Why Characters Need to be Balanced (At least in don't starve together)

[Griver84]

Honestly, the best example I can give to this is the fact that the entirety of the game can be completed on Wes. He's supposed to be the "hard mode" in my eyes, yet everything is still defeatable/gatherable/playable. So each individual character just makes each of those actions faster. I don't really see it to where not having a wicker or wortox (or others) on your team makes part of the game impossible or unsatisfactory. But thats my personal opinion.

[Scrimbles]

4 hours ago, BeliarBAD said:

geeeez guys did you have played wortox for a while??? hes all the time insane. wigfried is still much more powerful then him. she never needs hunger sanity or health 

his most powerful abbility is that you dont need to cook pirogie and other healing food to fight giants. you can join a server and with 6 players get a weapon and armor and go and kill for example dfly. and thats a great thing. im playing for a long time dst and ive cooked enough. 

 

also with him lots of players will be able to kill fuel weaver with a big group of players. thats also a great thing. more players need to see end game content before we get new content.

and never forget. you can kill evry boss easily using beefs or in caves rocklobster. so actually no charachter can be more powerful then this methods.

When did Don't Starve stop being and "unforgiving survival experience"?

The game should inherently block players from seeing end game content behind a huge difficulty curve.

That's the POINT of Don't Starve. If you can just skip the games difficulty then whats the point?

 

But I guess people are just abusing the game to kill the ancient guardian like 5 days in anyways, so I guess this is a lost cause argument :l

[Unn0ticedShadow]

Wes dosn't feel like a "challenged character" as much as he feels like a lesser Wilson, which almost makes Wilson feel redundant.  I think Wilson should get some "Scientist" perks and have Wes be left the same, it would spice up the game a bit more

I'm aware I took this issue off the deep end, and I apologize for that.  Next time I make a post like this i'll put a bit more thought into it.

Ogrecakes, it's often seen as bad game design to program something into the game that most players will never see, but I'd have to disagree with that, as often the idea of getting to the top can be part of the fun itself.  Either way i'd say a Fuelweaver defeat is certainly manageable with any character solo mode, and since even more endgame content is not the focus right now, that should not be too big an issue.  (If they did add even more to the endgame, I have to think they would need a new sword and armor, and new characters are not a practical solution long term.)

[Griver84]

i wouldn't sweat to much about it. The games in a state of flux atm with the character reworks (slowly) coming through. So people are going to have concerns. All I've been trying to make people aware of is keep the thought that everyone's getting reworked. So maybe we'll see wilson get a "scientist" perk after all.

But in the end even I'm open for balancing discussions once all the reworks/new characters/content has come out this year. <3 and I look forward to it. 

May you all enjoy your starving.... Wait... O.o

[FreyaMaluk]

8 hours ago, Unn0ticedShadow said:

      Although this is my first post, this is something I've been struggling to find balance in for a while now, and I feel Wortox really highlights this issue better than any other character in the past. (So sorry for the long post)  

     When regular Don't Starve was first created, with it came characters, and the developers weren't concerned about balance, as the character you chose is a personal option, and I might go as far as to say they purposely scaled the usefulness of characters from early to late-game, with the more easily unlocked characters more useful for beginners, and the later unlocked ones more useful than the others, or so it seems to be with EXP unlocked characters (Except Wolfgang).

      The issue with Don't Starve Together, however is that it's aimed to be, or at least function well as a multiplayer game, which it should have.  However with the introduction of all of the base characters unlocked at once, many characters were left "useless" to the majority of the fan-base, such as Willow, who was really only geared towards beginners, and while it does sometimes work with her, there's not much reason to play her over, more interesting characters when she was meant to be an introduction to character perks, which has caused Wilson, Woody, and other dull, relatively weak characters to be left in the dust by better players, and in some cases even noobs.

      While many people push this off as you can switch characters to whoever you like, ultimately when you buff the strongest character in a multiplayer PvE game, you make the game as a whole easier, which can be disastrous for a game that advertises as being an "Uncompromising Survival Game"  While balance should not be the #1 concern in a game like this, every character has to be balanced to an extent, or have a clear place in the game in order to keep this kind of structure, or you risk wasting tons of creative character lines, or even making people downright bored when everyone keeps on playing the same two or three characters.

