Winnie

[TurtleKitty]

I know we already have many characters, with more coming, but Winnie has been an excellent unimplemented concept character. Her vegetarian characteristic and gentle persona would make an interesting challenge character. Especially if she ended up with better crop-related abilities or crafts {super farm / apiary / great fertilizer} and unique food recipes {veggieballs / honeyed carrots / pot pie / "jerky" veggie chips}, or critter connection. 

"Wigfrid and Wilba already got her design! She isn't original enough anymore!" - Characters can be visually similar and still independent. Besides, it might be interesting to tie her to Wigfrid, with which a parallel is already apparent. 

"DST play without eating meat would suck! I would never play Winnie!" - Every playstyle is different. So just because you don't like her playstyle doesn't mean others won't want to play as her specifically for the challenge you despise. 

"This is just vegan bull trying to ruin our game!" - No, it represents one single character who doesn't eat meat. Nowhere is it said she berates those who do. There are many good vegan people in the world. Some may play DST. Some may feel a special representation in Winnie. I'm not vegetarian myself, but I know why others are - religion, health, personal empathy. And there is a difference between vegetarians and vegans - as a vegetarian she wouldn't eat meat, like a vegan, but she would consume milk, honey, possibly even eggs. 

"Wes is already the challenge character!" - Every character has a unique challenge level, usually opinionated and based on what playstyle a person prefers to use. Her existence doesn't threaten Wes in any way. She might not even be a challenge character, she could be a middlego or a top tier. 

"Wickerbottom already has crop magic! And Warly has his own recipes!" - Winnie wouldn't have Wickerbottom's book or Warly's recipes. Her abilities and crafts would be her own. She would be played very differently than they are. And there is no limit on how many characters can have a certain leaning. For fighting, farming, or building. 

"Giving her amazing crop structures or critter de-aggro powers is OP!" - Just suggestions, not absolutes. And it would be up to Klei to balance it. Making structures more expensive or altering her stat range. For her critter connection it isn't  so much reduced aggro as it is having bees, bunnies, and birds be more comfy around her than other characters - not in the vein of pacifying spiders, hounds, or killer bees. 

"Winnie is already in a mod! Just download that and be happy! Or make your own mod!" - Key word is Mod. As in, not official. I'm not a big fan of the mod, which I hoped I would be due to Winnie, but it isn't a mod I want to use. And making a mod isn't simple, especially with game updates and code changes. I have neither code skills nor commission money to do Winnie justice in the game. And that is what I want. That is what I feel she deserves. 


"But I want Wortox / Waverly / Wilton / Wallace / Watricia!" - Winnie being added doesn't mean they won't. In fact, hype generated for one concept character could bring the other ones to full creation sooner. I love those concepts too, I'd be thrilled if they released, even if before Winnie did. I'm just stating that I want Winnie for Don't Starve Together eventually and hope others feel the same. 

GenomeSquirrel: "I don’t think she adds anything interesting to the table. Wigfrid is interesting because meat sources are dynamic and fight back. Cacti are the best plants can do, ignoring lureplant which doesn’t drop veggies anyhow. And then there’s winter …" - Interest is always subjective. Winnie would be a perfect opportunity for plant-based mobs and/or winter crops.
          "Bunnymen can be considered a plant mob; but the problem with inventing a mob for Winnie to kill is that a vegan wouldn’t want to eat anything cognitive enough to try kill them. Personally I’d scrap her model, keep the vegan aspect and add cave hermit to it." - Bunnymen are bunnies, not plants. I see the point with thinking-feeling plants, however there are opportunities for plants to be dangerous and violent without it being more than a base defense, like with many real life plants. Winnie herself is the aspect that I love the most, her character is fluid and changeable but she is the solid base with which I based my concept on. 

Fill-Lips: "When does being a sheperd mean being vegetarian? Wasn't her original concept aiming for what wigfrid does now, herd beefalo for meat production? Also, I would rather have reworks first then new characters, winona is lacking... playstyle personality." - Winnie can be a non-vegetarian shepherd as well as a vegetarian one. I would prefer the unique style of a vegetarian shepherd, but if Klei makes her a meat eater they have final say. And there isn't any reason Klei couldn't both rework old characters and add new ones, or prioritize one over the other. I'm not saying Winnie should be Priority #1 with Klei, I'm saying she has amazing potential and I'd like to express desire to see her come to the game. Much like how other characters like Webber were wanted, and no doubt someone stated they'd prefer reworks to having Webber. And Klei eventually did both. 

