rework Why Webber sucks, and how to fix him

[Well-met]

How webber could be more fun (especially in no-cave worlds) 

- Crafting cave spider dens

- Different unarmed attack mechanic (bite animation? far more damage but slower attacks?)

- Can use spider nests like a tent with -75% effectiveness at lvl1, -50% at lvl2 and -25% at lvl3. -50% for spider dens.

- Feeding Monster Lasagna to a regular black spider has a 33% chance to permanently buff them into a cave dweller.

- A "bodyguard" mode that works like pets. 1 spider of the player's choosing will always follow them forever no matter if fed or not until death. This ability will work with even a queen (more late-game power). Perhaps tie this ability to a new item like an eyebone or leash or something.

[FreyaMaluk]

1 minute ago, Hell-met said:

- Different unarmed attack mechanic (bite animation? more damage and fast attacks?)

this is awesome xD

I can already picture it..

[Marthan]

I find that every character that has his only upside a type of farming items buff to be kinda of boring.

Webber has no other interesting gameplay aspect besides the spider stuff;

He is cute, but that does not change the gameplay;

The low sanity adds challenge, but is not a real perk;

He gets even less interesting endgame after you get a bunny farm for food and your chest are already filed with silk and glands(also the bunnies can be used to farm silk and stuff), at this point with other players on the server you(me, at least) can start felling like you are not helping enough like Wolf with the DMG, Wig with the armor making and wick with the books.

 

[Onatamana]

On 4/21/2019 at 1:19 PM, Nolgore said:

Webbed turf: Really just a way to enhance traps and base defenses with a slow effect. Also a gives a use for the plethora of silk Webber generates.

Webbed... walls?: I would love a wall that spider's don't attack, if only for decorative purposes. I'd prefer spider's just not attack regular walls for no reason, but I'd take this as a compromise.

I really like these suggestions, because webbed walls would make it much easier for controlling spiders near places where other players hang out, and the webbed turf gives Webber a combat niche that no other character can fill (slowing enemies).

Another change I'd like to see that doesn't necessarily involve Webber would be the ability to carry spiders in your inventory.  If spiders caught in traps could go into your inventory the same way rabbits and birds do, Webber would be able to deploy them at will for combat situations.  Perhaps Webber could also craft a unique tool to catch spiders and get a perk that slows down the rate that animals starve in their inventory (linked to their apparent backstory as the son of a farmer).

And of course, LET SPIDERS WEAR HATS.

[ShadowDuelist]

I've been thinking something that we're not giving the attention it deserves: using web as a WEAPON. Yes I know this would be an obvious nod to spider man, and I don't mean that we see webber swinging across the constant (or do I?)  what I mean is:

With some silk (EG: 3 silk, 1 spidergland) Webber can create one small yarn-ball-looking ball of silk you can toss.

• Tossing the web ball works with the same arc and dynamic as water baloons tossing
• Causes non-boss mobs to get stuck for a few seconds in an animation like the snot of the Ewecus, (except that it would be silk, not snot of course).
• Each crafting gives you one ball, they are stackable up to 20, and anyone can use it.
• Bosses can't get stuck no matter how many you throw.
• When you hit bosses, giants, or simply miss and it falls to the ground, it creates a webbing area on the ground that slows down and stays there for a few seconds before dissapearing. The slow down effect should probably be stronger than the usual spider nest webbing. Non flying giants should be affected by the slowing effect.
• Spiders and Spider queens are immune to all its effects.
• Flying creatures are immune to the slow effect of the ground webbing (smaller flying mobs like bats can get stuck though)

The reasoning:

Spoiler

So far Klei has given us the possibility to get the effects of good, end game items at a huge discount and being integrated in a way we can use at will and with no remorse: EG, winona catapults being a cheap and in some aspects better Houndius Shootius , Wortox basically having a permanent and cheap Lazy explorer effect at his disposal.

Webber is not really that bad of a character already, so I wouldn't give him something of the "ancient tab tier" like the characters previously mentioned. I think the closest thing this would resemble is a permanent, cheap and somewhat better, ice staff. Webber produces WAY too much silk that given some point in the game you have absolutely no way to use or get rid of. This would put it to some use you can spare every day, toss around, and consume.