      When getting Wortox as the new DLC character I figured he'd probably be more powerful than the average character, being a DLC and all, but the level of easiness that he is on is beyond crazy.  Killing Bees, re-planted Lureplants, or really anything makes collecting souls laughably easy, which provide unlimited hunger, health, and the ability to dodge attacks, at almost no cost (provided you either want sanity or place the souls on the ground instead) not to mention teleportation!  With his immense healing power I could see many fights coming down to whether or not you have a Wortox on your team, and as a consequence him being dramatically overused, which will not only make newbies feel (too) weak compared to people who buy the DLC, but make people who have him feel worse as a consequence, feeling as if there is no debate of who they should play, and these affects will still continue to a lesser affect if Wortox is only slightly nerfed.

    To conclude, Klei should definitely nerf Wortox, and hopefully focus on balance too for the other character's reworks, as it's just as important as having a cool character in itself.

Pls read Roadmap. All character are gonna get reworked. 

[FreyaMaluk]

3 hours ago, Datanon said:

wortox can clean up killer bee hives and tier 3 spider dens with no armor and end up with more health than he started, and youre comparing him to a basic resources collector

btw i dont agree with a lot of OP's points but if you think what i just said about wortox is comparable with any other character but maybe wickerbottom, i dont really know what to say. i agree that its a group game but i think there should be a limit to how reckless you can be in a survival game

U can do the same with Wigfrid.. And she'll end up with full sanity too, while Wortox has to deal with shadows too. Same with WX rushing ruins eating gears. 

What's ur point? 

5 hours ago, Xehanightmare said:

 

Frankly if you lot should be complaining about anything it should be the ability to clip past the land barriers into the sea and cheese out literally anything. You know, an actual bug, not something that comes down to preference.

Amen to that

[oCrapaCreeper]

It's too early to tell right now, we need to wait until the rebalances are finished. All the characters could very likely be on the same level as Wortex by the time they are done.

[Datanon]

1 hour ago, FreyaMaluk said:

U can do the same with Wigfrid.. And she'll end up with full sanity too, while Wortox has to deal with shadows too.

What's ur point? 

wigfrid cant keep on doing that for long. at some point she'll either have to waste resources to eat or heal herself, while wortox can do this chore for days with just a weapon and his souls, cleaning up the entire map of bees and spiders. im not going to talk about being sane over anything because in my opinion being insane is a lot more beneficial

also no need to send me a passive-aggressive "ur point?". we're just talking here, not bickering

48 minutes ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

It's too early to tell right now, we need to wait until the rebalances are finished. All the characters could very likely be on the same level as Wortex by the time they are done.

feedback is feedback

[FreyaMaluk]

1 hour ago, Datanon said:

wigfrid cant keep on doing that for long. at some point she'll either have to waste resources to eat or heal herself, while wortox can do this chore for days with just a weapon and his souls, cleaning up the entire map of bees and spiders. im not going to talk about being sane over anything because in my opinion being insane is a lot more beneficial

also no need to send me a passive-aggressive "ur point?". we're just talking here, not bickering

feedback is feedback

Wigfrid can do the same... She can eat raw monster eat and still be able to outset the dmg and health and sanity penalty

[Cytryn7]

Wortox is very overpowered. People who suggested that pierogi/dragonfruit pie are comparable to Wortx'es healing must be joking. Time needed to be able to gain big stack of pierogi and dragonfruit pie is huge compared to Wortox healing ability. Not even mention time for building farms, birdcages, collecting resources etc. Wortox shouldn't be able to heal himself, but only allies.

His teleportation is better version of Lazy Explorer what is ridicules. You can't even get Lazy Explorer during ruin rush (except chests ofc), and can't get it before winter. Wortox has it since beginig. Like WTF

And for people who complain about sanity loss. Since when being insane is bad thing? I understand it can be difficult for new players, but even mediocre player shouldn't have troubles survivng insanity.

[OMERICA]

Again, balancing is needed, but to some extent. If something is not breaking the game(like having endless souls from ballons lol)  but making slightly easy, that is not a balancing issue. Also nerfing isn’t the only way of balancing. They said that since this is a multiplayer game, they are going to make every character interesting to play. So comparing Wortox to other non-updated characters doesn’t make much sense. He is a very interesting character to play and I hope he stays that way.  

[FreyaMaluk]

40 minutes ago, Cytryn7 said:

Wortox is very overpowered. People who suggested that perogi/dragonfruit pie are comparable to Wortx'es healing must be joking. Time needed to be able to gain big stack of pierogi and dragonfruit pie is huge compared to Wortox healing ability. Not even mention time for building farms, birdcages, collecting resources etc. Wortox shouldn't be able to heal himself, but only allies.

