Cooling geyser water for bristle

[Zerkiaz]

So, as the topic says, I need to cool down water from cool slush Cool Steam geyser for my Bristle berry. I've tried to put at least 2 aquatuner but it failed because the aquatuner got over heat, I've tried put the aquatuner near the anti-entrophy and failed (for the same reason) and I just tried passive cooling with radiant pipe around the anti-entrophy. The third times even worse, my surrounding of anti-entrophy got heated up until 30 degree and more, plus the water inside the pipe cool down to slow. so... anyone got any idea?

And also, I tried to not submerge the aquatuner in oil just because I build this as I play and I just got my slickster to produce a little bit of oil.

EDITED : Not Cool slush geyser, but cool steam geyser

[Nightinggale]

Your problem isn't the cool slush geyser as it produces polluted water at -10 C. Instead it's the water sieve because it outputs 40 C water regardless of input temperature. Since it doesn't matter if you heat up the polluted water, what you should do is to merge the temperature of input and output. 40 C water and -10 C polluted water mix to both become 15 C.

This can be done by radiant pipes through the cold polluted water room (insulate it to keep it cold). It can also be done using metal tiles. Radiant pipes transfers heat very quickly to a metal tile if it goes through it and two metal tiles next to each other are nearly the same temperature, meaning metal tiles can be used to transfer heat from one pipe to another.

You can also use metal tiles for the clean water and doors for the polluted water. Automate the doors to turn on/off depending on the temperature of the water and you can automate the output temperature.

Wheezeworts also lowers the temperature and can be used. However I would actually recommend using the polluted water if you can get away with it. There is quite a lot of cooling power in the cold polluted water. Wheezeworts should be in high pressure hydrogen to be effective.

Don't use aquatuners if you can avoid it. They use 1200 W, which is quite a lot. Also as you noticed, you need to think cooling into the equation. Aquatuners are the most useful when you make them out of steel and use them to produce steam for steam turbines. They are extensive and something for advanced setups.

[Zerkiaz]

Ah.. I just realize I type cool slush geyser... I meant for cool steam geyser, my brain just farted because I dealt with this problem for 5 hour straight.

I tried to automate the aquatuner to pass the same water if the water came out more than 30 degree, 

[Nightinggale]

2 minutes ago, Zerkiaz said:

Ah.. I just realize I type cool slush geyser... I meant for cool steam geyser, my brain just farted because I dealt with this problem for 5 hour straight.

You just completely broke my response. It's still a good response, it just doesn't match the setup in your game.

You are effectively asking for how to kill heat. The answer is with steam turbines. A less advanced approach is to use polluted water to cool the clean water. Once the polluted water becomes too hot, place it in an insulated polluted water room. Pump it out when it reach 115 C or similar (100+C kills all germs as a bonus). The water being pumped out should use insulated pipes and go directly to a water sieve. That way it's cooled to 40C. You can place an aquatuner in the polluted water and that way keep it cold enough to operate (needs to be gold amalgam or steel to survive such high temperatures).

You will likely have problems getting enough polluted water for this to work though. A carbon skimmer can turn water (any temperature) to 40 C polluted water. Use this water with a water sieve and you have clean water at 40 C. It's still too hot, but now you can use an aquatuner and use the polluted water to cool it. It's likely way more doable.

 

Somebody should really do a bunch of tutorials for common tasks like this.

[hackcasual]

13 minutes ago, Zerkiaz said:

Ah.. I just realize I type cool slush geyser... I meant for cool steam geyser, my brain just farted because I dealt with this problem for 5 hour straight.

I tried to automate the aquatuner to pass the same water if the water came out more than 30 degree, 

 

That's a good start, if you're having trouble, you probably need a liquid storage tank to act as a buffer. 

For long term sustainability, make your aquatuner out of gold (or even better steel), and have it right next to your geyser. Then put a steam turbine directly above it, with the output of the turbine dripping back into the cistern. As your aquatuners generate heat, they'll make steam, which the steam turbine turns into power, giving you cooling as well.

[Sasza22]

Ok first of all when using aquatuners keep them under water. They still work when submerged. Air just doesn`t transfer heat fast enough and the thing overheats. When in water it will work for quite a while before the water starts boiling (depends on the amount of water). You can run the thing before you build a more complex system.

