Wendy's Rework is Great! What About Webber?

[kilobit]

So... Wendy's rework is out. It's phenomenal. From the short, to just her being more fun and in-depth to plat. Kudos to Klei for making all the right shots with Wendy, managing to make her stronger while keeping her fundamentally identical.

Although another concern of this... is where this leaves Webber mains. As a lot of people may know, Wendy was ALREADY able to fulfill Webber's niche... but she hadn't QUITE overshadowed him. Those spiders still had some use in combat. But now... she does Webber's job better than Webber himself. Abigail shreds through not just spiders, but any other horde mob. What does that make Webber? 

Obsolete.

Webber has a really rough early game... as unless you find a ton of spiders in some place that's somewhat convenient, you're not going to be able to take advantage of any of his powers. Like... at all.

As a character, Webber currently provides nothing overly substantial to a team. He can gather things such as silk or monster meat with relative ease, but it's a task that takes a little bit of effort, as well as resources. Here's what it takes to harvest resources from spiders as Webber.
-One piece of meat, any will do
-Unless you have a mob to bait spiders out with, it must be dusk or night
-Perfectly cancel an attack at the last moment to aggro the spiders onto each other
-Wait a damn long time, depending on what you're working with.
All of this, and one spider will still be left remaining in the end.
Now what do you need for Wendy?
-Abigail's flower (you start with one)
-The ability to right click with your mouse
Abigail should come out basically unscathed, and not only that, but her killing potential can be used for things other than spiders. She'll also be done a whole lot faster.

But Webber can recruit spiders! You might say. Well first, you'll need spiders to actually recruit, so if you don't have a plethora of spiders early-game, this won't be useful for a while. Spiders also cost meat to recruit, albeit one piece of meat recruits several. And spiders are generally pretty weak. Although they are better than Abigail for mobs such as Deerclops, they only provide even the slightest value if there's TONS of them. You know what Abigail could do? She could kill all of those spiders within seconds, while at 1 HP, and she'd still survive.

Overall, Webber just isn't too great. Especially now that he's clearly overshadowed by the inseparable twins. Playing as him isn't much fun either. He's only really at his best when he's slaving away and causing spider wars. A lackluster Webber could be more of a burden to a team than a help, and the few perks that provide some semblance of usefulness only benefit himself. Barely. All of that does not at all balance with being hated by Pigs and Bunnymen, on top of having low sanity. The only synergy he really has... is with himself.

Now, this isn't a nEXT reWorK WeN kLEi rEDOO Te SPiEDEUR PlS. I am extremely grateful for the refresh we've recently gotten, and I simply wish to share my view on where I believe things should go next for our cast. Many people have been saying Maxwell, or Wes. But both of those characters fill their intended purposes pretty well. (Wes' case is debatable but that's not the point)

Wendy's rework leaves Webber in a pretty bad spot, worse than he was before. That's why I think Webber deserves to be reworked next.

What do you guys think? Am I just some whiny dolt, or is there someone who agrees with me? 

[_Skorpeon]

As a Webber main who just had Abby come by and rinse every single one of my Spiders without even taking much of a hit... I very much agree.

As much as I've been pleased with all the reworked and added Starvers so far, I've noticed a decline in Webber's abilities back when Warly was reworked. Not many of the "good" dishes require Monster Meat, and with a Warly around, no one seems to want to make Meatballs. Heck, the one time I had a stack of meat, Warly used it to befriend pigs, then start Pig wars for regular meat.

When Wurt was added, I noticed more people using her Merm stuff more than asking Webber for help. And although dead Webbers give two souls to Wortox instead of just one, there's little one can do for him. Granted, Wort can get souls from spider wars, but I've seen plenty of Worts get their fill of souls just with bees, butterflies, and hounds. I don't think I've ever helped a Wort myself, and I've basically put all my time into Webber...

I agree with Bit; I love the reworks and new characters. I love what Klei's given us so far... but I also feel Webber's just fallen by the wayside with everyone else's reworks so far...

[Mike23Ua]

I react with laugh Emote, People say Woodie does Walani’s job of being a Water Scout Better then Walani can.. so maybe now you will feel Walani’s pain!

Im joking.. of course, but seriously I don’t think the point of these Reworks are to make any single character any more or any less OP, it’s to make them stand out, be unique and offer up totally different play styles from others.

And as far as I’m concerned I love Wendy’s Rework. & Im excited to see what Klei does with the rest of the characters who have yet to be Reworked.

[Canis]

Im willing to bet that Webber's next on the reworking chopping block. He's overshadowed by a lot of reworked/new characters now, is boring to effectively play, and has absolutely nothing going for him after mid game.

Allow me to plug my thread about Webber's rework.