Zeklo and ModsterMash pointed out that the vegetarian aspect was once on the unimplemented page but has no substantiated source, so may have only been a product of the Up and Away mod that used her files to fill in their content. There is little canonical information of Winnie in any fashion. 

pedregales: "New recipes that everybody can make, but that she gets the most benefit for being a vegetarian would be nice; but overall I believe it might be better to buff many of the already exisitng veggie recipes." - Both excellent points and distinct possibilities. It would be far better to let all characters access the recipes. The buffing of previous food items might cause a stir but would also help Winnie's survival without the need to code and implement dozens more things to the game. 

ShadowDuelist: "If we ever get a character like this I suppose she wont be called "Winnie", being short for Winona. I think the name's original idea, finally evolved and got implemented as Winona." - Winnie is also short for "Winnifred", and considered a full name. Many people have similar names. And it could present an opportunity for a quote from Winona that she liked or hated being nicknamed "Winnie". {Edited Answer as she canonically and jovially references herself with the nickname "Winnie"}

Zeklo and IvoCZE have put forward that Winona canonically references herself with the nickname "Winnie" for her Gorge culinary skin. Which means either character quotes revolving around her name being a nickname for Winona or perhaps relegating Winnie to instead be called "Winnifred" for a more distinct separation of characters. Though with Wilbur and Wilba having close names, having her remain mainly known as Winnie wouldn't be a hard stretch. 

Lumina: "Since she is a sheperd, i would say stuff like being able to milk goat, ability to shave beefalo when they are awake, this kind of thing. You can give her a penalty when killing animals, if you want to show her bond to nature, it will still be possible to kill some and eat meat (that is logical for a sheperd), but you can this way show that she dislike the process itself, and encourage her to let other players do it." - That would be a good way to balance it, such as sanity decrease. 

[Fill-Lips]

25 minutes ago, TurtleKitty said:

I know we already have many characters, with more coming, but Winnie has been an excellent unimplemented concept character. Her vegetarian characteristic and gentle persona would make an interesting challenge character.

When does being a sheperd mean being vegetarian? Wasn't her original concept aiming for what wigfrid does now, herd beefalo for meat production?

Also, I would rather have reworks first then new characters, winona is lacking... playstyle personality.

[TurtleKitty]

1 minute ago, Fill-Lips said:

When does being a sheperd mean being vegetarian? Wasn't her original concept aiming for what wigfrid does now, herd beefalo for meat production?

Also, I would rather have reworks first then new characters, winona is lacking... playstyle personality.

I was under the impression she was a vegetarian, keeping animals for wool and milk rather than meat. There are many vegetarian shepherds. Do you have a source saying she isn't from Klei? If she isn't vegetarian, I wouldn't really mind. It would just be a good backstory and way to differentiate her playstyle. If she is a meat-shepherd, then her focus would definitely be on animal connections and perhaps more frequent drops. 

Winona has plenty personality, though I certainly wouldn't object to buffs or improvement. And maybe Klei should work on existing characters first. I'm willing to wait if that is the priority. 

[GenomeSquirrel]

I don’t think she adds anything interesting to the table. Wigfrid is interesting because meat sources are dynamic and fight back. Cacti are the best plants can do, ignoring lureplant which doesn’t drop veggies anyhow.

And then there’s winter ...

[Fill-Lips]

3 minutes ago, TurtleKitty said:

I was under the impression she was a vegetarian, keeping animals for wool and milk rather than meat. There are many vegetarian shepherds. Do you have a source saying she isn't from Klei? If she isn't vegetarian, I wouldn't really mind. It would just be a good backstory and way to differentiate her playstyle. If she is a meat-shepherd, then her focus would definitely be on animal connections and perhaps more frequent drops. 

No, I don't have a source, but there isn't one for being a vegetarian either...

Either way, I would rather have the reworks before new characters.

[TurtleKitty]

17 minutes ago, Fill-Lips said:

No, I don't have a source, but there isn't one for being a vegetarian either...

