I have never built a spaceship...

[Lali-Lop]

I must confess that I have yet to build and have a spaceship ready for launch.  I would probably be more excited about getting into the space content of the game if I could skip the steam engine and go for the petroleum rocket right away instead (since working with steam feels like more of a hassle.)  Once I get to space and begin working on the infrastructure for the whole thing, everything tends to grind to a halt waiting for enough steel, ceramic, etc. to get made and systems to get built.  Not to mention the issue of "taming" the surface.  At this point, it becomes a bit of a chore for me and I usually get bored and want to start a new colony.

Or maybe I just need to "git gud".  I have to admit I am not as skilled at this game compared to many others on the forums.  Or maybe I just don't have the patience.

[Neotuck]

It's true building a steam rocket to collect your first data banks can be difficult but some think that's just part of the fun

Feel free to ask for advise on early steam rocket building and steam production if you are having difficulty 

[Lali-Lop]

Do people usually pump steam from a vent or make their own?  I had been trying to pump steam from a vent (since it's free), but now I'm thinking that's actually more difficult than it needs to be... Seeing how other people manage their steam rockets would probably be helpful, yeah.  It's just that first big hurdle to get over and then I can completely forget it. 

[Neotuck]

2 minutes ago, Lali-Lop said:

Do people usually pump steam from a vent

Normally no

Steam rockets use a lot of steam and vents have a low output

Also if you are using cool steam vents you risk pipes breaking as it cools into water

Best to make your own and have it near the rocket 

[Lali-Lop]

What a rookie mistake on my part then.  Didn't really think that one through.  Thanks, I will try that next time.  I assume an aquatuner would be best for boiling the water, or is there a more efficient way?

[hypoeffort]

Just put a metal box around some regolith.  Put in drywall a gas pump and a liquid vent.  Have a liquid valve running to it from outside so u can adjust.  If you have bunker doors above it drop regolith on top of it to add more heat later.   Should get you to petrol rockets

[Neotuck]

20 minutes ago, Lali-Lop said:

I assume an aquatuner would be best for boiling the water,

yes, aquatuner works best

you might be able to use a tepidizer with automation to trick it in heating up past 75C but it's not as effective as an aquatuner

and as @Shocker pointed out using hot regolith works too

[tzionut]

This is my phosphorite to phosphorus smelter and solidifier (for feeding my wild azure bugs) 

For you is enough a water lock, tepidizer  whit the above automation (for me 1 sec buffer 3 second filter) and a steal pump whit a thermo sensor set at 115 degrees, and for water input an bothle empier above the tepidizer is enough. This is the easiest setup for a steam generator. Insulated gas pipe for the steam transport ideal igneous rock and you are ready to go

Spoiler

 

[Gus Smedstad]

For me, the key thing for learning how to make steam was to limit the amount of water in the steam chamber. A steam rocket needs 800kg of steam. That's a lot of steam, but not much water. One full tile of water is 1000kg, and it's very easy to overfill a steam-making chamber with too much water. Filling a chamber with, say, 5 tiles of water means you're heating up 5000kg, or 6.25x as much as you will need. Which means it will take a lot longer.

Gas pipes only move 1 kg/s. If you put in a water valve set to 1000 grams/second, you're matching the limit of a gas pipe, so you won't feed water into the chamber faster than two gas pumps and a gas pipe can empty it out.

Similarly, a hydro sensor near the liquid vent can shut off the water flow if you accumulate too much water. In a 5 wide chamber, even 1 kg/tile is plenty.

Phase changes in pipes are a problem. Insulated pipes are very useful to avoid this. A temperature sensor can ensure that the steam is hot enough that it won't condense too quickly in your gas pipes.

In a vacuum, you can also use radiant pipes. The idea is that a radiant pipe heats up rapidly, and once it's the same temperature as your steam, it won't leak any heat at all. The drawback is that you'll lose several steam packets as they heat up the pipe and condense. This destroys the steam and damages the pipe, and it will need repairs.

Personally, I prefer to avoid exploits like cycling the tepidizer on and off rapidly to get around the intended temperature limit. It's a bug, and presumably will get fixed eventually. My go-to steam generator now is a water vent, an aquatuner, and a hydrosensor in an enclosed chamber.

 

[Neotuck]

4 minutes ago, Gus Smedstad said:

Gas pipes only move 1 kg/s. If you put in a water valve set to 1000 grams/second, you're matching the limit of a gas pipe, so you won't feed water into the chamber faster than two gas pumps and a gas pipe can empty it out.