His teleportation is better version of Lazy Explorer what is ridicules. You can't even get Lazy Explorer during ruin rush (except chests ofc), and can't get it before winter. Wortox has it since beginig. Like WTF

And for people who complain about sanity loss. Since when being insane is bad thing? I understand it can be difficult for new players, but even mediocre player shouldn't have troubles survivng insanity.

Tbh all this nerf complaining train needs to take into account the upcoming the rework for all characters. He is getting balanced already and tbh it would be boring if they took his hopping away. I expect Klei tunning his healing down a bit in the upcoming days to a more balanced state.

Another aspect to consider is that this is a late game character. Having the same abilities as all the other doesn't make much sense. Enabling different playstyles is way more fun than the unattainable idea of "perfect balance"

I never said being insane is a bad thing.. but it is a fact that u need to deal with more creatures while u are insane and that can be annoying sometimes, specially if you wanna focus on something.. period.

BTW, I like to farm my NF with shadow spelunkmonkeys cuz farming NF on the surface is pretty much early game strat for me. 

Spelunkmonkeys give u: Poop, NF, Bananas and Morsels... so yeap... why waste my time killing shadows on the surface when I can get so much more with the same resources....

[BeliarBAD]

there should be a rule here: minimum 3.000h in ds and dst to have the permission to make comments about balancing...

 

YOU REALLY SHOULD STOP COMMENTING ********

 

6 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

When did Don't Starve stop being and "unforgiving survival experience"?

The game should inherently block players from seeing end game content behind a huge difficulty curve.

That's the POINT of Don't Starve. If you can just skip the games difficulty then whats the point?

 

But I guess people are just abusing the game to kill the ancient guardian like 5 days in anyways, so I guess this is a lost cause argument :l

but it is how it is.... 99,99999% of all players havent ever seen fuelweaver. and thats a very bad thing. 

[FreyaMaluk]

3 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

there should be a rule here: minimum 3.000h in ds and dst to have the permission to make comments about balancing...

 

YOU REALLY SHOULD STOP COMMENTING ********

 

LOL..the wig main playing the easiest character in the game telling people to stop commenting... Right... 

[BeliarBAD]

Just now, FreyaMaluk said:

LOL..the wig main playing the easiest character in the game telling people to stop commenting... Right... 

im telling people to stop commenting cause they dont know what they talking about. 

if wig is easy then 99% of dst players are retarted cause they dont know to play her. i woudnt call her easy. iu would say shes not an annoying charachter like wicker and wolfgang. 

nvm....

can we have pls some videos where you guys smash some bosses with wortox in 2 min. show me pls fuel weaver and misery toadstool.

you are talking all the time hes so op and kills all bosses. i havent seen anything yet. pls im waiting. but i bet you guys even dont know where to find these bosses

[Pimenteroo]

Guys,  seriously, if every character gets "balanced" the game will be full of willows. Is that what you want?! We don't know what bosses are coming in the updates, so let the character be this way, he's fun to play the way he is now. And is a DLC character, shouldn't he be a little powerfull than the others?

[FreyaMaluk]

1 minute ago, BeliarBAD said:

im telling people to stop commenting cause they dont know what they talking about. 

if wig is easy then 99% of dst players are retarted cause they dont know to play her. i woudnt call her easy. iu would say shes not an annoying charachter like wicker and wolfgang. 

nvm....

Hours in the game doesn't mean you know what to do in the game.

Compared to other char Wig is dumb ez and OP by far. That's a fact no matter how you look at it. And if you call Wolfgang "annoying" that shows me lot that u like the ez dmg Wig modifier with no transitions or penalties... so ... yeap...

10 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

you are talking all the time hes so op and kills all bosses. i havent seen anything yet. pls im waiting. 

BTW I think you are confusing me.. I'm NOT saying he is OP. I think he needs some fine tuning but the core premise of hopping and healing should remain, cuz it's a fun and useful concept. I've been playing him and I think he offers a different take on the game... 

14 minutes ago, BeliarBAD said:

but i bet you guys even dont know where to find these bosses

And since u like to flex, let me tell you...

I've killed all the bosses many times with people and solo. Misery Toadstool me Wicker with my friend and Maxwel only the two of us with no cheese. Fuelweaver too.. and also solo with no cheese... Those bosses are pretty much a test of endurance. Specially Toadstool with its 100k health.

