1 Drecko feeds 11 duplicants (60 shine bugs)

[ChickenMadness]

Was looking at  the critter information in ONI biology and thought this was interesting.

5.35 shine bugs feed 1 duplicant with omelettes.
1 Drecko can feed 60 shine bugs with phosphorite.
60 shine bugs can feed 11 duplicants with omelettes.

It could be a good way to start off the early to mid game and completely skip the need for mushrooms, bristle berries or meal wood (except in the very beginning). It would conserve a lot of resources. And omelettes are superior to fried mushrooms for morale. It also requires no resources when feeding the drecko balm lillys (other than duplicant time for grooming). Would need full automation to reduce duplicant interaction with that many critters though.
 
This is how I calculated it.
Underlined numbers that are used later on so it's easier to follow.

Duplicant info
1 duplicant = -1000kcal per cycle
1kg omelette = 2800 kcal
0.357kg Omelette = 1000 kcal

Drecko info
- Drecko food to phosphorite conversion rate is 500%
- They eat 2kg per cycle. 
- Produces 10kg of phosphorite per cycle

Shine Bug info
- Eats 0.166kg phosphorite per cycle ...... (10kg / 0.166kg = 60.24) so 1 drecko feeds 60 shine bugs
- Reproduction +67%/cycle ...... 2/3 eggs per cycle ..... 0.667 eggs per cycle
- 1 shine bug egg = 0.2kg egg.... when cracked becomes...
- 0.1kg raw egg 
- 0.1kg egg shells
(0.1kg x 2/3  = 0.06667kg/cycle of raw egg)

1 shine bug = 0.06667kg/cycle of raw egg
(0.357kg omelette / 0.06667kg/cycle raw egg = 5.35 shine bugs)

(60.24 /5.35 = 11.26 duplicants)

so
5.35 shine bugs feed 1 duplicants
1 drecko feeds 60.24 shine bugs
60.24 shine bugs feed 11.26 duplicants
 

[angrybovine]

Excellent job! 

But won't it take multiple Dupes to groom all those shine bugs each cycle?  If you are going omelettes (which is my preferred food source) isn't it more efficient to go with a critter that produces more egg mass for less work?

I haven't tried crunching the reproductive rate and lifespan numbers, but if it turns that because of the shorter life span of the shine bugs compared to the various Hatch morphs that this is just as good this is pretty cool.

With decent automation to minimize Dupe labor (thats a lot of eggs), this seems viable (minus the performance issues Ooz just raised).

[Oozinator]

In theory yes, but when you run a base with 60 critters and 11 dupes, god of performance starts to hate you..

[angrybovine]

6 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

In theory yes, but when you run a base with 60 critters and 11 dupes, god of performance starts to hate you..

So its probably better just to go with less critters for performance and less ranching?  Also, maybe go ground-based critters to limit pathing (small floor size, tall room)?

[ChickenMadness]

47 minutes ago, angrybovine said:

Excellent job! 

But won't it take multiple Dupes to groom all those shine bugs each cycle?  If you are going omelettes (which is my preferred food source) isn't it more efficient to go with a critter that produces more egg mass for less work?

I haven't tried crunching the reproductive rate and lifespan numbers, but if it turns that because of the shorter life span of the shine bugs compared to the various Hatch morphs that this is just as good this is pretty cool.

With decent automation to minimize Dupe labor (thats a lot of eggs), this seems viable (minus the performance issues Ooz just raised).

Well in terms of duplicant time spent grooming shine bugs are the worst critter since you need alot of them. So you would want to fully automate the ranches as soon as possible.

The main benefits are
-You have shine bugs in your starting zone.
-The eggs are produced quickly. (you get 2 eggs in 3 cycles)
-Doesn't take long to get the operation going.
-Resource wise it costs nothing if you're using balm lilys to feed the drecko. (it's also easy to get a drecko. There is usually atleast one near the edge of the starting biome. They even spawn inside the start biome if you're lucky)
-Free light source. If you can come up with a way to utilise them

But it would be interesting to compare....
time taken for hatches to lay eggs vs shine bugs
and hatch egg mass vs shine bug egg mass.

I'll do it now lol

Duplicant info
1 duplicant = -1000kcal per cycle
1kg omelette = 2800 kcal
0.357kg Omelette = 1000 kcal

Hatch info
- 1kg raw egg
- Reproduction +16.7%/cycle

(1kg x 0.167 = 0.167kg/cycle raw egg)

0.357kg / 0.167 = 2.137

2.14 Hatches vs 5.35 Shine Bugs to feed one duplicant (with omelettes).

Hatches give you more kcal when you hatch the eggs for BBQ meat though.
 

36 minutes ago, angrybovine said:

So its probably better just to go with less critters for performance and less ranching?  Also, maybe go ground-based critters to limit pathing (small floor size, tall room)?

There are ways to limit the paving of flying critters by using water airlocks that lead into a second room though. Critters can't fly through the water locks.

Also performance doesn't matter at the beginning of the game. I'd expect people to scrap the shine bugs towards mid-late game once they have access to all the best food sources.

[lee1026]

The bottleneck is always on grooming, and hatches (and even dreckos) do a better job producing eggs per grooming action.

[chemie]

41 minutes ago, lee1026 said:

The bottleneck is always on grooming, and hatches (and even dreckos) do a better job producing eggs per grooming action.

I think the OPs 11 dups will be doing nothing except grooming those 60 shine bugs

[lee1026]

Yeah, especially since the OP describe it as an early game thing. Hatches  are the best for food in the early game, because let's face it, if you are running out of rocks, you are not in the early game anymore.