 

[JJ0264]

If your having trouble multiplying spider den early game just base at the Swamp/Caves as there's a bunch of reeds, most fish dishes have at least +20hp giving Webber a ton of healing opinions that Wurt can't utilize; Spider warriors can kill birds/beardling which Abby can't, can farm nightmare fuel more easily then Wendy due to low max sanity + normal dmg (Plus Webber has a beard for winter)

1 monster meat + 3 fish = surf'n'turf for +60hp

2 monster meat + 1 twig + 1 fish = fishsticks for +40 hp

2 fish + 2 kelp = california rolls for +20hp

1 frog leg + 1 mushroom + 2 twigs = frog sandwich for +20 hp

2 monster meat + 2 eggs = 50% of bacon & eggs for +75 hg and +20 hp (Webber can eat monster lasagna)

[Mike23Ua]

Now that Wendy has been refreshed Webber would be cool to see a Rework for, but if the only good thing he has going for him is “more spider army” I can see that getting boring fast.

I would love for his Silk to be flameable, his quotes while examining grass seem to already suggest this was on Klei’s to do list but for one reason or another got scrapped. 

And to be able to tame and mount Spider Queen.

Changing him to be more like real spider would be nice to (Must sleep during Day, can’t sleep at Night)

Other then that... I don’t know- I wouldn’t want to suggest something out of place and totally not fitting of Webber..... so those are the only ideas I could come up with :/ Sorry.

[OMGkawaiiAngel]

the holy trinity, wolfgang, wickerbottom and wx.. they'll surely be nerfed one day

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 minutes ago, Charlie Dark said:

the holy trinity, wolfgang, wickerbottom and wx.. they'll surely be nerfed one day

No, they will be the worst character because people will ask for more op stuff

See woodies rework, even when klei fixed it people asking for more buffs or now in wendy thread making her easier to controll

[OMGkawaiiAngel]

15 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

No, they will be the worst character because people will ask for more op stuff

See woodies rework, even when klei fixed it people asking for more buffs or now in wendy thread making her easier to controll

you can't ask for anything more op for these characters.. wolfgang is literally the strongest character in the game (with a full belly), wx has no downsides, and yeah he can get wet and that's good, if he gets struck by lighting he gets overcharged, wickerbottom can set up huge farms and could feed tons of people, plus she pairs very well with both wolfgang and wx.. IT DOESN'T get any more op!

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, Charlie Dark said:

you can't ask for anything more op for these characters.. wolfgang is literally the strongest character in the game (with a full belly), wx has no downsides, and yeah he can get wet and that's good, if he gets struck by lighting he gets overcharged, wickerbottom can set up huge farms and could feed tons of people, plus she pairs very well with both wolfgang and wx.. IT DOESN'T get any more op!

was a joke... i know they are the most op but i think klei want every character with that amount of power, see how op is woodie that can make the work of 3 people in less time.

Friendly characters are not a bad thing (i prefer that than the vanilla version of willow and her random fires destroying my base) but if klei keep in this way they must add dangers

 

[OMGkawaiiAngel]

48 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

was a joke... i know they are the most op but i think klei want every character with that amount of power, see how op is woodie that can make the work of 3 people in less time.

Friendly characters are not a bad thing (i prefer that than the vanilla version of willow and her random fires destroying my base) but if klei keep in this way they must add dangers

 

yeah sure they should add a few downsides at least. Wolfgang has no downsides. His hunger can be managed with a belt of hunger and stuff, and his bigger sanity drain is not a downside it's an upside, he loses sanity easier, this makes the op dark swords easily renewable.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, Charlie Dark said:

yeah sure they should add a few downsides at least. Wolfgang has no downsides. His hunger can be managed with a belt of hunger and stuff, and his bigger sanity drain is not a downside it's an upside, he loses sanity easier, this makes the op dark swords easily renewable.

i think is more important to work in other stuff than nerf characters when they were in that state even in vanilla with his low hp bosses

i like having a default character like wilson, a hard character like wes and a stupid character like wolfgang. This is not a moba so what if wolfgang is op

And the food downside its easy to manage but its a downside anyways because you have to controll in every moment. Im playing in a 600days world with wolfgang and you cant imagen how free i felt when i played with my friend in other world as woodie, so relaxed without having to babysist my belly (when i play wolfgang i check the belly every 20 secs xD). Its also fun to have a character that his gameplay its just being ridicuolus strong

But i see your point, some characters like wx, wortox, woodie, wolfgang and wickedbottom are so ahead but meanwhile you can beat everything with every character (even if a lot of work is needed) i will be happy. Differents gameplays makes the game richer

[bruhmoment23]

13 hours ago, _Skorpeon said:

Abby come by and rinse every single one of my Spiders without even taking much of a hit.