Best to loop water through the tuner until it`s cool enough (each pass removes 14<sup>o</sup>C). Aquatuning the water from the sieve works better since it`s always 40^oC so eands up being suitable for bristle after one pass.

Alternatively instead of using a tuner you can pump the water to an ice biome where it will cool down while prodcung more water from the melting biome. It`s a nice low power alternative but only works for a limited time.

A steam turbine apporach is obviously a long term solution but it`s not an earlygame design most of the times.

[Neotuck]

Haha I deleted my response because in context I thought you said cool steam geyser.

I said it's not worth the effort as it requires a lot of energy to cool the water

But if you really wanna try set up a skimmer/sieve combo to bring the water down to 40C and use the PW between the two as a "heat dump" for an aquatuner which will bring the water temp to 26C

Note this will require a source of CO2

[Zerkiaz]

Is the amount of water that came inside the aquatuner also make the aquatuner heat up more quickly? So if I keep using aquatuners I should be submerge them in water to prevent them from overheating and also put steam turbine up top maybe?

And also, I think my progress is too slow, I've passed 150 cycles and only explore 3 biome and only just found the oil biome.

[chemie]

best to cross exchange first.  for example, heat up PW going to peppers.  this will cool the geyser water to a more manageable 50 or 60c.  then use tuners and steam turbine

[Nightinggale]

1 minute ago, Zerkiaz said:

Is the amount of water that came inside the aquatuner also make the aquatuner heat up more quickly?

The aquatuner will use 1200 W regardless of how much water there is in the pipe. You should fill the pipe completely. If you do not need full capacity, turn it on and off. Also starting an aquatuner makes it consume as much power as processing one dot in the pipe, meaning you should really batch cool water for max efficiency. If the aquatuner is submerged in enough water, you shouldn't worry too much about cooling.

[Zerkiaz]

Okay, If I could completely submerge the aquatuner in.. let say oil maybe? What should I do with the oil that keep heating up? because if I use water than I should put steam generator up above. I read from the wiki that oil will become petroleum if heated pass 400⁰ C.

[DemainaNyx]

I personally never use the cool steam vent water for bristles.  It's too hot to deal with and much easier to use sieve water for farming and use geyser water for electrolyzers until I have a sustainable base and solid power grid.

Early game a tricky way to grow them is to put them on top of a room full of hydrogen and use a wheezewort or two to cool the hydrogen.  That will keep the plants cool for the most part.  Then I use a liquid value to control the amount of sieve water I give them.  Since sieve water is 40C always, it's a very consistent temperature to deal with and it isn't extremely hot either so it won't heat up the plants too much.  Each plant needs about 33g/s, so if you just estimate 100g/s for 3 plants you can easily measure out how much to set the valve to.

Alternative you can build yourself a homemage cold geyser if you have the power to do so.  This post from a while back shows how to set up an aquatuner setup and freezes water and then reheats it to create extra water.  If you don't want to abuse the extra water bug though you could alter the design a bit to cool down your steam vents water.  Just pipe the hot water from the cool steam vent into the top and wait for it to freeze, then pipe it down below to melt it and now you have 0C water.

43 minutes ago, Zerkiaz said:

Okay, If I could completely submerge the aquatuner in.. let say oil maybe? What should I do with the oil that keep heating up? because if I use water than I should put steam generator up above. I read from the wiki that oil will become petroleum if heated pass 400⁰ C.

You could do it either way.

If you submerge it in oil, you could put automation in there that sucks up the oil if it gets too hot and sends it to your oil refinery to become petroleum. 

Or if you submerge it in water, you can place a steam turbine above it and recycle the cooled water from the turbine back into the room.  You'll need to cool the steam turbine with some wheezeworts or something, but it's doable. 

Or, you could submerge the aquatuner in polluted water, and then when the polluted water is too hot send it to a sieve to be turned to 40C water again.

The steam turbine and sieve ones are the easiest to fully automate as the oil refinery would require dupe interaction unless you've built a petrol boiler (really late game build so probably not).  I would probably go with the steam turbine as deleting heat is it's main job anyway.

