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flapee

Cooling abysssalite or how to ignore heat conductivity

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flapee    70

Capture-pre.PNG.02e29e071f7b9e382dcfc48be58ca5c7.PNG

What happens when liquid chlorine gets in contact with abyssalite under the just right circumstances? Both have extremely low heat conductivity, so no change should occur. Right? Except one!

Spoiler

phase change 

Capture.PNG.a40be865a17237a673f07916e1fe1b6b.PNG

 

 

 

similarly as with insulation "flaking", "burping" - liquid's phase change (PCh) occurs under the right circumstances:

  • heat source temperature is above PCh temp
  • target's mass is larger than 5kg
  • enough energy in the heat source to stay in the same phase and temp remains above target's PCh temp
  • compared to solid's PCh, where only gas can be the heat source, liquid's PCh can be triggered by source in any phase.
  • it's possible to displace the target/source as we need room for newly created material*

*if the displacement rule is omitted, flaked liquid is lost (cause it's created as a liquid drop + one element rule); source looses way more energy(bug or calculation optimization :D ?) 

with getting PCh in the opposite direction ( gas->liquid, liquid->solid )  might somebody else have a better luck

knowing this, we can either force the PCh to occur, or plan our builds to avoid it:

  • rapid boiling / heat pipes
  • primitive early game petroleum cooker 
    Spoiler

    splat crude over abyss, same as with chlorine

     

  • pump made from basic ores pumping hot gases
    Spoiler

    Capture1.PNG.ab762c221277e9d2d7d494a924bc9b07.PNG

     

  • better liquefaction builds(LOX, LH2, LSG, ...): when avoiding PCh, better efficiencies can be reached, because sometimes PCh in terms of energy bugs out and the system (gas and liquid) as a whole GAINS energy :-/, which means more work for AT
  • getting tungsten from abbysalite  using Abyssolator™
  • debug tools are the limit, go find more

and sometimes you just get the bugged out result

image.png.6028b2c6b7896812f2c336bbf0be1fda.png

the only initial difference was the amount of the steam, yet 20kg steam is colder than 10kg steam, and yet both tungsten blobs have the same weight and temp

 

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nakomaru    1,429

I think this instant phase change mechanic explains why my insulated insulation is -255C in my hydrogen room, and why you can get steam out of 20C water in some circumstances. Thank you!

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abud    474

When this happen, energy moved or not? For example abyssalyte in first picture, is it reduce temperature after chlorine change to gas?

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nakomaru    1,429
7 minutes ago, abud said:

When this happen, energy moved or not? For example abyssalyte in first picture, is it reduce temperature after chlorine change to gas?

Yep. My insulated insulation gave off 300K worth of heat energy until it couldn't boil hydrogen anymore.

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flapee    70

thanks Maths, found one more recent from @Coolthulhu as well

 

interestingly, your's find shows the insta-PCh hase been a known phenomenon, but unfortunately, none of the heat transfer (calculation) topics mention it.

They were hearty read, but way too detailed for practical application, where the comments and follow up come with interesting quirks. 

It would be really helpful for the newcomers if someone wrote up a brief practical application of heat transfer and it's quirks. Or they end up reinventing the wheel :D 

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mathmanican    2,341
41 minutes ago, flapee said:

Or they end up reinventing the wheel

Sometimes I feel like that's what we do most days. :) I try hard to check my posts before I put them up, but sometimes fail and reinvent the wheel again and again. Even with a nice post put up ( like @martosss, electricity tutorial), people can't find it (or refuse to read) and wheel inventing happens regardless.  

Your post above gave a nice succinct description of the issue.  Loved it. 

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nakomaru    1,429

We are but human! For some reason I must not have comprehended it from the earlier thread. Clearly Coolthulhu did. One further rule he says is that it happens in exactly 5kg chunks, not ≧5kg chunks.

Maybe it's what this is referring to:

freeze.png.bc655763aece248adcb0406d7d64052f.png

Liquid hydrogen (if at least 5kg) will bypass conductivity to absorb heat down to ~255C depending on heat capacity. Still learning!

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mbugra    3

Tempshift plate work excellent with abyssalite. I used to dig boulder and move debris to cool it down. 3 steam turbine to cool down this boulder.

image.thumb.png.3ec1d26913720ea25386f952e64d0888.png

Also you can have molten lead or copper this way.

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flapee    70
43 minutes ago, mbugra said:

Tempshift plate work excellent with abyssalite

You took the title LITERALLY. Yet a great find!!!

For those trying to use this logic in reverse to melt abyss into tungsten, don't bother. Yes, it's doable, but painfully SLOOOOOOOOOOOOW. It would take on the order of hundreds of cycles. I tried :D . Abyss surrounded with 8 TS plates slurping on tonnes of steaming steel. I would rather recommend Abyssolator™

 

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flapee    70
31 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

We are but human! For some reason I must not have comprehended it from earlier thread. Clearly Coolthulhu did. One further rule he says is that it happens in exactly 5kg chunks, not ≧5kg chunks.

Ha, my bad in explaining. Yes the newly created flake/burp/sweat/drop is always multiple of 5kg. But the transformation does not occur if the original element(LH2) has exactly 5kg.

So the flash boil off occurs the moment, any of the tiles LH2 exceeds 5kg and is next to "hot" insulation tile, this eventually stops, as the LH2 evaporation forces heat transfer even from the insulation ( as the HC is ignored  ) 

Or you can stop liquefaction if the LH2 level is about to hit 5KG

31 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

Liquid hydrogen (if it least 5kg) will bypass conductivity to absorb heat down to ~255C depending on heat capacity

You got the idea right, except it's >5kg, going to -249.2*C as for the HC, your mileage might vary, as the calculation is bugged

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nivodeus    36

I thought Abyssalite supposed to give 0 heat transfer after the update? (It was very low before, during the time when we could still build tile with Abyssalite, a long long time ago)

Or is it still transfer heat only at a minuscule rate? 

I've been encountering this every time I open up to the lava biome, and in the back of my mind I always thought, right, the first layer of Abyss will always transfer heat, not realising that other abyssalite in other biome doest behave that way. Or probably since liquid has higher heat transfer multiplier that it is easier to notice than with gas. 

SO back to my question, does Abyssalite still transfer heat? It looks like it still, and is it a bug or is it intended to be that way? 

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Rebrait    39
29 minutes ago, nivodeus said:

I thought Abyssalite supposed to give 0 heat transfer after the update? (It was very low before, during the time when we could still build tile with Abyssalite, a long long time ago)

Or is it still transfer heat only at a minuscule rate? 

I've been encountering this every time I open up to the lava biome, and in the back of my mind I always thought, right, the first layer of Abyss will always transfer heat, not realising that other abyssalite in other biome doest behave that way. Or probably since liquid has higher heat transfer multiplier that it is easier to notice than with gas. 

SO back to my question, does Abyssalite still transfer heat? It looks like it still, and is it a bug or is it intended to be that way? 

it is a bug, if the abyssalite is hotter than the phase change temp(like +100ºC for water or +400º for oil), it will transfer the heat very fast.

the last brothgar video show this!

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