[Oozinator]

3 hours ago, angrybovine said:

So its probably better just to go with less critters for performance and less ranching?  Also, maybe go ground-based critters to limit pathing (small floor size, tall room)?

I really like the ranching part in oni (visuals/sounds), but when i ranch, i stay small, never go into space, because when game runs <25FPS on triplespeed i start a fresh one. It always ended like this ^^

@ChickenMadness

"There are ways to limit the paving of flying critters by using water airlocks that lead into a second room though. Critters can't fly through the water locks."

Did someone test it out, if it boosts performance major?

[0xFADE]

The time sink for grooming is fairly high. It is a full time job for several dupes pretty much.  I’ve come to the conclusion that shine bugs are bad for ranching.

I don’t have any math to back it up but dense puffs are a very cheap thing to ranch. They consume very little oxygen and the meat is pretty nice.

But if meat and shells are the goal then starve ranching hatches is nice.  

Similarly passive pacu is great for meat. Even better now that you can get them from the printer. 

[Oozinator]

4 minutes ago, 0xFADE said:

They consume very little oxygen and the meat is pretty nice.

Shove voles for the meat?

[0xFADE]

I have not tried voles yet. I hear they eat too much.  You might be able to starve ranch them like hatches

[JohnFrancis]

One dupe can groom 12 critters in real game conditions. So for shine bugs you would need roughly half your dupes ranching. When voles starve their reproduction rate drops so feeding them a few calories every 9 cycles will not allow you to increase their numbers. (Have tested this)

[ChickenMadness]

1 hour ago, Oozinator said:

I really like the ranching part in oni (visuals/sounds), but when i ranch, i stay small, never go into space, because when game runs <25FPS on triplespeed i start a fresh one. It always ended like this ^^

@ChickenMadness

"There are ways to limit the paving of flying critters by using water airlocks that lead into a second room though. Critters can't fly through the water locks."

Did someone test it out, if it boosts performance major?

6

I don't know if anyone has tested whether it boosts performance. It would keep the shine bugs close to the grooming station though.

[0xFADE]

The deal with hatches is they are(or at least were) born with enough calories to lay an egg before starving to death if they get groomed.

Im not sure which other ones can since hatches are so easy to deal with. 

[ChickenMadness]

1 hour ago, 0xFADE said:

The time sink for grooming is fairly high. It is a full time job for several dupes pretty much.  I’ve come to the conclusion that shine bugs are bad for ranching.

I don’t have any math to back it up but dense puffs are a very cheap thing to ranch. They consume very little oxygen and the meat is pretty nice.

But if meat and shells are the goal then starve ranching hatches is nice.  

Similarly passive pacu is great for meat. Even better now that you can get them from the printer. 

Dense Pufts are my favourite critter to ranch as well. Very reasonable reproduction rate. Oxylite is always useful. I love using it to oxygenate my base.
They're much better for BBQ than omelettes though.

250g raw egg vs 1kg meat.

Actually I think using dense pufts for omelettes would not be viable at all. Given the amount of effort it takes to ranch them. But for BBQ they are very worth it.

I've done a bit of dense puft maths in this thread. Along with my fully automated ranch. The final design is near the bottom of the thread.
 

 

[0xFADE]

Yeah I wouldn’t use them for omelettes

[Grimgaw]

13 hours ago, ChickenMadness said:

Dense Pufts are my favourite critter to ranch as well.

I love and use your ranch build, but for Squeaky Pufts - they are an amazing way of converting otherwise (near) useless vent into best food. 

[ChickenMadness]

3 hours ago, nakomaru said:

I think I found an error in the math. The amount of food required per shine bug egg is 0kg. The only input it takes is dupe time.

If you want free food let 500 pacus reproduce on their own and eat the meat.

I think you have to feed the shine bugs or their reproduction rate will be slower. And that part of the maths is to show how many shine bugs one drecko can feed (with phosphorite).

It's not used in the rest of the calculations that convert the egg mass into omelettes and kcal. That is done under the assumption that they're happy / groomed and at max reproduction.

You won't be able to get that many Pacus until cycle 100+ though probably lol. I'd kill off the shine bugs and keep a few for decoration at that point.

[ChickenMadness]

1 hour ago, nakomaru said:

That's the error. They have increased reproduction from being tended to, not fed.

I said 500 because they are so easy to mass produce. According to saturnus' math they feed 0.1356 dupes from their natural reproduction cycle meat. So 7.5 per dupe.

2

Is that from BBQ?  Or the meat on it's own.

[Mr.Trueba]

And do you use all the 11 dupe-time for grooming all those critters PLUS all the lag that it causes?

I don't understand the point. 

It seems to my like the math problems from the school in which you make a lot of calculations and after some time you don't get any important information.

BTW, my commentary is with no offense, but I really don't understand, haha.

[tzionut]

Quote

Also performance doesn't matter at the beginning of the game. I'd expect people to scrap the shine bugs towards mid-late game once they have access to all the best food sources.

I don't agree whit this. How can you get rid of tones of abbysalite?

Quote

I’ve come to the conclusion that shine bugs are bad for ranching.

In the late game when you dig all the asteroid and have tones of abbysalite, the only 3 solution for get rid of it is:

1 converted into isolation (but the reed fiber is the bottle neck here)

2 grow abys bugs and get rid of some in this way

3 built a sort of smelter...working on it