blue Caps, etc.), till it reaches 0. Once it becomes 0, I actually do not care anymore to get back to 200 sanity since it's not only a hard way to return all that sanity, it feels useless to reach 200 sanity because with just a few hits your sanity will drop back to 0. In most cases I just restore my health and get my sanity back to something between 40 or 100. With only 40 sanity I won't need to suffer from Shadows and if I manage not to loose any health at all, it won't drop below 40.

I would suggest to drop his max sanity from 200 to 160 or 120.

Feeling undecided on this one: Reduce his sanity drain when taking damage from mobs from 200% to 150-100%, increase the sanity drain while low on health from -12 sanity/min to -18 or -24 sanity/min, growing faster the less health you have, and change the effect of his hat from "50% less sanity drain." to "Does not loose sanity over time while being low on health." cause it's useless during fights, making it more useful after fights and if you don't want to make use of your tent too frequently.

The cheap rounds are literally made of only 1 rock. I think it’s fine for them to be disposable early.

[kilobit]

22 minutes ago, 1bubbainpa said:

The cheap rounds are literally made of only 1 rock. I think it’s fine for them to be disposable early.

The thing is that they totally suck and aren't even competent for their cheap price

[ArubaroBeefalo]

15 minutes ago, bitcrushed_rage said:

The thing is that they totally suck and aren't even competent for their cheap price

only for dont waste time killing butterflies is worth

[Well-met]

21 minutes ago, bitcrushed_rage said:

The thing is that they totally suck and aren't even competent for their cheap price

slingshot wasnt designed to solo stuff.

17 adds up nicely when you got another person attacking with their own melee damage.

[1bubbainpa]

32 minutes ago, bitcrushed_rage said:

The thing is that they totally suck and aren't even competent for their cheap price

Atop of other reasons listed, they’re also good for killing gobblers and aground koalaphants early-game.

[kilobit]

1 hour ago, Well-met said:

slingshot wasnt designed to solo stuff.

17 adds up nicely when you got another person attacking with their own melee damage.

It's still not very impressive, and I can't really see any reason to craft any more than the 10 given upon spawning in.

1 hour ago, 1bubbainpa said:

Atop of other reasons listed, they’re also good for killing gobblers and aground koalaphants early-game.

You're better off just getting yourself some gold rounds ASAP, it's not hard or expensive at all, letting you save your rocks for more vital things

[1bubbainpa]

1 hour ago, bitcrushed_rage said:

It's still not very impressive, and I can't really see any reason to craft any more than the 10 given upon spawning in.

You're better off just getting yourself some gold rounds ASAP, it's not hard or expensive at all, letting you save your rocks for more vital things

That’s exactly the point. The 10 rounds you start with should be plenty enough for you to survive the scavenging days until you can transition into gold rounds.

[kilobit]

2 minutes ago, 1bubbainpa said:

That’s exactly the point. The 10 rounds you start with should be plenty enough for you to survive the scavenging days until you can transition into gold rounds.

Yeah, but they hold literally zero value otherwise. Like. None. At all. Only good for the first few days.

[smallishbird]

25 minutes ago, bitcrushed_rage said:

Yeah, but they hold literally zero value otherwise. Like. None. At all. Only good for the first few days.

And what’s wrong with that? Not every item needs to have late game value. You can use it gain aggro of mobs that normally avoid you like koalas and volt goats. It doesn’t really need to have value outside of that considering how cheap it is.

[kilobit]

18 minutes ago, smallishbird said:

And what’s wrong with that? Not every item needs to have late game value. You can use it gain aggro of mobs that normally avoid you like koalas and volt goats. It doesn’t really need to have value outside of that considering how cheap it is.

I've got no problem with that at all, but I'm not going to deny that it has very little early game value as well. 

[Well-met]

it's crafted from 1 rocks. rocks are dirt cheap and literally everywhere. the stats reflect the material.

[Toros]

Some of you don’t understand Walter’s design goals.

Walter is meant to be a high risk/high reward character.  He is very effective in that role already, and he is not intended to be an ideal choice for new and low skill players.

17 damage ammo that is basically free is good for a narrow set of uses.  As people mentioned, gold is your standard and easily renewable ammo.

His hat is quite useful when fighting enemies where damage isn’t reasonably avoidable.

I do agree with the “Woby doesn’t walk away from you” because it is annoying when moving marble, but all of the other suggestions are unnecessary.

[KeshS]

38 minutes ago, Toros said:

high risk/high reward

 

38 minutes ago, Toros said:

17 damage ammo that is basically free is good for a narrow set of uses.  As people mentioned, gold is your standard and easily renewable ammo.

I don't see where is the high reward? What am I supposed to do with a million pebbles? Kill every single critter that appears in my field of view? Getting a dark sword or hambat gives much more value with dealing with any threat. Going for giants just extends the fights for much much longer. There is already a boss that purposely battles for attrition. Walter offers a different approach to playstyle, but it is just not good and exciting :/

[Viktor234]

1 hour ago, Toros said:

17 damage ammo that is basically free is good for a narrow set of uses.  As people mentioned, gold is your standard and easily renewable ammo.

I do not want to make Rock Ammo overpowered, I want to make Rock Ammo useful. You still need to pay rocks to make Rock Ammo. Gold Ammo on the other hand is literally free and comes with a small chance to obtain a better Backpack.

1 hour ago, Toros said:

His hat is quite useful when fighting enemies where damage isn’t reasonably avoidable.

His Straw Hat becomes useless once you get a proper head slot armor.

1 hour ago, Toros said:

Walter is meant to be a high risk/high reward character.

Where's the "high reward"?

[MondayNight]

18 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

Where's the "high reward"?

I suppose the "high reward" part could be.. a lot of morsels in a short time. You can make pretty early on a very low-cost Krampi farm via Anenemies, Feather Hat and Friendly Scarecrow. One can even view it as fun - if no Sack, at least you'll get loads of food (Morsels and MM) which can be further converted into gold. Otherwise any ranged tactic players might use against bosses just takes a lot more time than the classic Ham Bat + Football Helmet/Log Armor (lowest cost/highest efficient combo).

[Well-met]

the high reward is never getting hit by the evil monsters - a concept thats very often inevitable in melee; especially on multiplayer servers.

[Viktor234]

5 minutes ago, Well-met said:

the high reward is never getting hit by the evil monsters - a concept thats very often inevitable in melee; especially on multiplayer servers.

Sounds boring to me.

[MondayNight]

53 minutes ago, Well-met said:

the high reward is never getting hit by the evil monsters - a concept thats very often inevitable in melee; especially on multiplayer servers.

That can be achieved with any character if player is skillful enough and doesn't lag/rubberband (or adapts to these inconveniences in various ways as well). "High rewards" in a ranged-character's case would be imo more dealt-damage if at full health - or deficient range-damage when injured. Walter theoretically does same damage regardless of his HP. One can say being insane affects this hypothetical done-damage against his prime target (boss) via Shadows minions said target will get (yet Shadows can plainly be baited and ignored while dealing with prime target). Debatable.

[Cheggf]

20 hours ago, Well-met said:

the high reward is never getting hit by the evil monsters - a concept thats very often inevitable in melee; especially on multiplayer servers.

Getting hit is the risk and dealing damage is the reward. You're describing low risk low reward. A high risk high reward character would be the opposite, like if Wolfgang had Maxwell's health or something.