Basically this

 

[00petar00]

I don't know why you say Maxwell is in a much better spot compared to Webber?

Woody rework made him quite obsolete.

Honestly i think stone fruits also put him in a bad spot as you'll still gather a lot of stone from it and usually you have farms in late game that will give you enough possibilities to trade with pig king for gold so you can have golden tools.So Only option is if you stock up on them and use Maxwell as a swap character to mine them.

Maxwell was supposed to be a go to character when you want to gather big amount of basic resources like wood/stone/gold, now he doesn't have that value any more.

I think that both Webber and Maxwell are in similar spot.

[kilobit]

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

I don't know why you say Maxwell is in a much better spot compared to Webber?

Woody rework made him quite obsolete.

Honestly i think stone fruits also put him in a bad spot as you'll still gather a lot of stone from it and usually you have farms in late game that will give you enough possibilities to trade with pig king for gold so you can have golden tools.So Only option is if you stock up on them and use Maxwell as a swap character to mine them.

Maxwell was supposed to be a go to character when you want to gather big amount of basic resources like wood/stone/gold, now he doesn't have that value any more.

I think that both Webber and Maxwell are in similar spot.

Maxwell still fulfills his purpose and has a playstyle that (in my opinion) can be fun. Webber just sucks to play as 

[JJ0264]

I think Maxwell is going to drastically change for his refresh probably magic base-character, as Wurt has basically the same thing as Maxwell but with merms (plus Woodie)

[00petar00]

1 hour ago, bitcrushed_rage said:

Maxwell still fulfills his purpose and has a playstyle that (in my opinion) can be fun. Webber just sucks to play as 

I agree that Webber is in a worse situation but Maxwell isn't that much better, there's no real reason for you to ever pick either one of them.

[Mike23Ua]

6 hours ago, Charlie Dark said:

yeah sure they should add a few downsides at least. Wolfgang has no downsides. His hunger can be managed with a belt of hunger and stuff, and his bigger sanity drain is not a downside it's an upside, he loses sanity easier, this makes the op dark swords easily renewable.

As I have said a million times before, and I’ll continue to say every time I feel the need to arises.. Every character Rework has so far been less about making them any more or any less OP.. the theme behind the Reworks have been to flesh out a character and make each of them interesting to play as, unique, and valuable in their own special way.

When it comes to Reworks we should FIRST look at all Klei Official Artwork, Vignettes, Loading Screens, Etc... pay attention to what their doing, the scenery they are placed in and what they are holding.

So for example..: In a good bit of Wolfgang’s Images we often see him holding up a Dumbell.. so I could realistically see him needing an almost Full Belly AND a Short Dumbell workout being what he needs to mantain mighty form.

Before you all cry that a suggestion like that would completely break Wolfgang, Please keep in mind that Wendy now has to stop moving and go through literal “Ghost Whisperer” Animations to Trigger Abigail.....

So if Wolfgang needed to take just as long to Buff himself up, it suddenly doesn’t feel so broken anymore Huh?

But since this thread is about Webber and NOT Wolfgang.. I will shut up now as to not derail it any further.

I just hope they make Webber fun, I want him to be able to do unique stuff.. like maybe craft spider silk and turn that into cloth.. idk- Cloth was a Thing in DS Shipwrecked... but you defiantly did not make it out of Spider Silk!

[Mysterious box]

Call me a crazy person but I feel like Wolfgang isn't as overpowered as he used to be by comparison speed is his best selling point which can't be matched outside of character specific traits which is something everyone is starting to get but when you talk about his 2x damage while it is amazing to be able to do the damage of 2 players it can be topped now via semi perm followers known as merms as well as winona's catapults which have become increasingly easier to spam with the introduction of stone fruit and yes I know their ability is shareable which for some reason means bad these days but I feel that's  a bonus not a minus in my bopk

[kilobit]

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

I agree that Webber is in a worse situation but Maxwell isn't that much better, there's no real reason for you to ever pick either one of them.

Well... ya got me there. Neither of them are very good...

Either one being refreshed would be very fine with me, but I feel like Maxwell would be near the end... due to it being Maxwell. But we'll see!

[Sweaper]

If there were skyscrapers in the Constant, Webber would be OP, look at how good my boy Spiderman is doing with his web power. That being said, we need more silk based crafts that are preferably consumable, yes we have clothes and tents, but if there are any Webber or Wendy (or enslaved bunnyman) doing what they do best there will be stacks upon stacks of unused silk, might as well make Webber use more silk since now he just makes drawings with his silk around the base.

And maybe make him better for caves? Or some incentive go in there. Just so it becomes less scary for casual players, since I rarely see one exploring caves.