[Game Update] - 234607

[Cheerio]

• Flipped the Power Transformer's meter should now be in the right place
• Duplicants who have to pee but cannot reach their preferred assigned toilet will now attempt to rush to the nearest bathroom if it's urgent
• Fixed a crash that could occur on load if your save file was attempting to spawn an object that had been removed from the game
• Changed the molecular masses of Petroleum and Naphtha so that they will not get stuck in the middle of other liquids with the exact same molecular mass
• Thimble Reeds now produce seeds 
• Reported Oxygen consumed by Duplicants is no longer double their actual Oxygen consumption
• Exosuit Dock should only fill 200kg of its storage with Oxygen and leave the other 200kg for the suit
• Assignables should now be properly unassigned on Duplicant death
• Trapping and releasing a Morb should no longer crash
• Mess Hall tooltip should now display room size
• Reduced cost of the Animal Trap
• Improved Oil Well efficiency
• Medicines should now be able to be stored in Ration Boxes/Refrigerators
• Duplicants should no longer take a Vitamin Chews if their immunity is at 100%

 

View full update

 

[Michi01]

18 minutes ago, Cheerio said:

Improved Oil Well efficiency

240 W instead of 480, -1000 g/s of water instead of -5000, +3333.33 g/s of oil instead of +1000

Edited September 27, 2017 by Michi01

[goboking]

Just now, Michi01 said:

240 W instead of 480, -1000 g/s of water instead of -5000, +3333.33 g/s of oil instead of +1000 g/s

Wow.  That's...drastic.  I hope they didn't go too far the other way, as they did with germs when the Disease Upgrade dropped had me hoping the dropped.

[Michi01]

17 minutes ago, Cheerio said:

Changed the molecular masses of Petroleum and Naphtha so that they will not get stuck in the middle of other liquids with the exact same molecular mass

I hope that the molecular mass of hydrogen, oxygen and chlorine will also be changed, as they currently all weigh half as much as they're supposed to.

[Animar]

Still waiting for the Lavatories to be fixed

[Saturnus]

Just now, Michi01 said:

I hope that the molecular mass of hydrogen, oxygen and chlorine will also be changed, as they currently all weigh half as much as they're supposed to.

I think it's because the game figures hydrogen is H(mono) instead of H2, and oxygen is O(mono) instead of O2.

[Michi01]

Just now, Saturnus said:

I think it's because the game figures hydrogen is H(mono) instead of H2, and oxygen is O(mono) instead of O2.

Yeah, I think so too.

[Saturnus]

2 minutes ago, Michi01 said:

Yeah, I think so too.

Same for Chlorine as well. Chlorine gas is Cl2, not Cl(mono)

[Botaxalim]

Pharma chamber(old rejunevator)  seems just better version than medical bed, without healing HP. I dont know they changed in oil update.

And now they balance the oil well, its using petrol generator worth now?. Can someone enlightment me, iam bad at math. How many cost net power plus clearing the waste VERSUS natgas generator using pol.water - fertilizer - nat gas gen. I want steaming all my polluted water for powering oil well

[CfSapper]

44 minutes ago, goboking said:

Wow.  That's...drastic.  I hope they didn't go too far the other way, as they did with germs when the Disease Upgrade dropped had me hoping the dropped.

Not sure, the 3333.33 still would require 2 wells to power one generator which is fair, maybe 3 would be better for balance but 2 works better then the 6 it was before, the water cost might be a little low now but hey that why we test this stuff right? The lower power cost helps balance what you get in your investment and that seems "right" as it is just a liquid pump. Guess we'll see.

[Michi01]

27 minutes ago, Botaxalim said:

Pharma chamber(old rejunevator)  seems just better version than medical bed, without healing HP. I dont know they changed in oil update.

That's been there since the beta's release.

[Jackblac]

41 minutes ago, Botaxalim said:

Pharma chamber(old rejunevator)  seems just better version than medical bed, without healing HP. I dont know they changed in oil update.

