Water purification with chlorine

[Technoincubus]

Water chlorionation is known to us for a hundred years now.

Quote

Permanent water chlorination began in 1905, when a faulty slow sand filter and a contaminated water supply caused a serious typhoid fever epidemic in Lincoln, England.^[3] Dr. Alexander Cruickshank Houston used chlorination of the water to stop the epidemic. His installation fed a concentrated solution of so-called chloride of lime to the water being treated. This was not simply modern calcium chloride, but contained chlorine gas dissolved in lime-water (dilute calcium hydroxide) to form calcium hypochlorite (chlorinated lime). The chlorination of the water supply helped stop the epidemic and as a precaution, the chlorination was continued until 1911 when a new water supply was instituted.

And as chlorine have very few uses now, wouldn't it be best to make a machine that has gas intake for chlorine and clean water for output? At leat that way we could utilize chlorine for a useful purpose and nac step away from non-renewable sand usage.

[LeadfootSlim]

One option might be a way to make Chlorine Packets as a "filtration medium" item, which would allow you to functionally keep your old architecture in place. Of course, since Chlorine is an infinite resource thanks to Geysers, there'd have to be some kind of waste product or consumable ingredient as a result... Plastic, perhaps?

[Technoincubus]

Plastic hardly qualifies as a waste. Some kind of gas maybe that would be rid of.

[brummbar7]

I think the problem with water chlorination is that Klei has gone to all these lengths to try to set up a system with food poisoning, requiring heat to kill the germs.  If they allow water chlorination, they just mostly obviated most of the heat-germ-killing mechanic.  Only the super technical people would use heat at that point (as part of their aqua-tuners).  I think this is the main reason Klei has continued to refuse to put in water chlorination.  If we ever do get it, it will likely be at a monstrous power cost, or require dupe operation or offgas chlorine, or some other significant disadvantage that leaves some room for simple heat sterilization as a strategy, my guess.

Regarding waste, I think with the addition of plastic it's perhaps time that acids be added to the game.   As a waste product, they eat through any tile but plastic (or glass, if that ever makes it in) over time.  We would of course need the ability to make plastic pipes, and possibly pumps.  Then the chlorinator could output an acid that requires plastic to contain and deal with, making it a later game tech.

[Kiarla]

I love this idea. We really need something like this... Even if it was a multi level filtration system! There could be more viruses later on in the game that REQUIRE purification and won't die with superheat.... or vise versa I like the idea that I might have to make a filter, superheat the water and then chlorinate it as I get further and further with my base. Scale up the buildings as I get more resources to extend m end game.

[n37runn3r]

If we had to make the chlorine into a liquid first (by supercooling) it would require people to work for it more than just having the gas somehow work to clean water. Otherwise a machine that uses bleachstone maybe? It would be a finite resource so you would have to choose between it and hand sanitizers.

[Technoincubus]

Imo infiniteness is what makes it appealing. You have to make pumps and stuff to deliver chlorine and remove some kind of waste product All for the sake of independance from some finite resource. 

[Lord Murden]

Love the idea! First we should have to turn the chlorine gass into liquid ourselves and then mix it with plastic in a machine to make brita-like filters to use in the water distiller instead of sand. 

[brummbar7]

14 hours ago, Lord Murden said:

Love the idea! First we should have to turn the chlorine gass into liquid ourselves and then mix it with plastic in a machine to make brita-like filters to use in the water distiller instead of sand. 

I'd suggest thimble reed fiber as well.   Thimble reed really needs a usability bump or nobody is ever going to farm it, given it's outrageous water costs.  It's not food so any presumed revamp of the food system isn't going to help it.  Honestly sand could stand to be reduced hugely in amount available, and then let the player produce sustainable filters via thimble reeds etc.  It's currently just so very easy to use deodorizers to easy-mode filter all the PO2 in the asteroid.

[LeadfootSlim]

On 10/16/2017 at 1:50 AM, Technoincubus said:

Plastic hardly qualifies as a waste. Some kind of gas maybe that would be rid of.

No, I meant plastic as a resource needed to make chlorine tablets. It's functionally infinite so long as you can put up with plastic production.

I'd suggest thimble reed fiber as well.   Thimble reed really needs a usability bump or nobody is ever going to farm it, given it's outrageous water costs.  It's not food so any presumed revamp of the food system isn't going to help it.  Honestly sand could stand to be reduced hugely in amount available, and then let the player produce sustainable filters via thimble reeds etc.  It's currently just so very easy to use deodorizers to easy-mode filter all the PO2 in the asteroid.

I made a topic suggesting this, with the caveat that you need a pressure differential to make the filters work.

 

[Technoincubus]

I'd rather make some chlorine-purification machine with plastic parts requirement to make it late-game, and then add reed fiber or other underrepresented growable as a replacement for filtration medium. Like a press to make reed fiber filters. 

But it shouldn't take a lot of dupe time becuase then it will lose any meaning to have dupes constantly occupied with it. Filters should least at least for some time.. 

[Epilogue1212]

Agreed, I barely use chlorine. Once in a while I have a reason to flood an area with it to kill germs, but since the germs were reined in, I have only used it once. We need a reason to look for chlorine geysers. I like the option of disinfecting water with liquid chlorine:

Liquid chlorine to remove germs from water (does not change water type)

Sand to turn polluted water to clean water (does not change germ population) To address sand running out, we could use reed fiber + plastic for late game option.