IMO DST bosses aren't that hard as long as you are prepared and know kitting patterns...  Fuelweaver solo with no weather pains is probs the hardest boss at the moment IMO and all the normal RoG bosses are kinda dumb if you ask me. 

[4 Da LOLs]

 

15 hours ago, Pop Guy said:

 

I think peaceful creatures should not give "souls".

this will greatly strengthen their synergy with Webber

[FyreIsBoss]

Well if u heal 20 times for 20 hp, u get up to 400hp. Now wx already can already get that much, and even if not maxed out, if you keep a few gears in ur inv u can heal for 60hp per gear. That on top of being able to heal for a full 40hp from pierogi makes wx already have an easier time with health during a bossfight, and being 50% faster means much easier kiting. Woflgang has 300hp, double dmg, and 25% faster speed, and if played correclty he can use any healing item 33% more efficiently. Teleporting in a fight means that you have to choose between healing or dodging. Imo Wortox isnt overpowered as there are characters with much more potential. What id like to see from the new characters and the reworks are some interesting features. Wortox isnt that interesting for me, because his abilities are pretty basic, kill enemies, heal/eat, teleporting feels like a gimmick that was thrown on at the last second. Something I havent seen anyone mention is that Wortox basically has a 2x hunger mutliplier as he needs to consume 2 times the food of any normal character a day. For example, i really like playing wickerbottom, wendy, woodie because they have interesting mechanics. I really dont like playing wolfgang even though hes one of the strongest characters in the game, just because hes so simple, all you do is 1 thing which you are the best at. Wilba from hamlet is also really interesting because her werewolf form is very strong if controlled correctly but it can also be a curse if youre low on food and a full moon happens to come by. Overall i think klei shouldnt limit themselves on their creativity just so the characters are balanced and they should take their time in making each character interesting and fun to play, with at least a bit of end game potential. 

[FreyaMaluk]

12 minutes ago, 4 Da LOLs said:

 

this will greatly strengthen their synergy with Webber

Maybe not butterflies... Beefalos and Koalas are neutral creatures too and I don't think is fair they if those don't drop souls 

[4 Da LOLs]

Just now, FreyaMaluk said:

Maybe not butterflies... Beefalos and Koalas are pacifist too and I don't think is fair they if don't drop souls 

maybe it has to have above 24 hp to count as a soul so you can feed off spiders and bats and rabbits and birds because

such butterfles are just too good

[Unn0ticedShadow]

Every character getting balanced would not mean the game being filled with Willows, as when it comes to other games with multiple "fighters" or whatever they have that kind of stuff has obviously been balanced, and there isn't much making DST much different than a game like LoL balance wise, which manages to have cool and balanced characters, although Don't Starve Together definitely does not need nearly as much balance, but most certainly some.

    Wigfrids healing ability on the other hand is incomparable to Wortox, she heals 4 Hp from spiders, Wortox 20.  As for butterflies, she heals 0, and wortox 24!  If your going to compare a character to to Wortox it most certainly should not be Wigfrid, and honestly I don't think there really is a character to compare him to, which while making him unique and fun to play, is very much over the top at the moment.  Maybe if only certain monsters dropped souls like spider guards, beefalo, and pigs it could be semi-balanced, but at it's current state he's beyond comparing rank-wise to any characters besides maybe Wicker and Wolfgang, who are already above powerful in most players eyes.

[4 Da LOLs]

idea:

since i could get 20 souls just from killing spiders and butterflies i teleported to one side of the island to another in around a minute (i wasn't timing it)

so if teleporting had a recharge it could make it more of a dodge attack option

also since you could just run away or teleport drop some souls to max your hp i believe that the souls should have a regen of around 2hp per second when dropped and de-spawn after ten seconds so it makes them less op for hit and run tactics and more like the healer in forge

[Unn0ticedShadow]

I don't like the idea of the souls being a free dodge option, but if it was a short distance, like the description says, without the "dodgability" that would work too.

As for the forge, it should be our last worry, seeing we already had season 2 forge and are due a season 2 gorge, it's not happening any time soon, and the developers don't want to work on the Events anyways, at the moment.

[4 Da LOLs]

16 minutes ago, Unn0ticedShadow said:

I don't like the idea of the souls being a free dodge option, but if it was a short distance, like the description says, without the "dodgability" that would work too.

so if you can't dodge with them, and can't travel far with them, whats the point of having the ability to teleport then?