And now they balance the oil well, its using petrol generator worth now?. Can someone enlightment me, iam bad at math. How many cost net power plus clearing the waste VERSUS natgas generator using pol.water - fertilizer - nat gas gen. I want steaming all my polluted water for powering oil well

For petrol gen you first need the Oil refinery at 3/5 time usage and its a dupe operation. That + pump for it use (480W+240W)*0,6 = 432W. Then to take care of the stuff that comes out you need a liquid pump running 12,5% time and gas pump running at full capacity. those are 240W + 0.125*240W = 270W. This assumes that you use a water layer on top of the polluted water so it wont evaporate. You can feed the CO2 to slickers, but need a way to get rid of polluted water. Even without thinking of polluted water you are using an average of 0,7kw to get 2kw of power. You could just feed the polluted water to fert makers and run the nat gas gens with it and nat gas from oil refinery. The power required to process the polluted water in fertilizer makers is 1kw. So if you dont count the nat gas generated by that whole system you are generating just 300w. nat gas produced is 60g/s*0,6+ 8,333*20g/s =202,66g/s = about 3,3 nat gas gens = 2,7kw of power. This means you could have it as an extra layer of power produced, but it still produces less power than nat gas gens and requires dupe operation 3/5 of the time to keep the thing running which about locks up one dupe into it with sleeping, eating and bio breaks taken into account.

This whole thing was calculated without using the oil well. That would make the efficiency even worse

Edited September 27, 2017 by Jackblac
math mistake

[Michi01]

1 minute ago, Jackblac said:

This means you could have it as an extra layer of power produced, but it still produces less power than nat gas gens and requires dupe operation 3/5 of the time to keep the thing running which about locks up one dupe into it with sleeping, eating and bio breaks taken into account.

The petroleum generator also produces more heat for the same amount of power compared to the natural gas generator.

[Jackblac]

3 minutes ago, Michi01 said:

The petroleum generator also produces more heat for the same amount of power compared to the natural gas generator.

The pet gen and oil refinery together are just 150W of heat. 3 nat gas gens is 60W of heat for some power generated. That is 2,5 times more heat generated

[Risu]

1 hour ago, CfSapper said:

Not sure, the 3333.33 still would require 2 wells to power one generator which is fair, maybe 3 would be better for balance but 2 works better then the 6 it was before, the water cost might be a little low now but hey that why we test this stuff right? The lower power cost helps balance what you get in your investment and that seems "right" as it is just a liquid pump. Guess we'll see.

1.8 kg/s of water and 907.2W to generate 2000W.
100 kg of water and 98400W to make a plastic tile.

Guess it's reasonable, but it feels like it swung a bit too far in the other direction.
 

[CfSapper]

If plastic is going to be a usable resource it needs to be "affordable" i haven't played with the new settings yet and even then I'll have to wait till the weekend to play with it outside of debug but even if it is to easy now, its good to "bracket" these things. Go to high then to low, and bounce between too high and low narrowing in as you go to find the right value your looking for. 

[Risu]

35 minutes ago, turbonl64 said:

Isn't it 2800W? We should not rule out the gas generated by the oil refinery. The extra gas generator will bump up power and water consumption as well of course, but I think that is really worth it.

I honestly can't form an opinion on the new numbers. If you play heavily on synergies, then yes: maybe it swung that little bit too much in the other direction. On the other hand, that's perhaps the rightful reward for the effort of putting down those synergies.

The gases generated by the refinery and the polymerizer are just bonuses.
These numbers are only taking into account the exact amount needed.

Funny enough, enough natural gas is created to generate another 1280W per 2000W generated,
ignoring the cost for any gas pumps and filters in that one.