--------------------------

As a side note I'd like to see some way to get more interactions with spiders, like having specific minions you can keep until they die, or upgrading them in some way, but I'd explain that in another post (maybe, perhaps)

[Canis]

1 hour ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I've been thinking something that we're not giving the attention it deserves: using web as a WEAPON. Yes I know this would be an obvious nod to spider man, and I don't mean that we see webber swinging across the constant (or do I?)  what I mean is:

With some silk (EG: 3 silk, 1 spidergland) Webber can create one small yarn-ball-looking ball of silk you can toss.

• Tossing the web ball works with the same arc and dynamic as water baloons tossing
• Causes non-boss mobs to get stuck for a few seconds in an animation like the snot of the Ewecus, (except that it would be silk, not snot of course).
• Each crafting gives you one ball, they are stackable up to 20, and anyone can use it.
• Bosses can't get stuck no matter how many you throw.
• When you hit bosses, giants, or simply miss and it falls to the ground, it creates a webbing area on the ground that slows down and stays there for a few seconds before dissapearing. The slow down effect should probably be stronger than the usual spider nest webbing. Non flying giants should be affected by the slowing effect.
• Spiders and Spider queens are immune to all its effects.
• Flying creatures are immune to the slow effect of the ground webbing (smaller flying mobs like bats can get stuck though)

The reasoning:

  Hide contents

So far Klei has given us the possibility to get the effects of good, end game items at a huge discount and being integrated in a way we can use at will and with no remorse: EG, winona catapults being a cheap and in some aspects better Houndius Shootius , Wortox basically having a permanent and cheap Lazy explorer effect at his disposal.

Webber is not really that bad of a character already, so I wouldn't give him something of the "ancient tab tier" like the characters previously mentioned. I think the closest thing this would resemble is a permanent, cheap and somewhat better, ice staff. Webber produces WAY too much silk that given some point in the game you have absolutely no way to use or get rid of. This would put it to some use you can spare every day, toss around, and consume.

--------------------------

As a side note I'd like to see some way to get more interactions with spiders, like having specific minions you can keep until they die, or upgrading them in some way, but I'd explain that in another post (maybe, perhaps)

I would 100% throw that at my friends on a daily basis for the meme.

[CaptainChaotica]

I want that yarn.

Not to meme with, but to actually use in (real-life!) crafting.  I've been working on a grab-whatever-random-colour-and-use-that-next afghan, and that yarn looks pretty. 

Now, as for Webber's abilities being overshadowed by Wortox...bear in mind not everybody's gonna have Wortox, and even when you do have him unlocked, not everyone's gonna USE him all the time. 

Good Webbers I dunno about specifically...because I seem to have a knack for always running into the BAD ones!  YOU know the type.  Pick all the flowers by the bee-box even after you SPECIFICALLY TOLD THEM NOT TO, sleep away your tent _and_ lean-to in less than a week (because of the way you have to constantly babysit Webber's sanity...and that's the main reason I don't play him, it's just too annoying for me), impatient little probably all of 7 year old brats who never stop and listen to ANYTHING, even if it's a really big deal and _to their benefit_ and, of course...

...putting the spider egg you start with right in camp.

Or AT THE ENTRANCE. 

I'm all for improving Webber's proper-actually-playing qualities, but while we're at it...is there any way we could soften his _bad_ ones?  I'm not sure how; just throwin' it out there.  Webber is an awesome character for _abuse_, and usually towards other players.

...Notorious

[Canis]

1 minute ago, CaptainChaotica said:

I want that yarn.

Not to meme with, but to actually use in (real-life!) crafting.  I've been working on a grab-whatever-random-colour-and-use-that-next afghan, and that yarn looks pretty. 

Now, as for Webber's abilities being overshadowed by Wortox...bear in mind not everybody's gonna have Wortox, and even when you do have him unlocked, not everyone's gonna USE him all the time. 

Good Webbers I dunno about specifically...because I seem to have a knack for always running into the BAD ones!  YOU know the type.  Pick all the flowers by the bee-box even after you SPECIFICALLY TOLD THEM NOT TO, sleep away your tent _and_ lean-to in less than a week (because of the way you have to constantly babysit Webber's sanity...and that's the main reason I don't play him, it's just too annoying for me), impatient little probably all of 7 year old brats who never stop and listen to ANYTHING, even if it's a really big deal and _to their benefit_ and, of course...

