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selereth

Performance of the game post launch is terrible

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Dextrome    10
4 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

If you have a computer with a discrete graphics and integrated graphics, try disabling the discrete graphics and you'll find there is zero performance difference. So yeah, naturally it does "use" a GPU but it doesn't have any effect on performance which one it is. A MX150 runs this game just as well as a 2080ti.

Hmmm interesting... I don't have a integrated GPU on my board or CPU so I can't test  that out

But I do notice the game using my discrete GPU (discrete GPU = graphics card right?)

Ok apparently it only uses my discrete GPU's memory... but doesn't use the processor at all, as far as I can tell

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Saturnus    3,326
5 minutes ago, Dextrome said:

Hmmm interesting... I don't have a dedicated GPU so I can't test  that out

But I do notice the game using my graphic card's GPU and memory when looking at my monitoring tools

I should note that on a laptop this might be different since if you have a CPU with iGPU then the package shares a power target, so if you run higher resolutions your GPU will be used more, simply because it has to handle more pixels being drawn, and since the iGPU is favoured in the power target calculation that might leave less power available for your CPU, resulting in lower performance. 

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Nicz    16

Not being graphically demanding =/= not using GPU at all. That is quite a stretch.

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Dextrome    10
Just now, Nicz said:

Not being graphically demanding =/= not using GPU at all. That is quite a stretch.

But you can could offload some CPU processing to GPU for increased performance though... I mean seeing how it's a game, I think it's safe to assume the user has some sort of GPU

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Nicz    16
2 minutes ago, Dextrome said:

But you can could offload some CPU processing to GPU for increased performance though... I mean seeing how it's a game, I think it's safe to assume the user has some sort of GPU

I dont think it is that easy. They are called CPU and GPU for a reason, you know ;). If the graphics in the game are simple 2d sprites there is not much that you can "offload" into the graphical processor, methinks,

Give or take i dont blame Klei for lowered preformance. I think its natural for almost 100% CPU bound game to get slower with every new content and bugfix.

Especially when bugfixes may be just a bunch of additional checks to prevent unintended/exploity behaviour which was allowed by the engine previously.

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selereth    59
23 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

If you have a computer with a discrete graphics card and integrated graphics o the CPU, try disabling the discrete graphics card and you'll find there is zero performance difference. So yeah, naturally it does "use" a GPU but it doesn't have any effect on performance which one it is. An i7 iGPU runs this game just as well as a 2080ti.

Well actually, my laptop with a dedicated GTX 1060 and integrated graphics runs the game better on dedicated vs. integrated, it's about a 10-20 FPS difference. 

 

Quote

I should note that on a laptop this might be different since if you have a CPU with iGPU then the package shares a power target, so if you run higher resolutions your GPU will be used more, simply because it has to handle more pixels being drawn, and since the iGPU is favoured in the power target calculation that might leave less power available for your CPU, resulting in lower performance. 

Whoops, read this after posting. 

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Aelfled    37

Some of the numerical processing might be possible to offload to the GPU but there are probably concerns about numerical stability

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Saturnus    3,326
2 minutes ago, selereth said:

Well actually, my laptop with a dedicated GTX 1060 and integrated graphics runs the game better on dedicated vs. integrated, it's about a 10-20 FPS difference. 

Obviously. That is self-evident from what I wrote above. When you're not using the iGPU at all on a laptop the entire power target is dedicated to the CPU.

17 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

I should note that on a laptop this might be different since if you have a CPU with iGPU then the package shares a power target, so if you run higher resolutions your GPU will be used more, simply because it has to handle more pixels being drawn, and since the iGPU is favoured in the power target calculation that might leave less power available for your CPU, resulting in lower performance. 

 

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selereth    59
3 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Obviously. That is self-evident from what I wrote in what you quoted. When you're not using the iGPU at all on a laptop the entire power target is dedicated to the CPU.

Yes... I hadn't read that post yet. 

 

7 minutes ago, Nicz said:

I dont think it is that easy. They are called CPU and GPU for a reason, you know ;). If the graphics in the game are simple 2d sprites there is not much that you can "offload" into the graphical processor, methinks,

Give or take i dont blame Klei for lowered preformance. I think its natural for almost 100% CPU bound game to get slower with every new content and bugfix.

Especially when bugfixes may be just a bunch of additional checks to prevent unintended/exploity behaviour which was allowed by the engine previously.

This doesn't make sense when you look at how rockets are performing right now. A number of players have reported that launching rockets causes immense stuttering and FPS drops that make the game unplayable. This is not natural in any sense of the word, it's a glitch and glitches can/need to be fixed.

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Darkin Coaled    176
42 minutes ago, aresd said:

the game draws graphics with a pencil, don’t you put pencils into your computer? you need to constantly refill your computer with pencils, red, green and blue.

You mean to say the crank on the side is an internal pencil sharpener? I did not know that...

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NoQuitting    153
1 minute ago, Darkin Coaled said:

You mean to say the crank on the side is an internal pencil sharpener? I did not know that...

UPCSF020800_01_L.jpg

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Nicz    16
2 minutes ago, NoQuitting said:

All we need is a turn based end game mode.

Constant stuttering would make it turn based, no? :D

2 minutes ago, selereth said:

Yes... I hadn't read that post yet. 

 

This doesn't make sense when you look at how rockets are performing right now. A number of players have reported that launching rockets causes immense stuttering and FPS drops that make the game unplayable. This is not natural in any sense of the word, it's a glitch and glitches can/need to be fixed.

