Sasza22 Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, goboking said: I suspect most of the developers working on ONI have been reassigned to other projects and the skeleton crew left behind(...) No offence but i keep seeing this argument every time a game is not updated for a while, even if it`s just a week somebody pops in saying that the game has been abandoned and most people are working on something else. It`s funny for me to see it again here, despite there being a strict update schedule. I`ve seen them not being able to get updates fully done in time for a few upgrades already. The longer development cycle is a good thing imo. I just expected them to fix some of the biggest bugs before going full time work on the new version. I kinda expect it to be a big update regardless of what`s in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goboking Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, Sasza22 said: No offence but i keep seeing this argument every time a game is not updated for a while, even if it`s just a week somebody pops in saying that the game has been abandoned and most people are working on something else. It`s funny for me to see it again here, despite there being a strict update schedule. I`ve seen them not being able to get updates fully done in time for a few upgrades already. The longer development cycle is a good thing imo. I just expected them to fix some of the biggest bugs before going full time work on the new version. I kinda expect it to be a big update regardless of what`s in it. I didn't say the game's been abandoned, I said the developers are in the final stretch leading to the game's release and thus don't need to dedicate as many resources to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Trueba Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 I stopped playing weeks ago becauae of crashes. But it's a good thing, now I have more time to work and sleep, hahaha. Thanks Klei! Maybe... Hahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakuraKoi Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 36 minutes ago, Sasza22 said: No offence but i keep seeing this argument every time a game is not updated for a while, even if it`s just a week somebody pops in saying that the game has been abandoned and most people are working on something else. It`s funny for me to see it again here, despite there being a strict update schedule. and someday they will be like "finally I am right and YOU ARE WRONG!" 36 minutes ago, Sasza22 said: I`ve seen them not being able to get updates fully done in time for a few upgrades already. The longer development cycle is a good thing imo. I just expected them to fix some of the biggest bugs before going full time work on the new version. I kinda expect it to be a big update regardless of what`s in it. Seriously, what has been done in past updates is sure on the level where one does not expect them to do it within a month and a half, they follow a strict schedule and method which obviously works out quite well. Surely, I am not happy about being hit by 'em rocket errors but those who actually read the bug tracker know that they have them fixed in the next preview. People think that they can drop hotfixes just like that, without wasting any time which could be used to release the game earlier/stuff more fixes in the update. That's not how it works, especially not for bugs which are not just some typo somewhere but stretch through many classes. It is foolish to think that in Early Access "Customer Satisfaction" has a high priority when many anyway complain that this is not the game anymore which they intended to purchase, basically throwing a hissy fit over natural gas cooking being not as easy or dupes daring to express themselves/morale being more than just food and decor yet limiting their supposed designs. 38 minutes ago, goboking said: I didn't say the game's been abandoned, I said the developers are in the final stretch leading to the game's release and thus don't need to dedicate as many resources to the game. No, the primary and limiting resource sure is fully utilized and you have no way of knowing that they only have some supposed "skeleton crew" when obviously programmers are that resource who set the pace and they are who work the most during a final stretch. It is artists who'd be relegated to new projects like many are in other games who would already work on DLC before launch so that they are not made to leave, or at least make new concept arts for new projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blash365 Posted November 17, 2018 Author Share Posted November 17, 2018 9 hours ago, Sasza22 said: No offence but i keep seeing this argument every time a game is not updated for a while, even if it`s just a week somebody pops in saying that the game has been abandoned and most people are working on something else. It`s funny for me to see it again here, despite there being a strict update schedule. I`ve seen them not being able to get updates fully done in time for a few upgrades already. The longer development cycle is a good thing imo. I just expected them to fix some of the biggest bugs before going full time work on the new version. I kinda expect it to be a big update regardless of what`s in it. This thread is not about updates. Updates are fine and i am one of the first ones to say that whenever the issue comes up. I am posting about hotfixes here! And this topic has been lacking in the past weeks. 