Insulation Flaking

[mathmanican]

More tests done @Lilalaunekuh. 

Many of the videos I've watched online use a rapidly repeating pulsed door to shoot gold out extremely fast. I want to manufacture this problem in game, and creating extreme heat takes effort, so I want to make the most gold as possible with the least amount of heat supplied. A rapidly firing pulsed door is not the most efficient. Such a setup cools down the heat source, per kg of duplicated gold, way more than if you disconnect the melted door from the heat source before toggling it. 

Here's an example experiment. Attach a 0.1 s pulse that stays closed just about always but every 0.1s is told to toggle on, and then immediately off. With 3600kg of 2000K steel as the painted in heat source, I was able to create exactly 6t of gold (so I got 15 replications). Also, sometimes this process allows the door to disappear. On the other hand, with an appropriate pattern on heat source (disconnect, open, close, reconnect and wait), I'm currently over 60t, and climbing.  I'll probably break 70t (Edit: it finally stopped at 74t) before the heat runs out. This is more than 10 times for gold, from the exact same heat source. How we connect/disconnect the heat source matters.  Still working on optimizing this, but I'm getting close. 

 

[mathmanican]

I've got all my experiments done to build a Tungsten factory. Tomorrow I should be able to finish it up and post (I'll start a new thread).  I wanted to share what I found for anyone else who wants to play. 

• To make 390kg of tungsten fall from a thermium door, the temp loss on 800kg of steam is between 4-5 K (wide range, but not perfectly predictable - it's a bug). 
• One single run of making 100kg of iron ore from iron in a metal refinery provides enough heat to drop a tungsten payload between 3 and 4 times.  So for each time you create 100kg of iron, you can get a little more than 1200kg of tungsten.  Not bad.
• Since a hydrogen rocket launch provides about 6 times the heat of an iron metal refinery run, you can get about 7.2t of tungsten from each rocket launch. 
• The door pattern for getting the tungsten to fall is (1) disconnect the door from everything, (2) open door, (3) reconnect door to heat (while door is open), and (4) close door causing heat transfer to finally occur. However, upon a save load the door pattern might have changed (more testing tomorrow), with even lower temp drops (2-3K instead of 4-5, which means twice as much tungsten, maybe). 

This feels like printing money. It seems so wrong. Oh well, it's ONI alchemy.

I'll start a new thread tomorrow when I get it all set up and optimized (or at least a start). I'll try to get the other metals setup as well. However, gold requires a 15K drop in temp (so basically you get an extra 100kg gold for each 100kg of iron made).  Iron is dismal, being about 5 times worse than gold (but we get free iron raining from the sky). Most recent tests show niobium as more efficient than tungsten, with steel just a tad worse.  I could probably make 1.8t of niobium, or maybe 1t of steel, instead of 1.2t of tungsten.  Crazy.  

[Lilalaunekuh]

On 20.3.2019 at 8:07 AM, mathmanican said:

Since a hydrogen rocket launch provides about 6 times the heat of an iron metal refinery run, you can get about 7.2t of tungsten from each rocket launch. 

I love it, just found some time to play again and saw found this

And you all talk about plain hydrogen rockets going for (real) space missions.

=> A rocket can fly with over 10 solid fuel thrusters outputting the same heat energy as the main engine.

Spoiler

Ok, if I build a rocket that ouputs enough heat to make >80t of tungsten in a 3 cycle time frame ...

=> That´s 1 melted door every 9 seconds.

But even if tungsten is my material of choice for industrial/space buildings, I think my needs would be satisfied after one simultaneous launch of my full rocket silo.

(If one start or test run of my current rocket silo will yield >300t of tungsten, it seems no like a build I want to run continuously.

Or really over-engineer like my farm xD)

 

[mathmanican]

22 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

Ok, if I build a rocket that ouputs enough heat to make >80t of tungsten in a 3 cycle time frame ...

Hopefully I will have time tonight to post a build. Then we can massively over engineer tungsten production. I'll play some with this rocket idea. Thanks for the post.

[Coolthulhu]

On 3/15/2019 at 2:01 AM, 0xFADE said:

When you bring a gas up above the liquidation temperature of an insulation tile instead of it melting it just flakes off 5kg worth of igneous rock.  This very quickly breaks off large amounts of rock pieces from the insulation but doesn't damage the insulation at all.  It also cools down the gas.

Appears that after enough time the tile does disappear.  The mass of the tile is not updated in the properties tab.

It actually damages the tile, just doesn't show it properly.

If you hover over the lowest pixel of the tile (must be precise), you'll see its "material tile". This one will be damaged by the sweating mechanic. And if it gets damaged enough, it will destroy the tile.

It does get reset on save, though.

[Denisetwin]

On 3/20/2019 at 2:07 AM, mathmanican said:

I've got all my experiments done to build a Tungsten factory.

Did I miss this post?

[mathmanican]

7 hours ago, Denisetwin said:

Did I miss this post?

Nope.  Every time I sit down to make it, other things get in the way.  We're close enough to the new preview that I now have no desire to do anything till after it comes out (tomorrow).  Maybe it'll all be fixed by then. Probably not, but who knows.

[mathmanican]

On 3/16/2019 at 10:33 AM, mathmanican said:

The doors release their 400kg gift, but the new gifted liquid continues to increase in temp.  Upon opening/closing the door, the door actually disappears. The final content in each region is 800kg, matter duplication.

I'm pretty sure that liquid duplication and the metal cannon are the exact same bug. However, the metal cannon employs one extra bug, namely that doors don't disappear under some conditions.

Found another instance of this bug, in a mod. Thanks to @chromiumboy for the "Self-Sealing Airlocks" mod. Here's one of the comments in the steam workshop. 

@Ipsquiggle, I heard in another thread that you guys were trying to track this one down.  Maybe @chromiumboy's mod interfaces with the right part of the code to help track this down, or maybe not. I don't even know if there is a bug report anymore for this bug (might have been hid). I'm hoping you already nailed it. Cheers.  Best of luck with the final wrap ups. 

[Yalp]

Since I haven't seen it mentioned, you can check how much material is left for a tile that's been bled out by clicking it twice.

The tiles behind doors  are affected individually, if you heat the door from one side, that side will bleed first, possibly severing the connection to the other tile, preventing it from melting at all.

Edit:

Example:

The door keeps part of the heat from the unmolten block, heating the door while opening. The amount of heat retained is less then we put in.

 

[Grimgaw]

4 hours ago, mathmanican said:

@Ipsquiggle, I heard in another thread that you guys were trying to track this one down. 

Are they though? And that's after months of bug reports.