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Lilalaunekuh    847

I thought my experiments and caclulations about cooling solutions that (ab)use critters could be of some interest.

So before they get lost in a post inside an hijacked thread:

The concept is easy:

  • You can´t spoil an egg by overheating it.
  • A critter spawns at a fixed temperature.
  • A baby critter will reset it´s temperature to the spawn value when reaching maturity.
  • On death a critter will delete the stored energy and spawn some meat at a fixed temperature.

=> You try to heat up the egg as much as you can,than the baby critter just to a point it will not die and at least the critter till it dies.

[Sounds like a difficult setup, but all you need is a hot chamber with a fixed temperature so your critters will die after ~6cycles. Or you could engineer it so that all critter can lay an egg before beeing coocked, but you lose some of the cooling potential which the temperature reset on maturity provides.]

 

All DTU calculations asume you heat the eggs just to the same temperature as the critters, but you could exploit this to delete even more heat.

=> Superheating one 2kg egg and the 1kg eggshell (asuming we produce >1000°C lime and substract this heat) can delete up to 19M DTU.

[But this requires thermium, insulation and a lot more work to implement.]

 

 

  • Shine bugs (all morphs):    
    • =>      1,2 M DTU/egg
  • Pufts (all morphs) / Longhair slickster:
    • =>    17,5 M DTU/egg
  • Slickster:
    • =>    33    M DTU/egg
  • Hatches (all morphs) / Pip / Pokeshell / Molten slicksters:
    • =>    35   M DTU/egg
  • Gulp fish / Glossy drecko:
    • =>    52   M DTU/egg
  • Tropical pacu / Gassy Moo:
    • =>   62,5 M DTU/egg
  • Pacu:
    • =>    70   M DTU/egg
  • Shove vole:
    • =>    83   M DTU/egg
  • Drecko:
    • =>    87   M DTU/egg

The values for the pufts are outdated and are now different for each morph.

Additional notes:

  • Killing gassy moo will require at least steel.
  • Killing shove voles will require at least niobium.
  • If we superheat the egg and eggshell the (normal) pacu would provide the best heat deletion for a single egg. [Up to 108M DTU for a pacu compared to 106M DTU for a drecko. This would require thermium in both cases, but a much larger and more complexe build for the pacu version.]
  • To provide some scale:
    • A full time running aquatuner using polluted water can transfer             up to 351M DTU/cycle.
    • A full time running aquatuner using super  coolant can transfer             up to 709M DTU/cycle.
    • A domesticated wheezewort inside a hydrogen atmosphere can delete  up to 7,2 M DTU/cycle.

 

The "old" list which was sorted after the dominant critter morph:

Spoiler

All DTU calculations asume you heat the eggs just to the same temperature as the critters, but you could exploit this to delete even more heat.)

  • Shine bugs: 5kg and just 35K heating range.           
    • =>      1,2M DTU per egg
  • Puft: 50kg and 50K heating range.
    • =>    17,5M DTU per egg
  • Slickster: 50kg and 95K heating range. (Molten slicksters are a bit superior at 35M DTU and longhair slicksters way worse at 17,5 M DTU)
    • =>   33    M DTU per egg
  • Hatch/Pip/Pokeshell: 100kg and 50K heating range.
    • =>    35   M DTU per egg
  • Pacu: 200kg and 50K heating range. (But you need to manage the 3 kinds of eggs, in one of a few possible ways. Pacu spawns have different sized comfortable temperature ranges. Pacu can provide 70M DTU, tropical pacu 62,5M DTU and gulp fish just by 52M DTU cooling per egg.)
    • =>    70   M DTU per egg (Asuming just pacu eggs)
  • Drecko: 200kg and 62,5K heating range. (Random glossy drecko spawns will die in this build to early, so you need to invest some additional effort to make this work. Glossy dreckos provide just 52M DTU per egg)
    • =>     87  M DTU per egg (Asuming just drecko eggs)

11.thumb.png.0c0a79305b723f598a2b61712bc7a4d8.png

This is an easy implementation of a hatch based cooling system. [Just an critter drop-off for excess hatches.]

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abud    474

I accidentally hit ctrl+enter while making list. Panic mode, I hide that post with the intention to edit it. Now, where that post goes? :(

NVM, this is spawn temperature in Celcius.

All family of hatch, puft, shine bug, gassy moos, morb, vole, pokeshell, pip: 20
Drecko: 62.5 Glossy: 42.5
Slickster: 95 Molten: 170 Longhair: 40
Pacu: 30 Gulp fish: -12.5 Tropical pacu: 55

Did I miss anything?

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Lilalaunekuh    847

Ok I am still missing:

  • The spawn temp of all puft/shine bug variants or are all the same as the ones of the "regular" puft/shine bug ?
  • Could you provide the full information for gassy moos and voles
    • Comfortable and livable temperature range and the mass of the egg/critter.
  • Not sure if I made a mistake calculating longhair slicksters, so are you sure with 40°C ? (Could it maybe be 42,5°C?)
    • Please post the comfortable/livable temperature range aswell.

