Aquatuner Upgrade

[ArunPrasath]

Hi All,

Currently our Aquatuners reduce temperature of the pumped liquid by exactly 14 degrees; irrespective of whether its 10kg/sec or 1kg/sec, constantly consuming 1.2KW of power even for the 1kg/sec case (heat output is different though; it scales with input liquid quantity)

How it can be made is: it should have a setting to cool liquid to that particular temperature. Should take maximum of 1.2KW, but can be lesser if liquid quantity is lesser and/or input temperature is near the provided range (less than 14 degrees).

If the input liquid is too hot, it can decrease the temperature by 14 degrees (or even hold the liquid till it reaches that temperature) and then output it.

This way, it'll solve a hell lot of problems due to cooling and we players can have a deterministic way to cool liquids.

Current problem of cooling variable input liquid temperature can be easily solved using this method.

PS: The liquid storages does average out the temperature; but what about storages in multiple areas/in multiple storages? An offset in average temp will screw up some finely calibrated farms.

[yoakenashi]

Thanks for the suggestion. I understand why you would like this control, but I personally do not like the idea. The fact we have to build additional controls outside of the aquatuner is part of the appeal of the game. We need to use different limited parts to build a system that meets our needs. Since we can do that, we shouldn’t need to create or modify buildings. I know there are players that will like this idea and others that won’t. Hopefully they weigh in; maybe I’m in the minority.

[ArunPrasath]

lol... I do follow you.

After seeing way too many of my pipes being broken due to different input temps, caused me to give this suggestion.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you are bringing the inputs to aquatuner directly from the water sieves. What happens when the water sieve's 40 degree constant output is changed to how it actually is supposed to be, based on input PW temperature? You'll have a hell of a time to try to average out the temperature or cool down the water to your expected level. You may work it out in the short term, but in the long term, you'll be feeding water from all sorts of sources from ice biomes to petroleum generators (unless you are using debug/sandbox mode).

While it'll certainly be a challenge to fix all that, it'll become a headache sooner or later as time goes on. You'll end up thinking why the hell am I fixing this so many times every few dozen cycles. Any game becomes frustrating if you end up trying to rework something again and again to make it work.

My above suggestion can be used to remove the 40 degree constant temperature output exploit in the game as well. Maybe the devs can have a look at this idea: @Ipsquiggle, @Cheerio etc

[yoakenashi]

My water temperatures also vary but are nearly always above 14°C, so I simply keep looping it through my aquatuner while it's above 14°C. Once it's below 14°C I release it. Assuming you keep a full liquid reservoir feeding the aquatuner loop, one could output liquid at a constant 14°C.

Now, if you're looking for something that can output any temperature you want and accept water temperatures between 0-100°C, then you can build off of this general concept to output 0-2°C water. You can adjust the setpoints to whatever you like, such as 18-22°C.

It essentially loops the water back and mixes it with the input to ensure the input to the aquatuner stays fixed (14-16°C). If the input gets too hot, then cold water is mixed with it to cool to 16°C. If the input gets too cold, then hot water is mixed with it to heat it to 14°C.

Spoiler

Green is liquid at 14-16°C
Blue is liquid at 0-2°C
Red is liquid at 85°C
Yellow is input liquid at 0-100°C

The math for the valves is given here if you are interested:

Spoiler

Assume input is 0°C and output of liquid tepidizer is 85°C and the temperature to the aquatuner is desired to be 14°C, valve position is x:

0(1-x) + 85x = 14
x = 14/85 ~ 0.1647 or 1600 g/s

Assume input is 100°C and output of aquatuner is 0°C and the temperature to the aquatuner is desired to be 14°C, valve position is x:

100(1-x) + 0x = 14
100 - 100x = 14
100x = 86
x = 0.86 or 8600 g/s

You will of course need to prime the liquid reservoir and ensure it is full in order to ensure the best averaging.

[Yunru]

On 2/10/2019 at 6:58 AM, ArunPrasath said:

What happens when the water sieve's 40 degree constant output is changed to how it actually is supposed to be, based on input PW temperature? 

That is an opinion you are stating as a fact.