9 hours ago, SakuraKoi said: People think that they can drop hotfixes just like that, without wasting any time which could be used to release the game earlier/stuff more fixes in the update. That's not how it works, especially not for bugs which are not just some typo somewhere but stretch through many classes. I dont think that. I am in the software industry myself and i explicitly stated in the OP that i understand that maintaining several branches/versions is hard. But in this case it means 3-6 (!) weeks without a fix for several frequently occuring crashes. This is something that doesnt seem to work well with your community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SackMaggie Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 I agree with you guys that the last update was long enough to make me forget what changes. So I've waited for 3 weeks, Just wait another week or something for a preview branch with big contents and I hope they don't make me feel disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakuraKoi Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, blash365 said: 3-6 (!) weeks without a fix for several frequently occuring crashes. I think you meant "re-occurring". It should be obvious that there is a difference between being able to avoid them due to there being set conditions and being unable to avoid them because conditions are randomly met by the game itself. Making frequent crashes such which happen randomly and often while the player is helpless. It should be obvious which type is more in need of a hotfix, especially when one does not even occur until very late. Needless to say, "several" is also not quite right, you have rockets bugging the game and wrangling... of which the latter has apparently yet to be reported/land in the bug tracker (the prior I sure do recall being reporting a lot, by myself extensively included). The other problems you report are minor inconveniences of which the game sure has many, it is EA after all and the roadmap already says that such will be addressed even more than before. Should I also mention that 3 weeks is not a long time? Perhaps in our society where fads lasts for mere days, perception of time has been a bit skewed. Of course, not wanting to play an Early Access of Early Access and trying to shift the blame away is just inane. To assert to understand yet being the one who is that impatient is ironic to say the least.  Surely, I was tempted to ask "why" they changed their hotfix schedule but you just ask them "to" change it, even if you sugarcoat it. I can't help but give this a 3/10 on the scale for "conceit", "shortsightedness" and "selfishness", nothing really bad nor major but I rather trust the more-or-less taciturn devs who deliver amazing results in making the best decisions than I trust you, even though I feel your pain (it is not like I can land my rocket for the 2nd time either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blash365 Posted November 17, 2018 Author Share Posted November 17, 2018 1 hour ago, SackMaggie said: I agree with you guys that the last update was long enough to make me forget what changes. So I've waited for 3 weeks, Just wait another week or something for a preview branch with big contents and I hope they don't make me feel disappointed. It's not about new content. It's about stability! 57 minutes ago, SakuraKoi said: I think you meant "re-occurring". It should be obvious that there is a difference between being able to avoid them due to there being set conditions. You can avoid every crash by not playing the game. Is that a solution? No it's a temporary workaround. And it is acceptable on shortterm basis, not for an entire month though. 57 minutes ago, SakuraKoi said: Needless to say, "several" is also not quite right, you have rockets bugging the game and wrangling... of which the latter has apparently yet to be reported/land in the bug tracker (the prior I sure do recall being reporting a lot, by myself extensively included). Well, rockets and wrangling of shove voles/dreckos is kind of new. So of course they are prone to instability. The game is more than a year old. It goes without saying that the core mechanics are stable. That might be an achievement on its own, but it's not exactly the best argument to excuse a bugged out feature. Maybe there are even more bugs that i cant even play-test right now. I didnt get gassy moos yet. Or gas grass. 57 minutes ago, SakuraKoi said: The other problems you report are minor inconveniences of which the game sure has many, it is EA after all and the roadmap already says that such will be addressed even more than before. So? I mentioned them to show that it is not simply crashes, but also other factors. I am sure other players will have more to add to the list. And it goes without saying that klei has to make some kind of triage to select bugs to hotfix and bugs to fix in the next preview. My OP is stating that the current triage is far from optimal. 57 minutes ago, SakuraKoi said: Should I also mention that 3 weeks is not a long time? Perhaps in our society where fads lasts for mere days, perception of time has been a bit skewed. Of course, not wanting to play an Early Access of Early Access and trying to shift the blame away is just inane. To assert to understand yet being the one who is that impatient is ironic to say the least. 