[TheScaryOne]

Liquid chlorine added to the water makes perfect sense. It'd require more work than heating and cooling the water, and be renewable. And the "sanitized" water should off-gas chlorine until it becomes regular clean water, just like chlorinated municipal drinking water.

[vovik]

Usage of chlorine fordesinfection in here

 

[saltyteabag]

On 10/16/2017 at 10:01 AM, brummbar7 said:

I think the problem with water chlorination is that Klei has gone to all these lengths to try to set up a system with food poisoning, requiring heat to kill the germs.  If they allow water chlorination, they just mostly obviated most of the heat-germ-killing mechanic.  Only the super technical people would use heat at that point (as part of their aqua-tuners).

I don't think that's the case, though.  I would see chlorination as a quick and dirty way to deal with germs in water in the early game, and heating as a more more sustainable method for later on.  Heating water to kill germs can be problematic when you're still getting established.  The tepidizer is pretty far down the tech tree (tier 4), and takes quite a bit of power.  Plus you have to deal with all that heat, and will probably want some automation to control the water temperature.

Whereas with chlorination, they could just add a chlorinator machine to the "Decontamination" item on the tech tree (tier 3), next to the oh-so-useful ore scrubber.  Requiring only a bit of power and chlorine to operate, you'd only really need basic tier 1 tech to run it, except maybe a gas filter (tier 2) to separate the chlorine from other gasses.  There's enough chlorine pockets around the map to keep an early base going until they can get to something more sustainable.

On 10/16/2017 at 10:01 AM, brummbar7 said:

If we ever do get it, it will likely be at a monstrous power cost, or require dupe operation or offgas chlorine, or some other significant disadvantage that leaves some room for simple heat sterilization as a strategy, my guess.

I think a fair tradeoff rather that giving the chlorinator a massive power cost (or some of the other ideas that have been proposed here), could be limited throughput.  Make it process something small, like 250g/s, which is only 1/4 of the throughput of the water sieve.  It would be enough to support the microbe musher so that everyone doesn't get the s**ts, but would become impractical to try and treat the colony's entire water supply with.

Also, if they could come up with some other uses for chlorine, that would provide additional motivation for people to transition to the tepidizer and save the chlorine for bigger and better things.

[vovik]

Chlornator is here.

Simple water chlorinator, no need to think of something complex, works totally on dupe power.

On exit water comes out germless, just need to look after amount of dupes doing delivery.
Efficiency scales with ammount of  bottle emptiers.

[vovik]

Also, chlorinator is useful only when talking about duplicants consuming water and does not affect any machinery, so using chlorine to desinfect water used in machinery not affected by dupes seems obsolete and when for dups - dups can clear water themselves.

[vonVile]

I've not 100% tested it, but submerge Storage in Water and put Bleachstone in it.

[TheScaryOne]

This does nothing. If the ore scrubber works as vovik shows it should be renamed so it's use is more clear. Does sterile slime still produce slimelung when refined?

[saltyteabag]

17 hours ago, vovik said:

Chlornator is here.
Simple water chlorinator, no need to think of something complex, works totally on dupe power.
On exit water comes out germless, just need to look after amount of dupes doing delivery.
Efficiency scales with ammount of  bottle emptiers.

I tested this out in debug mode, and it doesn't work for me either.   Has anyone else tried it?   I do think think this would be a great solution for early game water cleaning if it did work.

[vovik]

52 minutes ago, saltyteabag said:

I tested this out in debug mode, and it doesn't work for me either.   Has anyone else tried it?   I do think think this would be a great solution for early game water cleaning if it did work.

Use amount of ore scrubber same as dupes delivering water.

 

 

It works for me.

I can make a vid if you insist.

And useamount of wash basins same as delivery dups.
Or restrict delivery area to 1 duplicant.
Seems you forgot that dupes dont que on ore scrubber and wash basin and pass with germy water.
Also, 1 mil germs on 300 kg of water? Thats more than 760k on 200 kg of water, scrubber removes only 480k per use. Ore scrubber removes germs but it has got ranges. Also where would you get that amount of food poisioning in a game?

 

[bzgzd]

1 hour ago, saltyteabag said:

I tested this out in debug mode, and it doesn't work for me either.   Has anyone else tried it?   I do think think this would be a great solution for early game water cleaning if it did work.

Ore scrubber can disinfect liquid in bottles.

I think it is not intentional but it can disinfect also exosuits or seeds. I tried it with food but that doesn't work.

 

[saltyteabag]

42 minutes ago, bzgzd said:

Ore scrubber can disinfect liquid in bottles.

I think it is not intentional but it can disinfect also exosuits or seeds. I tried it with food but that doesn't work.

Ahh, I figured out my problem.  My test water had more germs than it could handle.  Apparently if your water has much more than 1,000,000 germs per 1000kg, the ore scrubber method becomes less effective.  That seems pretty reasonable, though.

I agree that it is probably unintentional.  Seems like the devs should at least edit the name/description of the ore scrubber to make it more apparent if they're going to leave it like this.

[TheScaryOne]

You can link up a couple of ore scrubbers to take care of really germy water, too, but should limit the area to one dupe only and space out the ore scrubbers

[Technoincubus]

I just can't think about using ore scrubbers. They purify ore, but I never saw any problems from using germ-filled ore. I don't think that's even a problem and it have any use.