[Craigjw]

I use a slush geyser and heat exchange. My hot steam vent produces on average 824g/s of 110c steam, which I exchange with a slush geyser, which produces 2126g/s of cold PW, which I send to various places for cooling purposes .  I initially cool down two Nat gas geysers, then my power station, comprising of 7 oil, coal and nat gas and a large battery bank, then finally it's sent to cool down  materials cooling tank, which cools all metals/minerals etc before entering storage.

The PW is now at about 30c, however, I then re-mix some of the original -9c PW with to bring down the final temperature to about 19c. This I will then send through a gold tile/gold pipe thermal heat exchange, basically swapping the temperature with the water from the Hot steam vent.

The hot steam vent has it's reservoir cooled down by the water exiting the heat exchange, bringing the water down to about 60c and the PW up to also about 60c, then it's piped through the top of the steam vent, condensing the steam, the PW then finally exiting at about 95-97c.  The PW is then sieved into clean water, which I also mix in with the heat exchange unit for a little extra cold water, giving greater cold water output at around 1000g/s

The slush geyser is also used to cool a gold volcano too when it's active, however the PW input to the heat exchange isn't at maximum, so I store a small excess, the reserve is used when the volcano is being cooled.

This water gets sent to moderate the Bristle farm temperature and also to irrigate it.

[hackcasual]

So in theory, you can design a system that requires only a few watts of additional power, but produces ~85C water from a cool steam geyser, without using space materials. Due to the perfect heat exchanging ability of aquatuners, you can split your output by temperature as long as the average temperature is 82C. So you could output 20kg of 25C water, and 80kg of 99C water.

The power generated by a steam turbine is (85/21000) * mass (g) * Δt. Assuming a 10kg packet cooled from 125C to 95C, that's ~1200W. Since steam leaves a geyser at 110C, we just need to add 15C, which is damn close to what the aquatuner will add (at 14C).

TL;DR, Ordinarily an aquatuner cooling water only nets about 50% of its power back from a steam turbine, the output temperature of a cool steam geyser is another free 50%, meaning you can direct about 20% of your geysers output to your farm.

[chemie]

2 hours ago, Nightinggale said:

The aquatuner will use 1200 W regardless of how much water there is in the pipe. You should fill the pipe completely. If you do not need full capacity, turn it on and off. Also starting an aquatuner makes it consume as much power as processing one dot in the pipe, meaning you should really batch cool water for max efficiency. If the aquatuner is submerged in enough water, you shouldn't worry too much about cooling.

Not entirely true.  If the outlet is backed up, then it only processes full 10 kg packets and only uses power for each packet so no penalty hit.  (In other words put a valve in front of tuner and set to 1 kg/s is bad but put the same valve after, and it runs only 10% of the time and gives full 14C cooling to that 10 kg packet.  The packet then slowly bleeds out of the tuner until a new packet fits (the tuner holds 10 kg).

[goatt]

Maybe consider ice-maker. Compared to aquatuner processing water, it provide nearly double as fast heat deletion rate, but only cost 1/10 power. You can make it cool water next to anti-entrophy (or not), and use a diamond template to boost heat exchange water and ice. Ice drops from icemaker into water, and melts to decrease water temperature. So maybe install a weight plate to check if there is enough remainder ice. if too much, ice in water, make ice-maker stop etc.

[Nightinggale]

17 minutes ago, chemie said:

Not entirely true.  If the outlet is backed up, then it only processes full 10 kg packets and only uses power for each packet so no penalty hit.  (In other words put a valve in front of tuner and set to 1 kg/s is bad but put the same valve after, and it runs only 10% of the time and gives full 14C cooling to that 10 kg packet.  The packet then slowly bleeds out of the tuner until a new packet fits (the tuner holds 10 kg).

Of the multiple setups I have tested, that combo haven't been one of them. The startup power cost only happens if it has run the shutdown code/animation. From what you say, preventing the aquatuner from outputing whatever it contains will keep it in a state where it's on, but not consuming power. If so, then it will not waste power on startup.... That's really interesting. You can combine that with a shutoff valve on the output, which is controlled by a full pipe detector on the intake. If the pipe isn't full, block output and you will ensure no startup cost as well as a capacity of 10 kg/s. That's really interesting and something I would most likely use in the future.