Thank you for your help abud.

[Longhair slicksters should be correct.^^]

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abud    474
Just now, Lilalaunekuh said:

The spawn temp of all puft/shine bug variants or are all the same as the ones of the "regular" puft/shine bug

20C, all of their variants in the first line of the list. Original reply was one critter each line which leads too many lines and mistake submit accidentally.

3 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

Could you provide the full information for gassy moos and voles

Not sure where I can get more accurate information
 

Spoiler

 

image.png.deb42a698702739234f7b4f5b4f34d43.png

Moo mass: 50kg, Vole mass: 25kg, Vole egg mass: 2kg

 

18 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

so are you sure with 40°C, comfortable/liveable temperature range aswell

Yes. Again, not sure where I can get more accurate information

Spoiler


image.png.93c0c677d938956586d6998e04b5d9fa.pngimage.png.3037df9e800188a8698519c29cebb3bb.pngimage.png.5178e9804836575e3e62a2a529ced5a2.png

 

 

26 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

Thank you for your help abud

No problem, I was in the middle of finding out spawn temperature for my base potential problem ahead.

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Lilalaunekuh    847
1 minute ago, abud said:
31 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

Could you provide the full information for gassy moos and voles

Not sure where I can get more accurate information

The ingame database (just click the book in the right corner if you have a critter available) provides the same values you posted in your "slickster spoiler".

 

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abud    474

I didn't type it but instead capture pics in spoiler... because I thought you already guessing printscreen from ingame database.

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Lilalaunekuh    847

I some values in spreadsheets which allow me to tinker with this topic but no access to the real game.

My first idea was an hatch based cooling solution, but in the process I collected the data of some "common" critters aswell.

=> I never wrote down the livable / comfortable temperature ranges for gassy moos and voles.^^

[At least the upper limit for the livable temerature range would be great, so I could complete my list for the heat deletion potential of all critters.]

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nakomaru    1,387
  • Drecko 15C to 110C
  • Glossy Drecko 5C to 80C
  • Hatch -30C to 70C
  • Gassy Moo -200C to 200C
  • Morb ??
  • Pacu -20C to 80C
  • Tropical Pacu 10C to 100C
  • Gulp Fish -50C to 25C
  • Pip -30C to 70C
  • Pokeshell -30C to 100C
  • Puft (all variants) -30C to 70C
  • Shine Bug (all variants) -20.1C to 49.9C
  • Shove Vole -200C to 500C
  • Slickster 35C to 160C
  • Molten Slickster 75C to 270C
  • Longhair Slickster -5C to 90C

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Lilalaunekuh    847

I asume the list contains just the liveable temperature ranges.

The last missing numbers in my equations would be:

  • Mass (gassy moo); temperature range is 20°C spawn to 200°C heat death.
  • Upper livable temperature limit (shove vole); mass should be 25kg and spawn temperature 20°C.

Found the missing numbers.

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badgamer123    101

it seem pacu is the king,fast egg cycle and a lot of mass,tropical seem the best we just need to make sure not heating up tot fast to kill them b4 they lay 1 egg .

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Lilalaunekuh    847
6 minutes ago, badgamer123 said:

it seem pacu is the king,fast egg cycle and a lot of mass,tropical seem the best we just need to make sure not heating up tot fast to kill them b4 they lay 1 egg .

If we go for the heat death we will produce mostly tropical pacu which could absorb 62,5M DTU if we kill them ~ 6cycles after maturity.

But if we want an egg the pacu has to live a bit more than 14 cycles after reaching maturity (inside the comfortable temperature range ?), so I asume we go for a heat death after 14-15 cycles then we will heat the fry (baby pacu) in 5 cycles not even up to half the possible temperature before the reset. [The temperature transfer slows down over time and I don´t want to go real fancy with the calculations, so I asume a "better" value than it should be with 50%.]

 

=> A tropical pacu should provide between 42 and 46M DTU of cooling if we want him to lay an egg. ( ~3,66K DTU/s for each pacu.)

[Asuming fertility goes still up while outside the comfortable temperature range.]

 

 

So if we "superheat"(heat up to 1000°C using rails and an aquatuner made out of thermium) the eggs before hatching and dumb "some heat" into the eggshells before crushing aswell we delete up to 100M DTU using tropical pacu.

Pacu based systems offer the best heat deletion, but have the most problems to solve.

If we want to superheat the eggs, we need them to keep their temperature above 1000°C till the fry hatches.

  • A tile of vacuum for the fry to hatch and then waiting till the fry flops into a pool of liquid nearby could be a solution.
    • But if I want a vacuum near my liquid pool, it makes the use of polluted water impractical. (Active pumps anywhere are no real solution^^)
    • => We would be forced to use brine, which we can only heat to 105°C. (Not sure how long this takes to kill a pacu for a fully filled tile of brine.)
  • Some advanced automation to send the egg into the superheating loop shortly before it would hatch. (But building timers with a couple cycles duration for every egg may be a tedious task.)
  • ...