[ArunPrasath]

22 hours ago, yoakenashi said:

My water temperatures also vary but are nearly always above 14°C, so I simply keep looping it through my aquatuner while it's above 14°C. Once it's below 14°C I release it. Assuming you keep a full liquid reservoir feeding the aquatuner loop, one could output liquid at a constant 14°C.

Now, if you're looking for something that can output any temperature you want and accept water temperatures between 0-100°C, then you can build off of this general concept to output 0-2°C water. You can adjust the setpoints to whatever you like, such as 18-22°C.

It essentially loops the water back and mixes it with the input to ensure the input to the aquatuner stays fixed (14-16°C). If the input gets too hot, then cold water is mixed with it to cool to 16°C. If the input gets too cold, then hot water is mixed with it to heat it to 14°C.

  Reveal hidden contents

Green is liquid at 14-16°C
Blue is liquid at 0-2°C
Red is liquid at 85°C
Yellow is input liquid at 0-100°C

The math for the valves is given here if you are interested:

  Reveal hidden contents

Assume input is 0°C and output of liquid tepidizer is 85°C and the temperature to the aquatuner is desired to be 14°C, valve position is x:

0(1-x) + 85x = 14
x = 14/85 ~ 0.1647 or 1600 g/s

Assume input is 100°C and output of aquatuner is 0°C and the temperature to the aquatuner is desired to be 14°C, valve position is x:

100(1-x) + 0x = 14
100 - 100x = 14
100x = 86
x = 0.86 or 8600 g/s

You will of course need to prime the liquid reservoir and ensure it is full in order to ensure the best averaging.

Nice method you've got there!

8 hours ago, Yunru said:

That is an opinion you are stating as a fact.

How would you rather have this? This makes the most logical sense and is what happens in real life too.

[badgamer123]

I actually want a aquatuner downgrade some thing like 800 W with a bit less efficient then the 1200W version.I could power them more easily with wire,right now you need to dedicated 1 line for aquatuner or using heavy wire.

[Neotuck]

what about having the power requirements depending on the packet size?

If we look at thermal regulators compared to aquatuners they also reduce intake gases by 14C, however they only use 120 W

the main reason is full gas packets are one tenth the size of a full liquid packets

so if we limited liquid packets with a valve to only 1000g/s then the aquatuner should only pull 120 W as well

[cpy]

Balancing and temp check is part of the fun.

[Yunru]

5 hours ago, ArunPrasath said:

How would you rather have this?

As the designers choose to have it, which is clewrly a fixed temperature (for now). Realism means nothing in a video game, only internal consistency. 

[Kabrute]

8 hours ago, ArunPrasath said:

This makes the most logical sense and is what happens in real life too.

It is perfectly logical to think that setting out a block of ice will make it melt, doesn't happen in antartica, why?  location location location, for these purposes the location is fictional, therefore logic is not necessarily applicable, and real life has absolutely no bearing what so ever thus your argument is fallacious and self serving... but thats just my opinion

[Zarquan]

4 hours ago, Kabrute said:

It is perfectly logical to think that setting out a block of ice will make it melt, doesn't happen in antartica, why?  location location location, for these purposes the location is fictional, therefore logic is not necessarily applicable, and real life has absolutely no bearing what so ever thus your argument is fallacious and self serving... but thats just my opinion

I agree with lack of realism (in that it doesn't follow the real world's rules), but I disagree with lack of logic.  This game is its own universe with, ideally, its own set of logically consistent rules.  Saying the realism and logic are the same is not good in my opinion because it is a justification for bugs like the borg cube remaining in the game. 

I think that we have the tools to handle precise temperatures extremely reliably using the averaging you talked about.  I managed to fill a container with hydrogen at precisely -252.1 C in my attempted pre-space liquid hydrogen generator. 

The idea that the aquatuner doesn't consume full power when not under full load would be nice tool for power regulation.

[D.L.S.]

Well it is task for player: build automation to make device more efficient(we do so for generators with smart battery, for example), in this case it is not so easy i think, would be great if devs added smart liquid and gas reservoirs with automation outputs similar to smart storage compactor/battery, then we could use smart reservoir as buffer and detect when there is less then 10kg of stuff in the pipe to turn aquatuner off and wait for full packet.

So better support smart gas/liquid reservoirs suggestions.