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New "None" Filters


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There was recently a change where "None" was added to filters, in theory I like this change (I can just set it to None instead of some crazy element that would never ever be seen to effectively disable the filter on the line, and until last night I was okay.

Then I had an early-game Filter made from Iron start to overheat, no issue; just replace it with Steel; and this is where the problem began. I deconstructed the original filter, not thinking about it since hey, this has always worked.. and put the new filter in its place.

Now, because of the new None, it starts pouring Polluted Water into my Water Lines, and I'm still not sure I've gotten it out of all the Farm Tiles, repaired all the Electrolyzers and where the Polluted water will pop back up.

Klei Team, please make it so on initial building of a Filter, that the filter is either Disabled, or does not pass any material until we actually select a Filter (even if its none). With the way the new Pipe-Mechanics work its just way way too easy to put unwanted materials in pipes.Filters used to be great because they were damn near guaranteed to filter what you wanted (unlike the Automation-based equivalents) for the price of power.

Or at least for the rest of you, PSA: New Filters replacing old filters, either delete the Power Line, the Input or the output; and don't replace filters in line.

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Are you saying it sent polluted water through the filter output when set to none?

Or are you saying you designed a filter to remove polluted water and expected water to come out the unfiltered end in 100 percent of cases?

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The change of adding None as default to filters is rather useless and detrimental. It basically allows ANYTHING to go through to the exit port instantly on activation regardless if you set the filtered component, while the original blocked gas output on both ports until you selected the filtered output. Now you have to check instantly at its creation and/or before connecting with power.

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So "none" is really "block nothing"? I find that counter-intuitive. I would think that should be called "all" as all the other options are positive ones (describe what goes through). My preference would be to have a real "none" and "all", with "none" (complete block) being the default.

Might be a bug though. Has anybody filed a bug-report for this?

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It technically does from a point of sense.

old Filter at no selection

Fluid -> Entry->[blocked] -> filter point -> exit point

New Filter at default none

Fluid -> Entry-> filter point [Ignored] -> exit point -> Fluid

However, when you are constructing things you do NOT want to have scenario 2. You want to decide when and which goes through.

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So it seems like it's the latter. This means you are are using the unfiltered output as if it is filtered.

If you want only water, filter only water. If you want only polluted, filter only polluted. If you want both, filter both.

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If you want both, you would not bother with a filter (mats and power).

The problem is a quality of life issue more really. Its default None Stance causes it to act like a normal pipe segment until you designate the filter material. You could argue that to set the stance on the moment of creation of the filter or before powering on. But before this, the filter would act like a block before you choose, so it was handy as in laying the entire blueprint down and switch the filter at your choice.

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I see. It seems you have a suggestion for QOL reasons that you want an additional option: disabled. And for it to be the default.

@Gurgel It functions exactly like it describes. Filter "none" means none go to the filter output and rest go to the output. Filter "all" would mean everything would go to the filter output.

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14 hours ago, Promethien said:

They added the none option as a quick fix for an issue with the filters that was causing a crash.

And as usual it had unintended consequences :/

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8 minutes ago, Promethien said:

Forgetting to reset the filter after removing and rebuilding is hardly a massive downside compared to a game crash.

There is nothing to reset though as it defaults to None, defeating the purpose of building a filter. The very moment you rebuild a filter it's gonna corrupt your filtered pipe.
 

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2 hours ago, Aelfled said:

Yes, but if you are filtering the output of electrolysis and relying on hydrogen going one way and oxygen the other, then you will start breaking machinery.

So... Don't?

It's not hard to simply disconnect the output line first. What you're complaining about is a user error, the filter itself works just as it should intuitively. 

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Just don't connect it to power until you are done.  I'll admit it's kinda annoying when you build it where one previously was, but unplugging things before working on them is something we do in real life so it isn't too far fetched.

Now, granted, I've always wanted switches to be turned off when initially built and this would be a perfect reason for it, just build a switch before a new change to turn off power, do construction, remove or turn on the switch.  Automation wires default to red so you can use a power shutoff and one segment of automation wire to do the same thing but it's not as simple.

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But with that alliteration it would had not caused the filter to pass through any liquids, until you told it so by selecting the proper gas/liquid. With new alliteration it would filter nothing at the get-go, so the cause of damage might be bigger. It was a slight hiccup for sure, but the user friendly option was there (most equipment dont get delivered with the active state on, so its reasonable to expect something not to let things through at the get go before you activate it)

In any case, suggestion would be to have NONE to not allow any liquids /gasses to pass both exits until told what to filter.

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On 7/31/2019 at 12:46 PM, Yunru said:

A pipe that filters nothing should act like... A pipe. 

The old behavior was effectively "disabled by default".

This behavior was great from a gameplay perspective. It had other bugs (namely displaying that it had something selected even though it was effectively disabled), but the underlying behavior was good.

Now setting up filters has an extra step that's really annoying if you forget about it. Not the end of the world, but a step backwards even as they are trying to polish the game.

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2 hours ago, TLW said:

Now setting up filters has an extra step that's really annoying if you forget about it.

Only if you're setting it up in an active pipe. If this was just a bridge none of us would be even having this discussion.

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I prefer the old way as well. Disabled until filter is set makes more sense. Sure "none" is semantically correct in that a filter that filters nothing behaves like a pipe. But, why would you build a filter that behaves like a pipe? It defeats the purpose. Yes there are obvious work-arounds, but it sucks to have to queue up an intentionally incomplete build or destroy a pipe segment in anticipation of the new behavior. User friendliness issue I think; hopefully it gets more polish in the future.

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23 hours ago, Yunru said:

If this was just a bridge none of us would be even having this discussion.

If this was just a bridge, we'd be having a different discussion: filters block until all outputs are built.

This means that you can't insert them seamlessly inline either. If that was the intent, the current behavior does not satisfy that intent.

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