Should Immune Systems be less powerful?

[lunazone]

I was curious what the public opinion on this was

[Soulwind]

I think it's fine.  There's already a setting to turn recovery down or off, as desired.  What is really needed is an expansion of the disease system. I play on miserable, and other than taking a few precautions early game, you couldn't really tell that there are any diseases in the game. 

[Neotuck]

I agree with @Soulwind Immunity only seems OP when you play the game on easy settings.  I would rather see new diseases added to the game than nerf the current immunity 

[chemie]

question is confusing.  do you mean should dups get sick easier?  or should disease be easier?  and since this can be set as an option, do you mean based on default or hardest setting?  because on hardest setting   dups immune system is not very powerful

1 minute ago, Neotuck said:

I agree with @Soulwind Immunity only seems OP when you play the game on easy settings.  I would rather see new diseases added to the game than nerf the current immunity 

it would be nice if food poisoned water could not be used for everything...especially sinks

[lunazone]

@chemie Sorry for the confusion, it's asking if immune systems should be less effective on default. 

[Neotuck]

1 minute ago, chemie said:

it would be nice if food poisoned water could not be used for everything...especially sinks

I always felt like that was an exploit 

[chemie]

Just now, Neotuck said:

I always felt like that was an exploit 

do you force play around it?  I confess my bathrooms are on sieve loop for a long time

2 minutes ago, Squeegee said:

@chemie Sorry for the confusion, it's asking if immune systems should be less effective on default. 

try the hardest setting.  it requires continuous medication as dups can't recover any hit to immunity

[lunazone]

1 minute ago, Neotuck said:

I always felt like that was an exploit 

I agree that using food poisoned water to wash your hands is a bit silly, but I think they should add more intuitive ways to clean your water before they fix it and make washing your hands with germy water a bad idea

 

1 minute ago, chemie said:

try the hardest setting.  it requires continuous medication as dups can't recover any hit to immunity

 

I've been playing on miserable and doing so made me realize that current immune systems nullify germs, I've been having fun on this mode

[Neotuck]

2 minutes ago, chemie said:

do you force play around it?  I confess my bathrooms are on sieve loop for a long time

Here's my current setup from my last play though, main reason is to keep the dirt germ free so it's doesn't spread to the rest of the base but it makes sink water germ free too as a bonus

[chemie]

2 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

Here's my current setup from my last play though, main reason is to keep the dirt germ free so it's doesn't spread to the rest of the base but it makes sink water germ free too as a bonus

why germ free dirt?

[Neotuck]

2 minutes ago, chemie said:

why germ free dirt?

dupes have a habit of spreading germs when they transport it

not really a problem on easy game settings but with miserable immunity it can be a problem if they transport crops/food after transporting dirt

[chemie]

Just now, Neotuck said:

dupes have a habit of spreading germs when they transport it

not really a problem on easy game settings but with miserable immunity it can be a problem if they transport crops/food after transporting dirt

fair enough.  I dont play miserable...and on the next hardest setting, you dont need any hand washing except for bathrooms.

I find the difficulty settings are more about making early game slower than any harder.  I do play max stress response pessimistic but that is meaningless with job promotion discipline.

[ChickenMadness]

I agree the disease system needs to be expanded and improved upon. We need more than just slimelung and food poisoning.

The immunity is fine when you play on max difficulty. It only recovers if you feed the duplicants vitamin chews. Never recovers on it's own. This lets you experience game content that isn't available on the easier settings. You'll never need to build the med-chamber or apothecary otherwise.

[Neotuck]

1 minute ago, chemie said:

I find the difficulty settings are more about making early game slower than any harder.  I do play max stress response pessimistic but that is meaningless with job promotion discipline.

agree, difficulty doesn't really effect late game if you build your base with good decor and sanitation 

[0xFADE]

I think it is fine as is.  The diseases will wreck new players and people who dive in to slime areas too fast.  Keeping things clean is another step in the many steps this game gives you.

40c water is too valuable early to send right back in to sinks.

I could see using near boiling water in sinks etc as a similar exploit but you do have to deal with heat bleeding out of the pipes. 

[ChickenMadness]

What I would like is a new disease that has similar mechanics to food poisoning but will actually infect the duplicants on contact (not just from eating food). It could be put in the oil biome or near the top of the map as a mid-late game thing. The food poisoning at the beginning of the game would be a good training for it.

This is what I think is missing from the disease system. Food poisoning is too simple and easy to really to worry about. You just need to keep it away from the food. It always felt like it was preparing me for a more powerful disease with similar mechanics. But there isn't one lol.

But adding this third disease we would have...

Slimelung - infection from the air
Food poisoning - infection from eating contaminated food
*New disease* - infection from contact with skin. (so picking up germy rocks, touching germy ladders, etc.)

