Questions about Morale gains and timings

[suxkar]

Hello! Are all morale buffs applied when dupes wake up?

I was wondering this because some morale bonuses do not sync with the duration of cycles.
For example, Juicers, Soda fountains and Espresso Machines give their bonus for 0.75 cycles. Does that mean that when they use the respective building, they do not receive immediately the buff, but they wake up with it? So it is consistently taken in consideration for gaining the overjoyed status?

What about nature reserve? If I remember correctly it lasts only 0.4 cycles. Does it get refreshed on subsequent visits to nature reserves? Is it given immediately or when they wake up?

Finally, was anyone able to include beachchairs to their schedule while avoiding the mess they cause with sleep time?

 

[Gurgel]

As far as I know, morale bonus is applied directly with the activity that causes it at this time. The exception is decor, which I am not quite sure about.

For the parks, I have one before the showers (morning) and one before the only base exit. You cannot easily assure this one to be up all the time, but given how cheap it is, that is quite acceptable IMO.

[MorsDux]

I dont usually rely on these morale bonuses. I try to max decor and food morale asap as those are highly reliable. 

[Coolthulhu]

There is no relation of sleep and morale effects, other than sleep in certain rooms causing bonuses. It would be wasteful to apply drinks before sleep because of their effects, but drinks suck anyway.

Bonuses of the same type just renew their duration. Last time I checked, parks removed the bonus for reserves, so try not to have any parks.

[sheaker]

Keep Your morale 20+ above desired morale. This will increase chances of getting bonuses to max.

"Overjoyed responses are positive effects that can occur when the morale of a duplicant is higher than necessary for their job requirements. Morale is checked when a duplicant finishes sleeping. If morale exceeds morale expectation by over 8 points, there is a 2% chance the duplicant will awaken with an overjoyed response. This probability rises linearly with morale up to a maximum of 5% chance with 20 excess morale."

But anyway I care about my Duplicants so I am always trying to get as high morale as possible.

Nature reserve gives You +6 morale. If You place it well it will do the great job:

[lee1026]

Yeah, but 5% chance at an overjoyed reaction really don't do that much. Wee, a dupe is 50% more productive 5% of the time. That is like, 2.5% more productive. I barely care! 

 

Small marginal gains like that matter when I am fighting for survival in the early game, but getting to +20 morale isn't going to happen in the early game.

[sheaker]

6 minutes ago, lee1026 said:

Yeah, but 5% chance at an overjoyed reaction really don't do that much. Wee, a dupe is 50% more productive 5% of the time. That is like, 2.5% more productive. I barely care! 

 

Small marginal gains like that matter when I am fighting for survival in the early game, but getting to +20 morale isn't going to happen in the early game.

There is more than that:

I like 10% chance to skip working ...

Balloon Artist is also pretty good.

I mean the point is when there are 10 Dupes with 5% chance then there is 50% chance of something good. For me it is worth.

[lee1026]

10% chance to skip working is the same as a 10% productivity boost (less, actually, since the worker still have to run there to begin with). 

 

Balloon Artist one is the only one worth caring about, but 5% is way too small for that.

[psusi]

I didn't realize the chances were that small.  It really doesn't seem worth it then.  Super productive really doesn't seem to be worth anything since most of the time, they are doing a task that otherwise would only take a few seconds anyway, and that's much less than the time it took them to travel there in the first place.  The best case would be running a metal refinery since it not only saves the dupe's time but the power the refinery consumes.  Too bad there's almost no chance that 1) dupe activates joy response, and 2) same dupe gets assigned to run the metal refinery, and 3) the 10% chance actually triggers while running the metal refinery.

Sparkle streakers are nice because they can make everyone else run faster too.  But if it only activates 5% of the time... meh.

[TheMule]

 

7 minutes ago, psusi said:

best case would be running a metal refinery

Yes. But there's the rock crusher, glass forge, oil refinery, molecular forge... it's not bad for an operator. I wonder if it applies to tuneups as well.

For other dups idk. Does it apply to shearing? I doubt it.

[psusi]

1 hour ago, TheMule said:

 

Yes. But there's the rock crusher, glass forge, oil refinery, molecular forge... it's not bad for an operator. I wonder if it applies to tuneups as well.

For other dups idk. Does it apply to shearing? I doubt it.

I'm pretty sure that it applies to shearing, but that doesn't save you much.  Neither does tuneups ( though I've never seen the point in using those ).  The big savings are the metal refinery, glass forge and molecular forge since they take a lot of power.  I'm pretty sure the oil refinery also doesn't really benefit from it since the dupe operation only lasts for a second anyhow and then the machine keeps running on its own afterwards for some time.  When you factor in a small number of jobs that have any real benefit on top of it only activating on 10% of jobs done on cycles where they wake up with the bonus, which at best is only 5%, that's pretty worthless.  I mean even if the dupe did nothing but run the metal refinery all day, when the bonus activates, it saves you say... 1200 * 20 seconds = 24 kJ of power.  If they run 20 batches through the metal refinery in a cycle and get 2 of them completed instantly that's 48 kJ of power saved on the days when they get the bonus, which is only at best every 20 days on average.  So even under the most ideal circumstances, that's an average power savings of only 4 watts.  You are the weakest link.

