ChickenMadness Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Been doing loads of tests for morb and puft builds for the past few days. According to the numbers given in-game it should take 24 Pufts to keep an algae distiller running permanently. But it's not even close. You need atleast 80, assuming they have the full amount of gas they need each cycle. Algae distiller needs 600g/s of slime... So 80 Pufts create 600g/s Some things I've noticed: Size of the room doesn't matter. You can have 80 pufts in a 6x6 room and you get the same result in a large room. Only determining factor is how much gas is in the room. (room needs to be open with a water airlock to stop them escaping and avoid "overcramped") The amount of slime a single Puft produces varies wildly from cycle to cycle. Which is why so many Pufts are needed to average out at 600g/s of slime (the amount an algae distiller uses. I kept 1 algae distiller running permanently for about 20 cycles with this design and a 2:1 morb : puft ratio. 160 morbs, 80 pufts. However after 20 cycles The pufts ended up slowly consuming more gas than the morbs were producing creating a vacuum in their room. And this ended up completely halting slime production as all of the pufts were fighting each other to take in the gas from the morbs as soon as it spawned. And Adding in more morbs created diminishing returns as there was another factor limiting PO2 production. Not sure 100% sure what it is. At this point the tiles that the morbs are on are always in vacuum apart from the small window of time where a single morb emits PO2. Immediately after it's sucked down and replaced by vacuum. I feel like there is a lot of inconsistency even when testing the exact same design twice. I tested another farm with the same design shape but much smaller. PO2 production was even more inefficient. I think having multiple morbs on the same tile limits PO2 production because if 2 morbs are about to emit PO2 at the same time they will cancel each other out. The more morbs you have the bigger the room has to be, so that the gas spreads out quickly and morbs aren't overlapping when they emit PO2. I did some tests with just Pufts on their own in 999999kg gas pressure in different sized rooms with different numbers. And ended up needing 80-90 Pufts needed to keep the algae distiller running permanently. In my morb farm the gas pressure was averaging out at 500g across the 2 rooms while the algae distiller was permanently running. So gas pressure doesn't make a difference as long as it isn't so low that the pufts are missing out. Pic of some of the test rooms. I tested alot more designs and room sizes than this but I was deleting them and building new ones each time. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
suicide commando Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Ugh.. soo many critters.. makes me think that getting algae and/or slime from space is easier Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Guess the real question is how much algea you need? If oxygen is your goal then wouldn't deodorizers work better than puft slime/distillers? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenMadness Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 Just now, suicide commando said: Ugh.. soo many critters.. makes me think that getting algae and/or slime from space is easier Probably lol. I'm just curious what the limits are to Morbs and Puft farming is really. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
suicide commando Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, Neotuck said: Guess the real question is how much algea you need? If oxygen is your goal then wouldn't deodorizers work better than puft slime/distillers? I'd rather feed the algae to my pacu's. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 I find puft ranching is better suited with dustcap farming than algea distillers Just now, suicide commando said: I'd rather feed the algae to my pacu's. No way you can produce enough algea to keep up with a ranch of pacus Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulwind Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Honestly the only real use I have for the distiller is to make polluted water before I get petrol generators running. I kind of wish they hadn't fixed the "contaminate clean water by running it through polluted water" exploit. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