Or you can just use a mini liquid pump for water as the default flow is 1000g/s

saves on power too

5 minutes ago, Gus Smedstad said:

In a vacuum, you can also use radiant pipes. The idea is that a radiant pipe heats up rapidly, and once it's the same temperature as your steam, it won't leak any heat at all. The drawback is that you'll lose several steam packets as they heat up the pipe and condense. This destroys the steam and damages the pipe, and it will need repairs.

In my opinion, the benefits of radiant vacuum insulating for steam far out weigh the loss of a few kilos of water and metal

easy to manage and is temporary until you get your first petro rocket

8 minutes ago, Gus Smedstad said:

Personally, I prefer to avoid exploits like cycling the tepidizer on and off rapidly to get around the intended temperature limit. It's a bug, and presumably will get fixed eventually. My go-to steam generator now is a water vent, an aquatuner, and a hydrosensor in an enclosed chamber.

You and me both

[Gus Smedstad]

Just now, Neotuck said:

Or you can just use a mini liquid pump for water as the default flow is 1000g/s

I've never built a pump specifically to service a steam chamber. I've always connected my steam chambers to a general water supply.

[JohnFrancis]

@Lali-LopBelow is a tutorial on "how to do rockets" you will need to use the steam rockets twice to get enough research to switch to Petroleum. Your right about steam it's terrible. Some of the later steam turbine stuff is out of date with QoL Mk3 but should be easy enough to modify.

Spoiler

 

 

[Lilalaunekuh]

Not sure about you guys, but my first steam rocket starts are done caveman style:

Just pump some water on top of regoltih close to the surface and your done. (Or use a naturally created steam pocket close.)

After I got my solid fuel booster I (ab)use them without fueling my rocket. So no more pipes needed and I mostly skip the petroleum engine. (My "pipeless" rockets are build using petroleum engines with a fuel tank but no oxidizer tank just cause it´s the lightest setup.)

[FiannaTiger]

I caveman it up as well.  I build a box with some water maybe 400g of water and then drop in 300c regolith to warm it up to steam.  I use ceramic pipe out to the rocket.  I could improve it with a vent to release the excess steam and a automation to turn off the pump but I normally don't bother and get nice hot steam and put it into the pipe and almost never have a problem with it breaking as the piping is all in a vacuum.

[Gus Smedstad]

I don't understand using solid boosters when you've got petroleum, since they'e significantly less efficient than petroleum rockets. 30km/kg instead of 40km/kg. Or rather, 15 km / kg vs. 20 km/kg if you include oxidizer mass and are using oxylite. The solid thruster masses as much as a liquid fuel tank and an oxidizer tank combined, and only has a capacity of 400kg fuel + 400kg oxidizer, which less than half that of a petroleum tank. Basically, show me a petroleum / booster rocket, and I'm pretty sure you can accomplish the same mission for less cost with a straight petroleum rocket.

It's not like pipes are a big deal. Nor do petroleum rockets really become obsolete, since making liquid hydrogen gives a large surplus of oxygen over what you need for the rocket, and if you have a LOX setup you might as well use it for petroleum rockets.

I've never built a regolith steam chamber. My first time around, I fumbled around a lot, and I really didn't have a grasp of the mechanics well enough to move hot regolith where I wanted it. I also was focused on trying to get rid of heat, and making steam was a good way to do it before I understood steam turbines.

[Lilalaunekuh]

28 minutes ago, Gus Smedstad said:

Basically, show me a petroleum / booster rocket, and I'm pretty sure you can accomplish the same mission for less cost with a straight petroleum rocket.

Sry, but you failed the point here:

It´s about which resources are at which point in the game precious to you.

 

In my case:

• Iron: I can spare it, since I prefer to use the gold my volcano produces.
• Oxygen: I got enough since I produce hydrogen for a rocket.

=> If I boil all my oil and burn my petroleum, I end up with additional polluted water, which is the most important resource for me at the moment.

Additional polluted water means 3 things for me:

• More hydrogen for my "important"/long distance rocket
• More dirt for my sleet wheat farm.
• Even more oxygen to "waste" on solid fuel thrusters.