[suxkar]

I agree with super productive, The problem with it is not just how unlikely it is to have a meaningful activation, it also basically scales negatively with a dupe's ability. I saw a thread where a comparison was made and, although I can't remember the numbers (which are easy to compute), super productive sucks even on operators if they are high level since they only save a minimal fraction of time. The higher the skill the less time is saved.
My base has 36 dupes and almost all of them are sparkle streakers or balooon artists. If I can get to around +10 extra morale I should have on average one overjoy reaction per cycle. It should be a noticeable buff, although it's probably more efficient to just have dupes work more instead of taking extra downtime to use recreational buildings.
I haven't seen you mention Sparkle Streaker: in my opinion it's the best of all, +5 athletics on all dupes the streaker crosses path with is crazy in a lategame base where everything is far apart.

[TheMule]

11 minutes ago, suxkar said:

+5 athletics on all dupes the streaker crosses path with is crazy in a lategame base where everything is far apart.

I've never paid attention. Does athletics do anything for dups who travel in transit tubes?

Most commutes in lategame bases are on transit tubes anyway.

[suxkar]

3 minutes ago, TheMule said:

I've never paid attention. Does athletics do anything for dups who travel in transit tubes?

Most commutes in lategame bases are on transit tubes anyway.

I don't think it does, which does limit the usefullness of Sparkle Streaker. Still, even on late game bases, there will likely be many areas that still require dupes to walk, and tubes become as fast as walking at 24 athletics it seems:

So yeah, not INCREDIBLE, but still useful I'd say. 

[TheMule]

8 hours ago, suxkar said:

I don't think it does, which does limit the usefullness of Sparkle Streaker. Still, even on late game bases, there will likely be many areas that still require dupes to walk, and tubes become as fast as walking at 24 athletics it seems:

So yeah, not INCREDIBLE, but still useful I'd say. 

Tubes are mainly to replace stairs. In fact, I mostly use them to go upwards. I place them in lower part of the map. Once you get up, you can go down via poles, maybe not as fast but definitely power-free. Tube for horizontal movements are basicly a waste of power.

One missing piece is a "bridge" that allows to specify a direction in the tubes. Or maybe make stations one way only (you can enter the tube system with them but not exit).

Of course tubes can cross walls w/o doors. No water locks, nothing. Perfectly air tight. So they still can be useful. Very expensive (power wise) as liquid lock replacements, tho.

[Denisetwin]

1 hour ago, TheMule said:

One missing piece is a "bridge" that allows to specify a direction in the tubes. Or maybe make stations one way only (you can enter the tube system with them but not exit).

Can't you just add a door before the tube entrance and specify it as one way only?  I'm not at home to show this, but basically set the door on default one direction only

[TheMule]

6 hours ago, Denisetwin said:

Can't you just add a door before the tube entrance and specify it as one way only?  I'm not at home to show this, but basically set the door on default one direction only

good idea I might try that.

[dearmad]

On 4/23/2020 at 8:40 AM, sheaker said:

Keep Your morale 20+ above desired morale. This will increase chances of getting bonuses to max.

"Overjoyed responses are positive effects that can occur when the morale of a duplicant is higher than necessary for their job requirements. Morale is checked when a duplicant finishes sleeping. If morale exceeds morale expectation by over 8 points, there is a 2% chance the duplicant will awaken with an overjoyed response. This probability rises linearly with morale up to a maximum of 5% chance with 20 excess morale."

But anyway I care about my Duplicants so I am always trying to get as high morale as possible.

Nature reserve gives You +6 morale. If You place it well it will do the great job:

That ladder pole park is... so, just, so cynical...

 

I can't even.

 

"It's a park! No machinery..."

[Denisetwin]

On 4/23/2020 at 10:52 AM, sheaker said:

There is more than that:

I like 10% chance to skip working ...

Balloon Artist is also pretty good.

I mean the point is when there are 10 Dupes with 5% chance then there is 50% chance of something good. For me it is worth.

THANK YOU for posting this~!!  I have several sparkle streakers and I just thought it was a cute thing and could NOT figure out why some of my non-sparkle streaker dupes were funny eyes and skipping all over like they were high and wondered if they were going slower than when they normally ran.  I was always trying for balloon artists as I love watching them bob around but dang, sparkle streakers are great!  I hate sticker bombers as I usually cover every spare inch in the base with portraits so there isn't any place to sticker bomb.