That completes the whole disease system and fills all niches imo. Gives you more reason to use the exosuits. You wouldn't need to fill the exosuits with oxygen either, just so the duplicants don't touch things in the contaminated areas.

And I would also like 'Doctors' to be added to the jobs board. So that we can have a more fleshed out hospital system.

[chemie]

22 minutes ago, 0xFADE said:

 but you do have to deal with heat bleeding out of the pipes. 

this is not insignificant.  have you ever run 95c water through insulated pipes to toilets and sinks?  there is a large impact post abysilitte changes.  even though toilets/sinks act as bridges with insulated inventory, the pipes, even ceramic, leak heat to floor tiles or the toilet/sink if you run above the floor.  not a good design choice.

8 minutes ago, ChickenMadness said:

Food poisoning is too simple and easy to really to worry about.

when disease first came out, it was great.  super deadly.  then they nerfed it such that you can completely ignore it if you follow a few easy basic rules.  same for stress...you can completely ignore.

food poisoning is only bad in food.  slime lung is fine on surfaces and yet people use sinks, ore scrubbers, and they have the annoying disinfect job which is totally useless unless you run your base full of polluted oxygen....

[ChickenMadness]

9 minutes ago, chemie said:

food poisoning is only bad in food.  slime lung us fine on surfaces and yet people use sinks, ore scrubbers, and they have the annoying disinfect job which is totally useless unless you run your base full of polluted oxygen....

1

lol exactly. There are so many disinfection options that serve no purpose.

You have to make up your own imaginary disease rules to make it fun.

[heckubis]

 

 killing liquid germs on mass isnt an issue only problem i get is the giant random packets of slimelung but those can be handled in a similar fashion. its just a matter of making sure the lines are full when it enters the tanks.

[blash365]

51 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

I agree with @Soulwind Immunity only seems OP when you play the game on easy settings.  I would rather see new diseases added to the game than nerf the current immunity 

And doctors!

[0xFADE]

13 minutes ago, chemie said:

this is not insignificant.  have you ever run 95c water through insulated pipes to toilets and sinks?  there is a large impact post abysilitte changes.  even though toilets/sinks act as bridges with insulated inventory, the pipes, even ceramic, leak heat to floor tiles or the toilet/sink if you run above the floor.  not a good design choice.

Yeah,  that is why I brought it up. The heat is bleeding out now but it hasn’t been a massive problem yet.

It is all building up slowly.  If I don’t put in some cooling soon it will get way out of hand. Just another step to deal with. 

[Neotuck]

11 minutes ago, 0xFADE said:

Yeah,  that is why I brought it up. The heat is bleeding out now but it hasn’t been a massive problem yet.

It is all building up slowly.  If I don’t put in some cooling soon it will get way out of hand. Just another step to deal with. 

If you notice in the picture I posted above I have a few wheezeworts spread around.  The pipes are all made out of igneous rock and that works enough for 40C water

23 minutes ago, heckubis said:

what are the farm tiles for?

[Zarquan]

I think that slimelung needs to be more dangerous.  As is, I just put a pool at the bottom of the slime biome and dig up, then put the slime in a chlorine room.  No germs get released in this process.  I rarely get any slimelung in my base.

I think being covered in germs should get some inside you if they have been on you for too long.  If you have slimelung or food poisoning on your hands and you touch your face, you are exposed and get some internal germs.  Slimelung should also seep in to the air from dug materials more directly and shouldn't be counteracted by overpressurizing the room.  Food poisoning in the air should become surface germs.  Washing your hands or showering with germy water should cover the dupe with germs.  I would approve of a "germ swap", where all the germs from the dupe are put in the water and all the germs from the water are put on the dupe.  Finally, walking through germy water or germy air should get your dupe covered in germs.

I play on miserable and I haven't gotten a germ-related disease on my dupes since they were nerfed.  And I don't bother with vitamin chews because my dupes just don't get exposed.

[goboking]

With the various settings on offer, I think it's fine as is.  That said, I'm still hoping for a new disease or two (volgus carrying ONI's equivalent to rabies would be ideal, in my humble opinion) and a doctor job.

[Neotuck]

10 minutes ago, Zarquan said:

I think that slimelung needs to be more dangerous.  As is, I just put a pool at the bottom of the slime biome and dig up, then put the slime in a chlorine room.  No germs get released in this process.  I rarely get any slimelung in my base.

while I do agree with you, this isn't easy to new players

If the dupes don't sweep the slime as they dig it they will off-gas germs into the air, also algae can contain germs and will also get into the air when used in terrariums or diffusers

while any of this can be easily avoided by experienced players, new players can wipe their colonies