...putting the spider egg you start with right in camp.

Or AT THE ENTRANCE. 

I'm all for improving Webber's proper-actually-playing qualities, but while we're at it...is there any way we could soften his _bad_ ones?  I'm not sure how; just throwin' it out there.  Webber is an awesome character for _abuse_, and usually towards other players.

...Notorious

We shouldn't base characters around the fact that they can be used maliciously. If that were the case, Willow wouldn't a character in the first place.

Also, Webber's sanity is stupidly easy to deal with. 6 silk = top hat. The lower sanity cap means that you can slip in and out of insanity more easily. (ex: 1 green cap is enough to become sane under any circumstances.)

[Sinister_Fang]

6 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I've been thinking something that we're not giving the attention it deserves: using web as a WEAPON. Yes I know this would be an obvious nod to spider man, and I don't mean that we see webber swinging across the constant (or do I?)  what I mean is:

With some silk (EG: 3 silk, 1 spidergland) Webber can create one small yarn-ball-looking ball of silk you can toss.

• Tossing the web ball works with the same arc and dynamic as water baloons tossing
• Causes non-boss mobs to get stuck for a few seconds in an animation like the snot of the Ewecus, (except that it would be silk, not snot of course).
• Each crafting gives you one ball, they are stackable up to 20, and anyone can use it.
• Bosses can't get stuck no matter how many you throw.
• When you hit bosses, giants, or simply miss and it falls to the ground, it creates a webbing area on the ground that slows down and stays there for a few seconds before dissapearing. The slow down effect should probably be stronger than the usual spider nest webbing. Non flying giants should be affected by the slowing effect.
• Spiders and Spider queens are immune to all its effects.
• Flying creatures are immune to the slow effect of the ground webbing (smaller flying mobs like bats can get stuck though)

The reasoning:

  Reveal hidden contents

So far Klei has given us the possibility to get the effects of good, end game items at a huge discount and being integrated in a way we can use at will and with no remorse: EG, winona catapults being a cheap and in some aspects better Houndius Shootius , Wortox basically having a permanent and cheap Lazy explorer effect at his disposal.

Webber is not really that bad of a character already, so I wouldn't give him something of the "ancient tab tier" like the characters previously mentioned. I think the closest thing this would resemble is a permanent, cheap and somewhat better, ice staff. Webber produces WAY too much silk that given some point in the game you have absolutely no way to use or get rid of. This would put it to some use you can spare every day, toss around, and consume.

--------------------------

As a side note I'd like to see some way to get more interactions with spiders, like having specific minions you can keep until they die, or upgrading them in some way, but I'd explain that in another post (maybe, perhaps)

-snip-

Fun idea, but I can't stop thinking of how much animation work that would be.

[Canis]

20 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Fun idea, but I can't stop thinking of how much animation work that would be.

I think a good work-around would be to have the "snot/web-struggle" animation be replaced by a silk cocoon being wrapped around a mob, imo. The cocoon would scale up and down depending on the size of the mob.

[ThymeSpirit]

Here are some of my ideas.

Get rid of spider farming in its current form - it's extremely out of character for Webber to kill his spider friends. Mobs should ignore commands to attack their own kind (also applies to pigs and bunnies - bunny farms are too op).

Instead, give him an ability to craft artificial dens - spider boxes, similar to bee boxes. They would spawn silk over time which you can collect, and also unique types of tame spiders which attack hostile mobs on sight but don't attack players and walls. These spiders would start with same stats as warrior spiders, but can be upgraded - the box has a food trough which you need to fill with meat from time to time, and the den will start spawning stronger spiders that are more reliable in fight. Maybe it can downgrade back to tier 1 spiders if left starving for too long, or even become abandoned i.e. will need to put a spider egg in there, or destroy it and build a new one.
Maybe there could be different types of these artificial dens for different purposes, for example: one produces more silk, but the spiders don't become stronger, another can spawn only 2-3 spiders, but they grow very big, have high dmg and can cut trees/break boulders, etc.

"But what about glands and monster meat?" - Webber's abilities are not required for this, any character can kill spiders, Wendy does an especially good job.