Using sandstone for early base insulation

[Sasza22]

Early on you want to put some nsulation around your base so it won`t heat up from the nearby biomes. Most people use igneous rock for it`s high thermal capacity, but in fact using sandstone is better.

Why is that? Your walls will have the temperature of the rock used to build it (it`s not always true but in the early biomes it is). This means your insulated walls will be pretty hot when build out of igneous rock. It`s usual temperature is above 40^oC. The main reason you want igneous is that it takes time to heat up so it will keep the temperature outside for longer. But when the temperature outside is the same as the wall the thermal capacity does nothing, instead it slowly leaks the heat inside and the capacity will make it leak more heat overall if you try to cool down the area.

Sandstone in your starting biome is around 25^oC giving you more time without heat leaking in even though it heats up faster. It will actually suck some heat from the inside as well if it`s around 30^oC. Later of course you should change it to a more robust insulation using ceramic or an active cooling system but early on sandstone should be much better than igneous for keeping your farms nice and cool.

[lunazone]

I've never thought of that, this is a really good point.

[Lilalaunekuh]

2 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

The main reason you want igneous is that it takes time to heat up so it will keep the temperature outside for longer.

The main reason to use igneous rock is it´s low thermal conductivity !

Thermal conductivity of insulated sandstone:      0,029 (DTU/(m*s))/K

Thermal conductivity of insulated igneous rock:  0,020 (DTU/(m*s))/K

 

And two of my own additions to compare:

Granite got the higest thermal conductivity of all materials available to build an insulated tile:

Thermal conductivity of insulated sandstone:      0,034 (DTU/(m*s))/K

Ceramic got the lowest thermal conductivity ">0" (I asume insulated insulation is a perfect insulator xD):

Thermal conductivity of insulated sandstone:      0,006 (DTU/(m*s))/K

 

=> Everything except ceramic and insulation shows a "similar" conductivity, but igneous rock shows still a huge advantage over sandstone or granite.

 

[N3V3RFORGOTT3N]

i found out with a little bit of testing using debug if u have 2 layers of tiles with the part touching the hot or cold being anything and the other part being insulated anything u can stop ANY and all heat transfer except at EXTREME temps so to insulate your base just use normal tiles on  the inside for the decor and then a layer of insulated tile made of anything

for this test i surrounded a cool steam geyser in normal granite tiles on the inside(to guard vs possible water pressure) and then a layer of sandstone insulated tiles(didnt want to use a good material) and after 400 cycles the insulated tiles were the original temp 20C(same as the air touching them on the other side) and the inside tiles matched the gas/water

the only reason u would need ceramic or better tiles is if u are messing with 100+C temps and dont want the heat leaking out but even then u will still need 3 layers to be safe over hundreds of cycles

[Yunru]

I just use vacuum. It's kinda micro-manage-y to set up, but...

[N3V3RFORGOTT3N]

17 minutes ago, Yunru said:

I just use vacuum. It's kinda micro-manage-y to set up, but...

i used to use vacuums for very hot/cold areas but u dont need to unless its 1000+ 2 layers work fine as i had 100C contained with no heat leakage for 400+ cycles

[Xuhybrid]

7 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

Early on you want to put some nsulation around your base so it won`t heat up from the nearby biomes. Most people use igneous rock for it`s high thermal capacity, but in fact using sandstone is better.

Why is that? Your walls will have the temperature of the rock used to build it (it`s not always true but in the early biomes it is). This means your insulated walls will be pretty hot when build out of igneous rock. It`s usual temperature is above 40^oC. The main reason you want igneous is that it takes time to heat up so it will keep the temperature outside for longer. But when the temperature outside is the same as the wall the thermal capacity does nothing, instead it slowly leaks the heat inside and the capacity will make it leak more heat overall if you try to cool down the area.

Sandstone in your starting biome is around 25^oC giving you more time without heat leaking in even though it heats up faster. It will actually suck some heat from the inside as well if it`s around 30^oC. Later of course you should change it to a more robust insulation using ceramic or an active cooling system but early on sandstone should be much better than igneous for keeping your farms nice and cool.

Starting temperature on a block that doesn't have much thermal capacity and won't transfer the heat anyway? Yeah i'm sticking with igneous rock. Don't get me wrong. I start with sandstone, but it doesn't stay forever.