Either way, I would rather have the reworks before new characters.

I quite literally stated in my previous comment I was fine with reworking the old characters. If you don't like the Winnie concept, particularly the one I painted the possibility of, why are you in a Pro-Winnie topic meant to focus on and discuss implementing her? 

25 minutes ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

I don’t think she adds anything interesting to the table. Wigfrid is interesting because meat sources are dynamic and fight back. Cacti are the best plants can do, ignoring lureplant which doesn’t drop veggies anyhow.

And then there’s winter …

Those are good points. This could be a form of difficulty setting or it would make perfect opportunities to have more plant-based enemies and crops that require winter to properly grow. 

45 minutes ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

I don’t think she adds anything interesting to the table. Wigfrid is interesting because meat sources are dynamic and fight back. Cacti are the best plants can do, ignoring lureplant which doesn’t drop veggies anyhow.

And then there’s winter ...

Do you have any concept ideas for viable plant mobs?

[ModsterMash]

The Winnie concept was part of a popular mod called "Up and Away". For a while, the concept was a piece of trivia on the wiki page for unimplemented characters, but was removed due to not being official (related edit - see summary).

[Zeklo]

13 minutes ago, ModsterMash said:

The Winnie concept was part of a popular mod called "Up and Away". For a while, the concept was a piece of trivia on the wiki page for unimplemented characters, but was removed due to not being official (related edit - see summary).

That's not accurate. Winnie was unused game files that Up and Away picked and used as content. Even now there are Winnie mods on the workshop simply because their art & voice was left for anyone to grab.

[ModsterMash]

1 hour ago, Zeklo said:

That's not accurate. Winnie was unused game files that Up and Away picked and used as content. Even now there are Winnie mods on the workshop simply because their art & voice was left for anyone to grab.

Sorry if I was unclear. Winnie has always been an unimplemented character in the files, but the idea of her being a vegetarian may have been originally fanmade because so far I have not found an official source confirming it. I'm still researching, the info in my previous post is all there is right now.

I did just check when that trivia was added. It was added on March 11, 2014, sometime after Wigfrid was revealed. Still trying to pin down where this particular info came from.

[TurtleKitty]

48 minutes ago, ModsterMash said:

The Winnie concept was part of a popular mod called "Up and Away". For a while, the concept was a piece of trivia on the wiki page for unimplemented characters, but was removed due to not being official (related edit - see summary).

 

6 minutes ago, ModsterMash said:

Sorry if I was unclear. Winnie has always been an unimplemented character in the files, but the idea of her being a vegetarian may have been originally fanmade because so far I have not found an official source confirming it. I'm still researching, the info in my previous post is all there is right now.

I did just check when that trivia was added. It was added on March 11, 2014, sometime after Wigfrid was revealed. Still trying to pin down where this particular info came from.

Perhaps that is why I thought she was a vegetarian. And the "Up and Away" mod is the one I somewhat dislike. If you ever find canon information on Winnie I'd love to hear it, regardless of direction.

Is there a part of Winnie you like? A characterization you'd prefer for her if she was implemented? 

39 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

That's not accurate. Winnie was unused game files that Up and Away picked and used as content. Even now there are Winnie mods on the workshop simply because their art & voice was left for anyone to grab.

Do you know of any decent mods on the workshop? It may be me being picky but I haven't found a liking to the few I've seen. 

[ModsterMash]

1 hour ago, TurtleKitty said:

Perhaps that is why I thought she was a vegetarian. And the "Up and Away" mod is the one I somewhat dislike. If you ever find canon information on Winnie I'd love to hear it, regardless of direction.

I will try my best to find out more and will keep you posted if I do. I'm really interested in digging up old info on all the other unimplemented characters, too.

1 hour ago, TurtleKitty said:

Is there a part of Winnie you like? A characterization you'd prefer for her if she was implemented?

I rather like the shepherd idea. I'm a big softie, so a character who can have animal buddies you don't need to kill appeals to me. ^u^

[TurtleKitty]

Thanks. Have a good time looking at the concepts, they're filled with potential. 

That appeals to me too. Especially considering the new content that could be put in with her - new taming options, critters, crops, mobs, recipes, she's an opportunity waiting to shine. 