Sometimes fixes/features turn into bugs and vice versa. Im just saying that there is cost in progress and its unavoidable.

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selereth    59
4 minutes ago, Nicz said:

Constant stuttering would make it turn based, no? :D

Sometimes fixes/features turn into bugs and vice versa. Im just saying that there is cost in progress and its unavoidable.

I have confidence in Klei's abilities to restore the game to its state of performance pre launch. The game ran very smoothly, even in the late game, during Qol Mk 2 and 3 and I think they can get back to that level of optimization without having to revert the bug fixes. That being said, they can only do that if A) they are first made aware of the issues and B) they're given as much info as possible to help them troubleshoot. 

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NoQuitting    153
3 minutes ago, Nicz said:

Constant stuttering would make it turn based, no? :D

Sometimes fixes/features turn into bugs and vice versa. Im just saying that there is cost in progress and its unavoidable.

No, once you go into turn based mode the game will preload the next 24 hours so you can smoothly enjoy your turn. The con to this mode is you have to wait for the loading per day and you have to be careful because you can only order duplicants around once per day.

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xialeth    35
59 minutes ago, aresd said:

the game draws graphics with a pencil, don’t you put pencils into your computer? you need to constantly refill your computer with pencils, red, green and blue. Some pros replace them with black and white, gaining an increase in efficiency by reducing the color depth. Oh, your whole life you have not used your computer to its full potential, madman

My computer does draw it in pencil, with 1080 different colours! That's what the 1080 in the NVIDIA GTX 1080 stands for, right? :D

But you're right of course. What I was trying to say is something a lot of people have already said: all the computations seem to run on the CPU while the 2d graphics are done on the GPU, but it's not the graphics making the game lag.

From my super short foray into GPU programming, I feel like it might help tremendously with the computations though, since running the gas computations in true parallelism should speed things up, right? Though i'm not sure how actually using the GPU to also compute the graphics would affect it (we only did some quick matrix multiplications on the GPU as part of a architectures of parallel systems block seminar, so I'm by no means an expert). The downside of course would be that porting CPU code to GPU-usable code is... not just as easy as flipping a switch that says "and now use the GPU for this computation!"

 

7 minutes ago, NoQuitting said:

No, once you go into turn based mode the game will preload the next 24 hours so you can smoothly enjoy your turn. The con to this mode is you have to wait for the loading per day and you have to be careful because you can only order duplicants around once per day.


And what do you do if one of your dupes manages to get entombed or fails to get out of something you're constructing before all of the ways out are gone? :confused:

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NoQuitting    153
1 minute ago, xialeth said:

And what do you do if one of your dupes manages to get entombed or fails to get out of something you're constructing before all of the ways out are gone? :confused:

That is why it is called end game mode, you will probably watch your duplicant die or become incapacitated before the end of the day. You won't be able to do tricky digs without building ladders.

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aresd    94
12 minutes ago, xialeth said:

My computer does draw it in pencil, with 1080 different colours! That's what the 1080 in the NVIDIA GTX 1080 stands for, right? :D

But you're right of course. What I was trying to say is something a lot of people have already said: all the computations seem to run on the CPU while the 2d graphics are done on the GPU, but it's not the graphics making the game lag.

From my super short foray into GPU programming, I feel like it might help tremendously with the computations though, since running the gas computations in true parallelism should speed things up, right? Though i'm not sure how actually using the GPU to also compute the graphics would affect it (we only did some quick matrix multiplications on the GPU as part of a architectures of parallel systems block seminar, so I'm by no means an expert). The downside of course would be that porting CPU code to GPU-usable code is... not just as easy as flipping a switch that says "and now use the GPU for this computation!"

Oh, you are so silly)) 1080 - it is pencil storage capacity )))

but seriosly, you are right

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aresd    94
1 minute ago, NoQuitting said:

 

Your participation in the discussion is very important to us. We will call you back

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NoQuitting    153
Just now, aresd said:

Your participation in the discussion is very valuable to us. We will call you back

Thank you, I ran out of threads and had to go to the local sewing store.

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Nicz    16
1 minute ago, NoQuitting said:

Thank you, I ran out of threads and had to go to the local sewing store.

If you use hyperbole in a thread, does that mean you are hyperthreading?

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aresd    94
Just now, Nicz said:

If you use hyperbole in a thread, does that mean you are hyperthreading?

you walk on very thin ice sir :o

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natanstarke    188

Guys the problem is already spotted, late game lag. Now lets turn our efforts to solving solutions.

My choices would be.

Insulated liquid/ gas pipes do not change any temperature with ambient anymore. " this way we spam them late game".

Debris should stop giving bad decor values. 

Gas should cal temperature only with top left right and bottom tiles. " reducing 50% gas temp calculations map wide" ( im definetly not sure on this one plz tell me if this would be too bad).

Destroy germ calculation let it have a number limit like 1000 being max contagion level then the freaking immense ammount of germ calculations stop.

Bring back fixed temperatures to some buildings except for water sieve. Let petrol and nat gas gens drop the water and co2 at fixed temp too no calculations needed.

In resume every not primary output let them be fixed and the primarys may have a heat difference like oil refinery example now " oil enters hot and gives hot petrol, if cold then cold petrol but the nat gas always at set temperature.

Vaccum needs something but im not sure what, maybe only trying to check a gas to be deleted exactly in the middle tile?

 

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aresd    94

Someone do something)

I suggest just checking in the sandbox. Try to destroy gas from a rocket or balance its temperature during launch ))

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