[Sasza22]

10 hours ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

The main reason to use igneous rock is it´s low thermal conductivity !

Thermal conductivity of insulated sandstone:      0,029 (DTU/(m*s))/K

Thermal conductivity of insulated igneous rock:  0,020 (DTU/(m*s))/K

Sure thermal conductivity is also important here. My point is that when the tile is warmer than the inside of the base it will slowly leak heat inside, while when it`s colder it will not. Basiclly sandstone tiles provide double protection as they have to heat up themselves first unlike igneous that starts warm.

5 hours ago, Xuhybrid said:

Starting temperature on a block that doesn't have much thermal capacity and won't transfer the heat anyway?

It`s 400kg of rock. Sure it has some thermal capacity. Igneous has even more than sandstone and that heat is already in the rock so hte insulation value only helps slowing heat from getting inside the base while sandstone insulated tiles have to heat up themselves first.

OK i didn`t do the math on if it is actually better. Probably in the long run igneous beats sandstone. But i`m talking about early game and from my obsrvations sandstone works better at the start.

[Lilalaunekuh]

17 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

OK i didn`t do the math on if it is actually better. Probably in the long run igneous beats sandstone. But i`m talking about early game and from my obsrvations sandstone works better at the start.

I did some math and your are right, but the amount of time sandstone is superior isn´t very long ...

 

Let´s asume our igneous rock will be at least 45°C to reach the temperature cap for new buildings and our base is ~25°C.

=> Our sandstone needs to be above 38,7°C to transfer the same amount of heat inside the base.

But this asumes on the other side of the insulated tile is a vacuume.

(The hoter the outside of your base the less time sandstone will be superior.)

 

 

[jlarner]

That doesn't sound right to me.... I thought that the game uses the lower of the two thermal conductivities and the lower of the two heat capacities when calculating heat transfer from one tile to another.  Given that it's likely you have oxygen your side, the conductivity of Igneous/sandstone is irrelevant as Oxygen is lower than both (at least for the transfer from tile -> base).  The fact that sandstone has 20% less capacity than Igneous is far more likely to make a difference.

[lee1026]

I always thought the game used the average of the two materials, and that is why ceramic works better in practice, though I will admit to not having tested this,

[jlarner]

I'm just going on what is written in the wiki - I haven't tested it either.  I know there are errors in other places - maybe it's wrong here too.

[Lilalaunekuh]

To make it more clear: (or confuse some more ?)

1.The default case uses an average conductivity.

2. If one of the 2 transfer partners is an "insulated building" (insulated tile/pipe ...) the calculation uses the minimum conductivity.

3.Buildings (but not tiles) interact with 1/5 of the shown heat capacity.

4.For each transfer partner that is a gas or liquid there is an multiplikator of 25 to the toal heat transfer.

(tile/solid with tile/solid = x1; tile/solid with liquid/gas = x25; liquid/gas with liquid/gas = x625)

Spoiler

A gold floor above an insulated building can provide more than runspeed

(-> insulation <-)

5. Not a complete list of all quirks

(or should I add a impractical and useless way to prevent heat transfer with >100°C of temperature difference...)

 

[mathmanican]

4 hours ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

5. Not a complete list of all quirks

(or should I add a impractical and useless way to prevent heat transfer with >100°C of temperature difference...)

Please do tell.

[Lilalaunekuh]

Not everything up to date but some quirks still work:

Cell 1 is 1kg of hydrogen at 320K, cell 2 is 800kg of gold amalgalm at 6.4K (not a naturally found temperature, but you'll understand the choice)
Here, Q1 = 2.4 * 1 * 320 = 768, and Q2 = 0.15 * 800 * 6.4 = 768
This causes ΔQ' to be capped at |Q2 - Q1| / 8 = 0: no transfer is done despite the huge temperature difference and the relatively good conductivities. Making sense to you? Yeah, neither to me

 

PS: nakommaru your right

[mathmanican]

17 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

but some quirks still work:

Haven't yet thought of a way to exploit this particular issue,but give me time.  I'm sure we can find a very useful way.  

[Lilalaunekuh]

There is a very valuable lesson to learn from the post:

There is a minimum thermal energy needed to trigger a heat transfer.

=> You can calculate an temperature range where no energy will be exchanged for each element interaction.

(So layering can result in a perfect insulation^^)