 

Spoiler

And right now you don´t need to refuel a solid fuel thruster xD

 

[Neotuck]

37 minutes ago, Gus Smedstad said:

I don't understand using solid boosters when you've got petroleum, since they'e significantly less efficient than petroleum rockets. 30km/kg instead of 40km/kg. Or rather, 15 km / kg vs. 20 km/kg if you include oxidizer mass and are using oxylite. The solid thruster masses as much as a liquid fuel tank and an oxidizer tank combined, and only has a capacity of 400kg fuel + 400kg oxidizer, which less than half that of a petroleum tank. Basically, show me a petroleum / booster rocket, and I'm pretty sure you can accomplish the same mission for less cost with a straight petroleum rocket.

Usually a petroleum rocket is the step between steam and hydrogen and the only way to make liquid hydrogen is using space materials that can't be reached with a steam rocket

It's true boosters don't add much to the rocket but depending how far the planets are you might need the extra "boost" to reach them as well as dealing with the extra weight of the heavy cargo hold

It's all about balance with boosters, stack too many and they will add too much weight and are counter productive like you say

[Gus Smedstad]

1 hour ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

It´s about which resources are at which point in the game precious to you.

That crossed my mind, but I didn't bring it up because they're both fairly renewable by the time you get to the surface. Iron comes from comets, and oil from oil wells. I never felt a real shortage of crude oil or petroleum, so it was hard for me to credit that it's precious. Iron I was often enough short of, but since it does fall from the sky it was hard for me to argue that it's more expensive than petroleum.

1 hour ago, Neotuck said:

Usually a petroleum rocket is the step between steam and hydrogen and the only way to make liquid hydrogen is using space materials that can't be reached with a steam rocket

You don't have to stop using them, though. Maybe if you have a shortage of petroleum. The oxidizer's effectively free since you're going to be making extra oxygen if you're running hydrogen rockets.

Honestly, though, I don't know what the game is like post-hydrogen rockets, because that's where I stopped playing. I felt like I was out of goals once I started my first hydrogen rocket shuttle.

[Neotuck]

Just now, Gus Smedstad said:

Honestly, though, I don't know what the game is like post-hydrogen rockets, because that's where I stopped playing. I felt like I was out of goals once I started my first hydrogen rocket shuttle.

I felt the same way too,

Usually I wait for the next update, start over on a new map, and try new things

[brucemo]

Unless I've missed something, you need two rockets to get from steam to petroleum, and they aren't of any use or value beyond that.

The only thing you can reach with steam alone is the 10k planets and the only thing you can do at those 10k planets is bring back research. So there isn't much point in making a long-term steam setup.

[Gus Smedstad]

2 minutes ago, brucemo said:

Unless I've missed something, you need two rockets to get from steam to petroleum, and they aren't of any use or value beyond that.

Pretty much, but I personally ran steam rockets for a long time. Mainly because I had serious dirt shortage problems, and I couldn't research petroleum rockets as a result. So I ran the steam rockets just for the extra research while I worked on that. All it cost me was some steam and a Dupe's time.

[FiannaTiger]

15 hours ago, brucemo said:

Unless I've missed something, you need two rockets to get from steam to petroleum, and they aren't of any use or value beyond that.

The only thing you can reach with steam alone is the 10k planets and the only thing you can do at those 10k planets is bring back research. So there isn't much point in making a long-term steam setup.

Just depends on what is on the 10k planets.  I had Isoresin and Fullerene on my planets so I could make a few things so I kept looping a rocket while I worked to build a second silo.

[Gus Smedstad]

22 minutes ago, FiannaTiger said:

Just depends on what is on the 10k planets.  I had Isoresin and Fullerene on my planets so I could make a few things so I kept looping a rocket while I worked to build a second silo.

Last I checked, you can't run cargo with steam rockets unless you add a solid booster. The cargo module is too heavy. That seems to be the main argument against using them for any length of time.

[FiannaTiger]

True you have to use the solid booster.  Currently and hopefully the fix it, you never needed to restock the booster, so it was just steam and time to get those going.  When they fix it, making a petroleum rocket would be better.

One thing I think that they should add is a travel factor for each type of fuel.  So you get to planets faster with Petroleum than steam and faster yet with Hydrogen rockets. 

[fredhp]

On 24/04/2019 at 7:44 AM, tzionut said:

This is my phosphorite to phosphorus smelter and solidifier (for feeding my wild azure bugs) 

I'm curious: Why do you do with the azure bugs?
 Is there a real benefit?

I never found an use for them, so, never ranched them. I only ranch pacu, hatches and slickers, but never  the bugs.