3 weeks is a long time. It should be possible to release a hotfix at least every week. And it was so in the past (even more frequent actually). Turning this into a philosophical discussion about the value of time and impatience doesnt do you any favor. If you want shortlived society, turn off your cell phone and your computer. Go into the woods and wait for the teklanika river to freeze over. 57 minutes ago, SakuraKoi said: Surely, I was tempted to ask "why" they changed their hotfix schedule but you just ask them "to" change it, even if you sugarcoat it. I can't help but give this a 3/10 on the scale for "conceit", "shortsightedness" and "selfishness", nothing really bad nor major but I rather trust the more-or-less taciturn devs who deliver amazing results in making the best decisions than I trust you, even though I feel your pain (it is not like I can land my rocket for the 2nd time either). My point is. The crashes are there. They have to be fixed. They are most likely fixed already. Now someone has to do the tedious task of merging them into the live branch. It is not a nice task, but it is doable. And delaying hotfixes for 6 weeks is sure a good indication that a merge would be a better choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 11 minutes ago, blash365 said: If you want shortlived society, turn off your cell phone and your computer. Go into the woods and wait for the teklanika river to freeze over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blash365 Posted November 17, 2018 Author Share Posted November 17, 2018 18 minutes ago, Oozinator said: It's a movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakuraKoi Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 2 hours ago, blash365 said: You can avoid every crash by not playing the game. Is that a solution? No it's a temporary workaround. And it is acceptable on shortterm basis, not for an entire month though. If that's your counterargument then I have nothing more to add, you have splendidly shown how to terribly avoid the point. Well, rockets and wrangling of shove voles/dreckos is kind of new. So of course they are prone to instability. The game is more than a year old. It goes without saying that the core mechanics are stable. That might be an achievement on its own, but it's not exactly the best argument to excuse a bugged out feature. Why is it suddenly about excusing bugs&crashes? Maybe there are even more bugs that i cant even play-test right now. I didnt get gassy moos yet. Or gas grass. But for the sake of your argument, you just claim that there are many frequent crashes because two already made you unable to play yet others still continue. I still have yet to have the game crash because of wrangling and again, no bug report. Now don't you dare to tell me that you were using a mod. So? I mentioned them to show that it is not simply crashes, but also other factors. I am sure other players will have more to add to the list. And it goes without saying that klei has to make some kind of triage to select bugs to hotfix and bugs to fix in the next preview. My OP is stating that the current triage is far from optimal. For one you rave that it is all about crashes and hotfixes but since you do not know many, you just use some filler, huh? You just claim that the current method is far from optimal because it inconveniences you, yet below you tell someone to do the tedious task. 3 weeks is a long time. It should be possible to release a hotfix at least every week. And it was so in the past (even more frequent actually). Turning this into a philosophical discussion about the value of time and impatience doesnt do you any favor. If you want shortlived society, turn off your cell phone and your computer. Go into the woods and wait for the teklanika river to freeze over. I live at my pace, thank you for your redundant and utterly foolish advice. Seriously, you begin with claim that 6 or even just 3 weeks is a long time and you allow no one to claim differently because your fee-fees > other's opinion&perhaps even reality. My point is. The crashes are there. They have to be fixed. They are most likely fixed already. Now someone has to do the tedious task of merging them into the live branch. It is not a nice task, but it is doable. And delaying hotfixes for 6 weeks is sure a good indication that a merge would be a better choice. No, your point also is that there are other bugs, forgot about that? Also, at this point you are basically just asking for the one hotfix that makes rocketry possible since it is unknown that wrangling has been fixed or that it even exists. ~desu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blash365 Posted November 17, 2018 Author Share Posted November 17, 2018 You dont necessarily need a bug report, if you report the crash directly with stack trace and savegame from the crash screen. Things like that are usually null pointer or other programming bugs, that are more or less easy to track down when you have the error code at hand. Of course it is nice to have context. But the bug report section has its main value when it comes to bugs that are hard to reproduce and might even need some discussion on whether it was designed correctly (e.g. pw -> water conversion losing energy due to different heat capacity). And there are more than 2 crashes and significant bugs regarding rockets and wrangling. crash when pilot is replaced crash when cm is deconstructed crash when rocket starts crash when rocket lands random crash, when the game feels like it rocket lifts off, but leaves modules behind rocket lands and only consists of cm fuel tank does not limit capacity for manual delivery fuel tank drops content when being inspected the list goes on. But it is far more than "2 easy to avoid things". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trego Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 3 hours ago, SakuraKoi said: If that's your counterargument then I have nothing more to add What a wasteland of broken promises and shattered dreams you thusly created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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