What other concepts have you found to like?

[evantropia]

No

[GenomeSquirrel]

1 hour ago, TurtleKitty said:

Do you have any concept ideas for viable plant mobs?

Bunnymen can be considered a plant mob; but the problem with inventing a mob for Winnie to kill is that a vegan wouldn’t want to eat anything cognitive enough to try kill them.

Personally I’d scrap her model, keep the vegan aspect and add cave hermit to it.

[TurtleKitty]

27 minutes ago, Corazon said:

No

Do you have anything constructive to add, like how she could be made better, or . . .?

25 minutes ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

Bunnymen can be considered a plant mob; but the problem with inventing a mob for Winnie to kill is that a vegan wouldn’t want to eat anything cognitive enough to try kill them.

Personally I’d scrap her model, keep the vegan aspect and add cave hermit to it.

Bunnymen are by essence not plant mobs, they're just violent vegetarian bunnies in the underground. 
A Plant mob wouldn't be cognitive, it would be a feral plant. Like fruit trees with higher tree guard percentages, cacti that move around and attack before replanting to better soil areas, fruiting flowers that puff poisonous pollen, or veggie patches with violently protective vines. 

The model is one of the reasons I like Winnie. The vegetarian aspect is more or less optional for me, just a best-case design choice by my opinion. I wouldn't mind a cave hermit character, especially considering how good cave basing is. Is it that you dislike the character model or just don't see her as vegetarian? 

 

[GenomeSquirrel]

Honestly the model makes her look like a baby or toddler, it’s not ugly, but the overall impression is someone who can’t keep themselves alive.

[ShadowDuelist]

If we ever get a character like this I suppose she wont be called "Winnie", being short for Winona. I think the name's original idea, finally evolved and got implemented as Winona. 

[pedregales]

Eh. She would have to receive a slight re-design or be stated to be family of Wigfrid (still would prefer a small re-design, because she looks kinda weird, dunno why). The 2 characters are too much alike.

The vegetarian diet is interesting and truly a challenge, but sadly is also boring and unconveniently frustrating. There are barely any mobs you can kill that drop veggies (or veggie like stuff): lureplant, grass gecko, and bunnymen; and those are all I know (you could count bees for honey, I guess; in Hamlet though there seems to be a few plant monsters though). So most of your food gathering time will be with crops, berries, and mushrooms, and those usually fill very little stomach, and heal pretty much no health or sanity even if cooked (except for mushrooms). Most of the best crock pot recipes are also meat-based (dragon pie being among the exceptions), and very few plant-based recipes can accept meat as a filler (which is not the case for meat recipes). Another problem, and the biggest of them all, is winter, were crops don't grow at all, not even Wickerbottom-magic can work on this one; which would force you to save a lot of crops on a fridge and forage carrots in the ground (if there are any) to survive this season; it might be better to start your worlds in spring so you could prepare for it.

Another thing is that I don't like the idea of character specific crock pot recipes. That is one of the many reasons I don't like Warly. One thing is crafting items that are easily seen on crafting tabs and does not need memorization, and another is crock pot recipes that you have to memorize in order to make (for a crock pot recipe you need to remember the basic components, how much stats it gives consuming it, and also spoil time -optional, but still important-; but also having to remember if a character has access to it? With Warly is "fine" because he is only one). New recipes that everybody can make, but that she gets the most benefit for being a vegetarian would be nice; but overall I believe it might be better to buff many of the already exisitng veggie recipes.

[TurtleKitty]

13 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

If we ever get a character like this I suppose she wont be called "Winnie", being short for Winona. I think the name's original idea, finally evolved and got implemented as Winona. 

Winnie is considered a short for Winnifred too. Character names can be similar. 
 

 

9 minutes ago, pedregales said:

Eh. She would have to receive a slight re-design or be stated to be family of Wigfrid (still would prefer a small re-design, because she looks kinda weird, dunno why). The 2 characters are too much alike.