suicide commando Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, Neotuck said: I find puft ranching is better suited with dustcap farming than algea distillers No way you can produce enough algea to keep up with a ranch of pacus Completely right.. but dusk caps are a crappy food, I'd rather feed my dupes Stuffed berries. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenMadness Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 13 minutes ago, Neotuck said: Guess the real question is how much algea you need? If oxygen is your goal then wouldn't deodorizers work better than puft slime/distillers? I'm using an algae distiller as an easy way to measure slime production. Because it's 600g/s so if I can keep it running permanently I know X number of Pufts create 600g/s of slime. Now We know the real slime production rate of a puft by dividing from 80 Pufts 600g/s of slime. Yesterday I was just seeing if it was possible to power an electroliser permantly with only pufts and algae distillers. As it would be an unlimited source of hydrogen for free. It's possible with 2 permantly running distillers and 8 dupes using toilets + water sieve loop. But ye, it's probably not possible in a normal game without lagging. Also quite pointless lol. I just wasnted to see if i could get a self sustaining base with no outside resource input. But with 40 Pufts which is a reasonable number for a normal game you could get around 20% of running time on an electroliser after the polluted water goes through a siev. It's all free resources as well. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Just now, suicide commando said: Completely right.. but dusk caps are a crappy food, I'd rather feed my dupes Stuffed berries. Agreed, dustcaps are best for mid game before setting up a reliable cooled water source. And there is more than enough slime on the map for that. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
suicide commando Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 By the way, any idea what to do with a few million liters of pH2O? my current map has 3 slush geyser ( 2 which I tapped, the third, 've left closed ) an infected polluted water vent, a regular water vent and 2 steam geysers( only using one actually atm the other is isolated but unused ) The big aquarium / pH2O tank I have in my base has been expanded a couple of times now, and is slowly closing in on the oil biome perimeter. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenMadness Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 13 minutes ago, Neotuck said: I find puft ranching is better suited with dustcap farming than algea distillers No way you can produce enough algea to keep up with a ranch of pacus Well Pacus only need to be fed once to get them to breed, then don't require feeding once you have the desired number. 2 minutes ago, suicide commando said: By the way, any idea what to do with a few million liters of pH2O? my current map has 3 slush geyser ( 2 which I tapped, the third, 've left closed ) an infected polluted water vent, a regular water vent and 2 steam geysers( only using one actually atm the other is isolated but unused ) The big aquarium / pH2O tank I have in my base has been expanded a couple of times now, and is slowly closing in on the oil biome perimeter. I would run it all through water sievs, then electrolisers. Start collecting the hydrogen. Only way to get it is from electrolisers (or a vent) It's also the easiest gas to get rid of since it will just float up to space. And it can all be self powered with SPOMs if you're just trying to get rid of it all. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
goboking Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 15 minutes ago, Neotuck said: Guess the real question is how much algea you need? Enough to actually feed a pacu or three the amount of algae the game tells me they need. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
suicide commando Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Already doing that.. and I have 9 electrolysers running, 4 in SPOM configuration, 5 straight up electrolysis into LOX and Hydrogen. I also have about 20 tons of hydrogen already stored up, so moooore than enough for a lot of space missions. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iluinrandir Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Tame pufts create more slime.....just to let you know Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenMadness Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 9 minutes ago, suicide commando said: Already doing that.. and I have 9 electrolysers running, 4 in SPOM configuration, 5 straight up electrolysis into LOX and Hydrogen. I also have about 20 tons of hydrogen already stored up, so moooore than enough for a lot of space missions. I'd probably just start shooting it off into space to get rid of it lmao. or make an industrial sized gulp fish farm to get some free ice and cold clean water. Like this but much bigger. 5 minutes ago, Iluinrandir said: Tame pufts create more slime.....just to let you know are you sure? I was looking on the wiki but couldn't find any mention of it. On the wiki it says tame animals create 16 eggs per lifetime vs 1 egg per lifetime (wild animals) I didn't want to waste loads of time training dupes up to get tame pufts if it wasn't necessary. You can't spawn in tame critters on sandbox mode. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110748 Share on other sites More sharing options...