It's not perfect though because it means keeping water in the pipe in the steam room. If stalled for too long, it might result in heat damage, even with insulated pipes.

[chemie]

9 minutes ago, Nightinggale said:

Of the multiple setups I have tested, that combo haven't been one of them. The startup power cost only happens if it has run the shutdown code/animation. From what you say, preventing the aquatuner from outputing whatever it contains will keep it in a state where it's on, but not consuming power. If so, then it will not waste power on startup.... That's really interesting. You can combine that with a shutoff valve on the output, which is controlled by a full pipe detector on the intake. If the pipe isn't full, block output and you will ensure no startup cost as well as a capacity of 10 kg/s. That's really interesting and something I would most likely use in the future.

It's not perfect though because it means keeping water in the pipe in the steam room. If stalled for too long, it might result in heat damage, even with insulated pipes.

It is useful for example when tied to a sieve and feeding berries at something below 5 kg/s.  I always ran this design before we had automation with real in-pipe temperature detection.I am not aware of a "start up penalty" though.  It will animate as running and not running but my testing showed it only consumed power when running.  

However, I prefer to run a closed loop aqua tuner with PW (to avoid freeze and as you state avoid any static situation in the steam gen room) and cross exchange with water in a heat exchanger.  This means running the PW in full packets but you still turn off the tuner when a low temp packet is detected. The power usage is dictated by the cooling required since the coolant loop can bypass the water loop when no cooling is needed and also bypass the tuner when it is too cold.

[JohnFrancis]

4 hours ago, Zerkiaz said:

I need to cool down water from cool slush Cool Steam geyser for my Bristle berry.

Ok I'm going to answer your question but not the way you intend. You can solve this problem several ways as has been listed, lots of aquatuners, turn it into polluted water sieve it and then one aquatuner. Their are several ways to turn the water polluted but carbon skimmer is the easiest.

However, have you considered the church of ranching? Stone hatches eat rocks and so long as the room temp is below 70C they don't care how hot or cold the rocks are. They cost no water so just send that hot geyser water to your O2 production, it has a fixed output temp and does not care how hot the water is. With all that extra O2 you can afford to hire a few more dupes why not get some more ranchers? Join the church of ranching today and stop worrying what temperature your water or you base is.

[Nightinggale]

3 minutes ago, JohnFrancis said:

Join the church of ranching today

You are following a fake prophet. We all know stone hatches aren't to be trusted. The true prophet is the molten slickster.

[JohnFrancis]

Just now, Nightinggale said:

You are following a fake prophet. We all know stone hatches aren't to be trusted. The true prophet is the molten slickster.

Until one has mastered the hatch you cannot hope to comprehend the glory of the slickster or the majesty of the vole.

[Zerkiaz]

15 hours ago, Nightinggale said:

You are following a fake prophet. We all know stone hatches aren't to be trusted. The true prophet is the molten slickster.

It's true, the true prophet is molten slickster, and slickster are his men. 

[fredhp]

There is no need to cool the water if you keep the environment cool.

In my bases i adopt the polluted water cooler concept (pipes with cool polluted water running across the base to cool the base...), just need to pass a cooling pipe across the plant and the heat will be absorbed. 

Just make sure to use insulated pipes to feed the hydroponic tiles and it will work "forever".

[hackcasual]

32 minutes ago, fredhp said:

There is no need to cool the water if you keep the environment cool.

In my bases i adopt the polluted water cooler concept (pipes with cool polluted water running across the base to cool the base...), just need to pass a cooling pipe across the plant and the heat will be absorbed. 

Just make sure to use insulated pipes to feed the hydroponic tiles and it will work "forever".

Unfortunately, contents of hydro farms (the hot water) will exchange heat with the environment. Basically they'll sir there with 10kg of water, which will heat the atmosphere directly above the planter.

[fredhp]

38 minutes ago, hackcasual said:

Unfortunately, contents of hydro farms (the hot water) will exchange heat with the environment. Basically they'll sir there with 10kg of water, which will heat the atmosphere directly above the planter.

This is why the cooling pipe should be located directly above the hydrofarm (i wrote 'across the plant' due to my poor very poor english knowledge). The pipe will absorb the heat, keeping the plant cool.