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Space Industry Late Game Discussion


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So I tried to open a discussion in the feedback forums about space industry and the molecular forge but either this topic isn't as interesting as I thought or it just isn't the right place to do so (most of the topics involve "wouldn't this be great" kind of ideas in contrary to actual criticism/feedback).

I kind of like the late game we have now but kind of also don't. In short: Allthough I like at least the direction in which this upgrade has brought rocketry and the lategame in general through requiring more and more advanced tech/builds such as hydrogen condensators and more complex automation challenges than usual, I think specifically the molecular forge is kind of taking away alot of potential by being a simplistic building that just converts super materials on click. I think it would be much more interesting if obtaining those materials would be at least as open and challenging as let's say a natural gas boiler.

I mean Klei could really go bat**** crazy on this one and give the most ridiculous restrictions for converting these materials. I'am talking multiple stages, temperature differences/requirements, random appearances of events/outputs/temperatures so your system has to observe and react, hard to contain hazards, enormous power requirements, maybe even processes that require multiple cycles (as long as the throughput is right) etc.This could be hard coupled with rocketry itself but doesn't have to. Instead of the dull timesink we have now we could then obtain these things based on problem solving and optimisations.

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I feel The molecular Forge is ab absolute necessity now that abyssalite building blocks were deleted.

Before:

We could build oil to gas boilers, now we can dream on building them but can again after space + exotic Mats.

Now:

We can go to space to get The materials, then use Said materials to Make gadgets to go to space (LOX, liquid h2). But making LOX & lh2 are simplistic things after supercoolant and Steam generator heat deletion was made easier.

***

Bottom line is before rocketry I was boiling natgas by cycle 75, after space industry I am making all magic boxes & no creative builds.

Abyssalite availability + sour gas change make me very much doubt anyone Will bother actually with these things.

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14 minutes ago, Carnis said:

I feel The molecular Forge is ab absolute necessity now that abyssalite building blocks were deleted.

Before:

We could build oil to gas boilers, now we can dream on building them but can again after space + exotic Mats.

Now:

We can go to space to get The materials, then use Said materials to Make gadgets to go to space (LOX, liquid h2). But making LOX & lh2 are simplistic things after supercoolant and Steam generator heat deletion was made easier.

***

Bottom line is before rocketry I was boiling natgas by cycle 75, after space industry I am making all magic boxes & no creative builds.

Abyssalite availability + sour gas change make me very much doubt anyone Will bother actually with these things.

I'am pretty sure you can build one with a combination of doubly layered insulated ceramic tiles and vacuum isolation. The main problem is the pipes but I think you can build one with some smart arrangement. I will definitely build one in my new base which is still young, just over 100 cycles and I rather protect the surface first, will post when It's done.

However I think we agree on the point of the molecular forge not bringing the right challenges that it should.

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well I did feel like the abyssalite was going to get a nerf somehow

before when ceramic was added to the game most of us were thinking "what's the point?" when mining abyssalite was a lot easier than crafting ceramic

now abyssalite is no longer a building material allowing more creative builds using ceramic before we start space industry for insulation 

kinda feels more balanced now

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I am very much ok with the molecular forge. It is such late game. Basically the game is giving you something sweat to build complex machinations. I think that's what endgame should be all about: congratulations, you effectively had to beat, control and conquer the game to get to this point. Here are some sick materials to go crazy with.

The materials you get with the forge don't do much on their own (except maybe dirt). You still need to apply them in complex devices to make the most out of them. Plus you still need to get them from space, with such a monumental task on its own just getting to that point. The materials provided are merely enablers for your own imagination and creativity.

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11 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

well I did feel like the abyssalite was going to get a nerf somehow

before when ceramic was added to the game most of us were thinking "what's the point?" when mining abyssalite was a lot easier than crafting ceramic

now abyssalite is no longer a building material allowing more creative builds using ceramic before we start space industry for insulation 

kinda feels more balanced now

I fully agree with this. The change to abyssalite and the addition of ceramic made the game more interesting, slightly at least. But the issue I have lies strictly in the late game as explained above. I feel like obtaining the best materials should be more challenging and fun than just putting down a building and clicking on things that you have to wait many cycles to get.

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Just now, clickrush said:

I fully agree with this. The change to abyssalite and the addition of ceramic made the game more interesting, slightly at least. But the issue I have lies strictly in the late game as explained above. I feel like obtaining the best materials should be more challenging and fun than just putting down a building and clicking on things that you have to wait many cycles to get.

I agree, like producing Steel is a fun and challenging experience and you feel a sense of accomplishment once you can produce it on an industrial scale

Compared to that Niobium and Thermium seem too easy by comparison 

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1 hour ago, blash365 said:

Maybe the efficiency in which you can convert materials should scale with a more advanced production flow.

That is a neat idea, so basically Oil Refinery vs. Petroleum/Nat Gas boiler. Give us the option to do a self designed build that much more complex but also has a significantly higher conversion rate while still having the simple but less efficient solution for players who don't want to bother.

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The molecular forge feels just like a crafting station. No special requirements outside the rare minerals. It does it`s job as a simple final tier machine it`s just not interesting. Personally i think it should need cooling similar to like the smelter is cooled and maybe it should have a byproduct that causes trouble.

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7 hours ago, clickrush said:

"So I tried to open a discussion in the feedback forums about space industry and the molecular forge but either this topic isn't as interesting as I thought or it just isn't the right place to do so..." 

Nothing was wrong with your other thread (I read it before popping in to this thread) , the problem is that the games player base + forum user participation of the game is limited. I call posts from other users on the same topic, over certain time periods..."A classic request". if some opens a thread about your past requests, ideas or complaints - Perhaps dig out your past thread and link it :)

BTW we need insulated doors, a classic request :D

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7 hours ago, Carnis said:

I feel The molecular Forge is ab absolute necessity now that abyssalite building blocks were deleted.

Before:

We could build oil to gas boilers, now we can dream on building them but can again after space + exotic Mats.

Now:

We can go to space to get The materials, then use Said materials to Make gadgets to go to space (LOX, liquid h2). But making LOX & lh2 are simplistic things after supercoolant and Steam generator heat deletion was made easier.

***

Bottom line is before rocketry I was boiling natgas by cycle 75, after space industry I am making all magic boxes & no creative builds.

Abyssalite availability + sour gas change make me very much doubt anyone Will bother actually with these things.

What the heck is everyone's problem with the changes to Abyssalite?  Honestly, it hasn't changed anything.  It was originally allowed as a building material during the thermal update a long while back because insulators of any kind didn't work back then, and the way that thermal transfers happened made it a necessity.  Several updates ago, the thermal transfer mechanics were drastically altered from that original state.  Now, for early stages in the game, insulated sandstone works acceptably.   When you really need to isolate something mid-game, ceramic does just fine.  When you're working with magma late game, THEN you might want abyssalite -- but it isn't a necessity.

I have a feeling that steam generators are going to change at some point, since they do indeed remove a ridiculous amount of thermal energy, but currently they're taking care of the "what do we do with all this heat" problem.

The nat gas change makes a lot of sense.  Before it was completely broken.  Now it is still quite possible to convert crude to nat gas, and it still ends up being water positive if you skip the refinery -- it just isn't quite as easy as it was before. 

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