suicide commando Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 That's what I built, except 5 times as wide, and 4 times as tall. And there's pacu swimming in there, I am actuall considering to feed them again, to increase their numbers so I get more lime, not that I really need it anymore in large amounts, as I've finished the roof over my head, as well as having 2 rockets, with silos and plenty of left over to for 'fun' projects like the thermal annihilator and such. My map really has sooo much water sources.. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iluinrandir Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Quote are you sure? I was looking on the wiki but couldn't find any mention of it. On the wiki it says tame animals create 16 eggs per lifetime vs 1 egg per lifetime (wild animals) Yeah I am sure. Tested it for this: One dupe living forever without external geysirs. Also you want morbs to be in somewhat 500g of PO2 and having 7 tiles of walk distance. Pufts on the other hand should be in a room with Overpressurized PO2. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 42 minutes ago, Neotuck said: Guess the real question is how much algea you need? If oxygen is your goal then wouldn't deodorizers work better than puft slime/distillers? Pacu egg farming is the only real use for algae beyond the very early stages of the game so I'm guessing that would be the use. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenMadness Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, Iluinrandir said: Yeah I am sure. Tested it for this: One dupe living forever without external geysirs. Also you want morbs to be in somewhat 500g of PO2 and having 7 tiles of walk distance. Pufts on the other hand should be in a room with Overpressurized PO2. Do you know the exact difference between the two? I'll probably end up testing it myself tomorrow though with the algae distiller. Might be viable in a normal game after all. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iluinrandir Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, ChickenMadness said: Do you know the exact difference between the two? No. Was just seeing that I wasn't getting the amount of slime I was expecting from tamed ones and just assumed I had to tame the pufts. After taming I saw a massiv increase in slime production just a bit lower than I was expecting from the wiki values. Another tip: If you dont want to use Morbs for PO2 production you can also use raw eggs Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clickrush Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 8 minutes ago, suicide commando said: That's what I built, except 5 times as wide, and 4 times as tall. And there's pacu swimming in there, I am actuall considering to feed them again, to increase their numbers so I get more lime, not that I really need it anymore in large amounts, as I've finished the roof over my head, as well as having 2 rockets, with silos and plenty of left over to for 'fun' projects like the thermal annihilator and such. My map really has sooo much water sources.. Iam testing pacu ranching in my current run to produce a higher amount of lime. Iam using distillers since I don't need the slime for mushrooms. I'am somewhat pleased so far since my steel production is noticeably higher but its not amazing. Just the dupe time you have to spend to continously dig and transport algae/slime is quite high since pacu really consume alot of that stuff. Another benefit of distillers is that they produce quite alot of water right next to your base, which is a nice way to buffer your consumption before you melted some ice biomes. I wish that pufts had a much higher throughput, since I assume adding a serious puft ranch would murder the game's performance, but it would be a nice way to keep a steady pacu egg production. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenMadness Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, clickrush said: Iam testing pacu ranching in my current run to produce a higher amount of lime. Iam using distillers since I don't need the slime for mushrooms. I'am somewhat pleased so far since my steel production is noticeably higher but its not amazing. Just the dupe time you have to spend to continously dig and transport algae/slime is quite high since pacu really consume alot of that stuff. Another benefit of distillers is that they produce quite alot of water right next to your base, which is a nice way to buffer your consumption before you melted some ice biomes. I wish that pufts had a much higher throughput, since I assume adding a serious puft ranch would murder the game's performance, but it would be a nice way to keep a steady pacu egg production. It's just been mentioned that tamed pufts produce way more slime in the above comment so you can probably still try it. I was spawning in wild pufts in sandbox. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clickrush Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Just now, ChickenMadness said: It's just been mentioned that tamed pufts produce way more slime in the above comment so you can probably still try it. I was spawning in wild pufts in sandbox. I know but still. If you do the math based on @R9MX4's data you need an absolutely ridiculous puft to pacu ratio even if tamed. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 10 minutes ago, ChickenMadness said: It's just been mentioned that tamed pufts produce way more slime in the above comment so you can probably still try it. I was spawning in wild pufts in sandbox. If you use tame pufts you need 24 of them per algae distiller. That means 3 full ranches with 8 in each. And you need 1.1667 algae distillers per pacu. So to feed 16 dupes with omelettes from pacu egg farms you'd need 240 pufts. And God knows how many morbs to feed the pufts. Probably easier just to ship in algae and slime from space at that point. You can always check this thread to see exactly how critter perform. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98099-80-pufts-needed-for-1-algae-distiller/#findComment-1110787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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