=> If we asume we solved the above problems a tropical pacu could provide up to 8,5K DTU/s of heat deletion.

 

 

 

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mathmanican    2,318
8 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

Pacu based systems offer the best heat deletion, but have the most problems to solve.

There is an alternative, that I just checked.  It relies basically having the critters ride on rails (not quite, but same principle).  Just trap the critters between mechanical doors, causing them to get stuck inside a door. 

hatchtrap.png.422dcb48217b784dba8119bb530b83e7.png

Notice the hatch behind the middle door. If you deliver critters to the top of this when you are ready for them to die (they laid an egg), then you can trap them inside, Have the metal tiles attached to your heat source, and you can rapidly heat kill them (took 1/4 a cycle with temps near 200C to get the hatch to raise to 70C, immediately dying and becoming barbeque).  Bonus, the meat that drops fell out the bottom the next cycle, at around 200C, ready to pop into the grill for some extra bonus heat reduction. 

The key, have debris (apparently critters are treated like debris) be inside tiles. If you could get a dupe's head stuck in a tile as well, you could use the same principle to rapidly heat them up. Ouch...., let's not go there or we'll join @Yunru's cannibal diet. 

To be honest, you could use something like this with ALL food, at each intermediate stage of cooking, and even at the final stage. The dupes won't care if their frost burger is 500C. :)  They'll eat it happily. Each stage of cooling is essentially extra free cooling. 

Look at all the wonderful cooling options we have @Gurgel. :) 

 

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badgamer123    101
52 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

 

  • A tile of vacuum for the fry to hatch and then waiting till the fry flops into a pool of liquid nearby could be a solution.
    • But if I want a vacuum near my liquid pool, it makes the use of polluted water impractical. (Active pumps anywhere are no real solution^^)
    • => We would be forced to use brine, which we can only heat to 105°C. (Not sure how long this takes to kill a pacu for a fully filled tile of brine.

 

 

I seem to recall they could swim in oil just fine....

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nakomaru    1,387
37 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

took 1/4 a cycle with temps near 200C to get the hatch to raise to 70C, immediately dying and becoming barbeque

Is this a figure of speech, or do they immediately become the cooked item barbeque now?

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Lilalaunekuh    847
34 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

If you deliver critters to the top of this when you are ready for them to die (they laid an egg), then you can trap them inside

1. How can I (ab)use the temperature reset on maturity ? Or do I settle for half the possible heat deletion ?

 

35 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

get the hatch to raise to 70C, immediately dying and becoming barbeque

2. Did I miss something or can we really create BBQ just using raw meat and heat ? (Do you know the conversion temperature?)

 

 

2 minutes ago, badgamer123 said:
56 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:
  • A tile of vacuum for the fry to hatch and then waiting till the fry flops into a pool of liquid nearby could be a solution.
    • But if I want a vacuum near my liquid pool, it makes the use of polluted water impractical. (Active pumps anywhere are no real solution^^)
    • => We would be forced to use brine, which we can only heat to 105°C. (Not sure how long this takes to kill a pacu for a fully filled tile of brine.

 

 

I seem to recall they could swim in oil just fine....

3. Not sure anymore, do you know if they lay an egg inside oil/petroleum ? (Or can they live inside all liquids ? Thinking of phosphorus right now.)

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badgamer123    101
Just now, Lilalaunekuh said:

2. Did I miss something or can we really create BBQ just using raw meat and heat ? (Do you know the conversion temperature?)

I will do it ,I will do it!if they put such stuff in game I will cook allllll the meat in BBQ every single time lol

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Lilalaunekuh    847
6 minutes ago, badgamer123 said:
8 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

2. Did I miss something or can we really create BBQ just using raw meat and heat ? (Do you know the conversion temperature?)

I will do it ,I will do it!if they put such stuff in game I will cook allllll the meat in BBQ every single time lol

You can "cook" raw eggs using just a hot room.

(A conveyor receptacle for raw eggs, a conveyor loader set to omelettes, an auto sweeper and an heat source of at least 72,6°C.)

=> I love the ability to cook puft/shine bug eggs without having to wait for a full 1kg batch.

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mathmanican    2,318
1 hour ago, nakomaru said:

Is this a figure of speech, or do they immediately become the cooked item barbeque now?

My bad. Meat comes out ready to send to grill.

1 hour ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

How can I (ab)use the temperature reset on maturity ?

Have a pool at 69C to send babies through. Then send parents through 200C or higher pool.

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Darkin Coaled    176
5 hours ago, mathmanican said:

If you could get a dupe's head stuck in a tile as well, you could use the same principle...

I keep telling you guys this was a feature that got removed...

Thanks for the idea of a critter killroom. I like.

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