Using the gas created when producing plastic instead, a plastic tile makes 71111.1111W of power.
This drops the net power loss down to 27288.8889W.
 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Risu

[Botaxalim]

my head is hurt
can someone give me "noob calculation" counting waste,heat and resource with numbers is painful 
ok, with single carbon skimmer can run 3 natgas gen,so 9 fetilizer synth
 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Botaxalim

[goboking]

3 hours ago, Michi01 said:

240 W instead of 480, -1000 g/s of water instead of -5000, +3333.33 g/s of oil instead of +1000

Revisiting these numbers, we've gone from 5 kg/s of water for 1 kg/s of crude oil to 1 kg/s of water for 3.33 kg/s of crude oil.  That's .2  kg/s of oil per kg/s of water to 3.33 per, which is obviously a massive swing of the pendulum.  Surely there's a more reasonable middle ground?  How would things look if the ratio was a simple 1 to 1?

[Risu]

8 minutes ago, goboking said:

Revisiting these numbers, we've gone from 5 kg/s of water for 1 kg/s of crude oil to 1 kg/s of water for 3.33 kg/s of crude oil.  That's .2  kg/s of oil per kg/s of water to 3.33 per, which is obviously a massive swing of the pendulum.  Surely there's a more reasonable middle ground?  How would things look if the ratio was a simple 1 to 1?

6 kg/s water and 2016W to generate 2000W and 3146.6667W worth of natural gas.
 

[trukogre]

48 minutes ago, goboking said:

Revisiting these numbers, we've gone from 5 kg/s of water for 1 kg/s of crude oil to 1 kg/s of water for 3.33 kg/s of crude oil.  That's .2  kg/s of oil per kg/s of water to 3.33 per, which is obviously a massive swing of the pendulum.  Surely there's a more reasonable middle ground?  How would things look if the ratio was a simple 1 to 1?

When you're looking for "reasonable middle ground", the problem is that there are many middle grounds between many extremes.  You're saying we should look for middle ground between the old, very bad numbers, and these new, very different numbers.  But if you look at the new numbers, in terms of power requirements/material requirements to run the generator, versus power produced, and compare them to coal/hydrogen/natural gas generators, you'll find that the new numbers are already 'the middle ground', in that the pet. generator is the most powerful generator, but has the worst ratio of inputs to outputs.  Let's have an analogy.  You're trying to get a job, the industry standard is around 50,000 dollars per year in your field.  You're trying to negotiate your starting salary.  You suggest 60,000 a year, aiming a bit high.  Their initial offer is to pay you 6 dollars per year.  They then come back with well, our offer was 320 hours per dollar, you suggested 25 dollars an hour, why don't we just compromise on a reasonable middle ground of a straight 1 to 1 ratio, 1 dollar per hour.Sometimes the reasonable middle ground isn't actually reasonable, or middle. 

[trukogre]

2 hours ago, Risu said:

1.8 kg/s of water and 907.2W to generate 2000W.
100 kg of water and 98400W to make a plastic tile.

Guess it's reasonable, but it feels like it swung a bit too far in the other direction.
 

It's fair by comparison to the other generators, the problem is the old generators already gave enough power for everything we needed.  If the next update provides more power consumers, then it will all work out. I was never happy with the magical nature of fertilizer maker power, so moving to oil wells instead of that is a positive move in my book at least.  I am curious to see what additional power consumers are in the pipeline, especially if the steam generator is coming for yet more power generation.

Edited September 27, 2017 by trukogre

[Botaxalim]

ok got it, i hope im not wrong, its based on how many carbon skimmer is needed, just randomly using photoshop
 

i know this just stupid math, since we cant calculate the liquid or gas travel in second, depend on how long pipe
any comment, correct me if im wrong, im just dumb for math

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Botaxalim
wrong pic. correcting mistake, new fert maker for natgas geyser

[Whispershade]

52 minutes ago, turbonl64 said:

-natural gas geyser: +160g/s NG (more or less)

@Risu can chime in, but apparently the number has been closer to 250g/s since Outbreak.

[Whispershade]

Just now, turbonl64 said:

I believe it was enough for 2,66 gas generators and you had to build one additional FM to get all 3 running.

That was true in Ag update, yes.