The vegetarian diet is interesting and truly a challenge, but sadly is also boring and unconveniently frustrating. There are barely any mobs you can kill that drop veggies (or veggie like stuff): lureplant, grass gecko, and bunnymen; and those are all I know (you could count bees for honey, I guess; in Hamlet though there seems to be a few plant monsters though). So most of your food gathering time will be with crops, berries, and mushrooms, and those usually fill very little stomach, and heal pretty much no health or sanity even if cooked (except for mushrooms). Most of the best crock pot recipes are also meat-based (dragon pie being among the exceptions), and very few plant-based recipes can accept meat as a filler (which is not the case for meat recipes). Another problem, and the biggest of them all, is winter, were crops don't grow at all, not even Wickerbottom-magic can work on this one; which would force you to save a lot of crops on a fridge and forage carrots in the ground (if there are any) to survive this season; it might be better to start your worlds in spring so you could prepare for it.

Another thing is that I don't like the idea of character specific crock pot recipes. That is one of the many reasons I don't like Warly. One thing is crafting items that are easily seen on crafting tabs and does not need memorization, and another is crock pot recipes that you have to memorize in order to make (for a crock pot recipe you need to remember the basic components, how much stats it gives consuming it, and also spoil time -optional, but still important-; but also having to remember if a character has access to it? With Warly is "fine" because he is only one). New recipes that everybody can make, but that she gets the most benefit for being a vegetarian would be nice; but overall I believe it might be better to buff many of the already exisitng veggie recipes.

Personally I'd prefer the design be kept. It would be great to have her as Wigfrid's sister or cousin. Perhaps even another persona. 
The addition of new plant mobs and winter crops is already a proposed point for her character. This would also enrich experience for other characters. 
The crock pot recipes don't have to be exclusive to Winnie. And buffing existing veggie recipes is a good idea if balanced well - however I know there will immediately be screeches of the veggie items needing nerfs the moment they do so. 

 

14 hours ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

Honestly the model makes her look like a baby or toddler, it’s not ugly, but the overall impression is someone who can’t keep themselves alive.

That is what I like about her model: the youthful innocence. And I'm sure she's supposed to give the impression of vulnerability. 

[Maxposting]

Many times winona is mentioned by name Winnie so this would make vegan Winona and useless Winnie and/or make both called vegan and useless

[TurtleKitty]

23 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

Many times winona is mentioned by name Winnie so this would make vegan Winona and useless Winnie and/or make both called vegan and useless

That makes no sense on several levels. Exactly what are you trying to say? 

Winnie and Winona can be completely separate characters with similar names, as happens in real life, with absolutely no effect on Winona whatsoever besides perhaps an interesting quote revolving around name similarity. Winona wouldn't become vegan, and Winnie isn't useless if implemented and handled properly no matter what diet restriction she may or may not have. I specified vegetarian, not vegan, and there is a difference. And I have also put the possibility of her not having diet restriction at all and instead be an omnivorous shepherd. 

Where is Winona stated to have been nicknamed Winnie? What gave you the presumption this was in any way a post about modding Winona to be a vegan character?  Have you thoroughly read over the points of the post I made at all or did you skim and jump to conclusion that I was somehow attacking Winona's character? 

[Maxposting]

I am trying to say that Winona is nicknamed Winnie , therefore Winnie ( original ) cannot be named Winnie because the mess...

[TurtleKitty]

2 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

I am trying to say that Winona is nicknamed Winnie , therefore Winnie ( original ) cannot be named Winnie because the mess...

Winnie can, in fact, still be named Winnie despite similarity to Winona's name. There is no legitimate reason they cannot have similar names. This could, as I stated several times before, even be used for a bit of quote fun for their respective examines. And that just IF Winona has that as a nickname. Do you have a canonical source for Winona being nicknamed "Winnie"? Dev comment or quote? 

[Maxposting]

Sorry couldn't find any source but I guess okay...

Spoiler

it still feels very weird

 

[Zeklo]

14 minutes ago, TurtleKitty said:

Winnie can, in fact, still be named Winnie despite similarity to Winona's name. There is no legitimate reason they cannot have similar names. This could, as I stated several times before, even be used for a bit of quote fun for their respective examines. And that just IF Winona has that as a nickname. Do you have a canonical source for Winona being nicknamed "Winnie"? Dev comment or quote? 

Winona actually refers to herself as Winnie in her cook "skin" during the Gorge. The free skin that gives your character an apron.