Door Pumps

[StarSquid]

How exactly are they made? What's the most compact design?

[Kabrute]

filter buffer(door)filter buffer(door)filter buffer(door)not back to start
Filter/Buffer/Not are automation gates, connect doors to the outlet of one buffer and the inlet of the next filter this will create an infinite loop door pump sequence.

[Yoma_Nosme]

Three doors design is afaik the most compact working version

[Soulwind]

I prefer a 4 door setup, but a 3 door works just fine too.  Here's the pump configuration I've eventually settled on for most uses.  Buffers are 5 seconds, the Filter is 15 seconds.

[crypticorb]

9 hours ago, Soulwind said:

I prefer a 4 door setup, but a 3 door works just fine too.  Here's the pump configuration I've eventually settled on for most uses.  Buffers are 5 seconds, the Filter is 15 seconds.

This is a fantastic design. My old setup broke down, and this is an excellent replacement.

3-door setups are less than effective, because with power failures or stopped automation, the doors can let gas/liquid backflow to the source at extremely high pressures. 4-door setups, if properly sequenced as yours is, have the two first doors closed, preventing any possible backflow, even when the sequence is interrupted.

If you dislike the sound of clicking doors, or want to save the 460W of power from constant cycling, use this setup for gas:

Spoiler

 

Vent gas into the bottom vents, which by a minor exploit do not get overpressurized b/c of the >1kg liquid on them. The pump fills the reservoir, which is only there for a visual indicator of how much gas is left. The wheezewort keeps the NG geyser from overheating the pump.

This setup only works for gasses though, no liquids.

[mathmanican]

12 minutes ago, crypticorb said:

This setup only works for gasses though, no liquids.

While the setup you gave only works for gas, you can easily do the same thing with liquids, in reverse.  Just put gas along the top of the room, with liquid vents up there. Then fill the room with whatever liquid you want.  Just make sure you use doors for walls, not tiles, as the doors won't break under high liquid pressure.

[Soulwind]

1 hour ago, crypticorb said:

This is a fantastic design. My old setup broke down, and this is an excellent replacement.

3-door setups are less than effective, because with power failures or stopped automation, the doors can let gas/liquid backflow to the source at extremely high pressures. 4-door setups, if properly sequenced as yours is, have the two first doors closed, preventing any possible backflow, even when the sequence is interrupted.

If you dislike the sound of clicking doors, or want to save the 460W of power from constant cycling, use this setup for gas:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Vent gas into the bottom vents, which by a minor exploit do not get overpressurized b/c of the >1kg liquid on them. The pump fills the reservoir, which is only there for a visual indicator of how much gas is left. The wheezewort keeps the NG geyser from overheating the pump.

This setup only works for gasses though, no liquids.

Thanks.  Went through several iterations to get it the way I wanted, as i try to either completely hide the automation parts or have them fully visible.  I don't like pieces poking out.  

The door clicks and the constant beeps from the automation can get annoying unless you turn it off,  but the doors are unplugged.  No power required, art least not right now.  The slower speed actually helps to prevent any accidental gas deletion. 

[crypticorb]

1 hour ago, mathmanican said:

While the setup you gave only works for gas, you can easily do the same thing with liquids, in reverse.  Just put gas along the top of the room, with liquid vents up there. Then fill the room with whatever liquid you want.  Just make sure you use doors for walls, not tiles, as the doors won't break under high liquid pressure.

I like your idea. I do feel like doors being immune to pressures is a bit too risky, as I believe it will be patched one day, and the exploit can easily go catastrophically wrong.

I used a 4-door liquid compressor back before the Occupational Upgrade, but it failed due to my own accidental error; I had a sweep command that accidentally included trash inside the compressor, and one door left unlocked. Easily 100,000kg worth of hot compressed pH2O flooded the base, and it was game over.

Far more risky than a gas compressor.

[Saturnus]

1 hour ago, crypticorb said:

I like your idea. I do feel like doors being immune to pressures is a bit too risky, as I believe it will be patched one day, and the exploit can easily go catastrophically wrong.

Then use 3 tile thick walls instead. It's not important if it's one or the other. It's a tried tested technique.

1 hour ago, crypticorb said:

Far more risky than a gas compressor.

Well, I don't know. I once had a 200000kg/tile compressed 2000C steam chamber fail due to an deconstruct double-click off screen. You know like when you accidentally set a dig command and don't notice it because it was during the new day autosave?. Yeah, it didn't end well. That was 7 dupes turned into pretty much plasma instantly. 

[crypticorb]

On 9/26/2018 at 11:26 PM, StarSquid said:

How exactly are they made? What's the most compact design?

There are numerous designs, but the basic concept is using buffers, filters, and NOT gates to sequence opening and closing doors to only allow a one-way flow of gasses. A rolling sequence is the optimal design, with the first door closing in sync with the last, to prevent backflow.

I'll showcase two designs below. The most compact for automation alone I've seen is @Soulwind design, a 4-door configuration. Unpowered, all buffers/filter need to be set to 3 seconds, powered settings can be 1 second.

Spoiler

Soulwind 4-door compressor

 

The best 3-door setup I've seen is one designed by @goatt. Not as compact automation, but it's a better design in some ways, as the sequence cannot allow backflow, even under extreme pressures from the compressed side. The image below is part of a steam turbine/steel smelting heat energy recapturing loop, sourced from here. The image has all timing settings set for unpowered, but while powered you can safely set the to 1/3 the settings in the image.

Spoiler

goatt dual 3-door compressor

 

I did some stress tests with extreme pressures, to check for backflow, and some tests for power consumption.

While powered, neither system has any chance of backflow. While unpowered, Soulwinds design breaks sequence sync, so you'll need to bump the unpowered buffer/filter settings up to 3x the powered setting timing to keep it synced.

Finally, the power test results:

Spoiler

 

Soulwind compressor (4-door)
43.8kJ
41.4kJ
40.5kJ

Total Wattage consumption for continuous use: 71.5W

goatt compressor (dual 3-door)
51.8
51.2
52.4
Total Watt consumption for continuous use: 86.3W
Total Watt consumption for one 3-door set: 43.2W

 

As expected, the 3-door setup takes far less power, though please note that the test was for a dual 3-door setup.

Both systems have benefits and drawbacks. I prefer the 3-door setup by @goatt's, even though its automation is far less compact than @Soulwind's design, because of the power consumption.

[Carnis]

@AzeTheGreat made The best 3 door sequence here, theres a 7second pulse clock that initiates the door opening & the sequence defaults to close/vacuum/close blocking heat transfer 100%.

Requires Power, but can Be rescheduled to work unpowered.

 

[StarSquid]

2 hours ago, Carnis said:

@AzeTheGreat made The best 3 door sequence here, theres a 7second pulse clock that initiates the door opening & the sequence defaults to close/vacuum/close blocking heat transfer 100%.

Requires Power, but can Be rescheduled to work unpowered.

 

I also don't know where my game keeps its saves, so I can't take a closer look at it.

[Saturnus]

7 minutes ago, StarSquid said:

I also don't know where my game keeps its saves, so I can't take a closer look at it.

standard is /documents/klei/oxygennotincluded/

[Soulwind]

2 hours ago, crypticorb said:

There are numerous designs, but the basic concept is using buffers, filters, and NOT gates to sequence opening and closing doors to only allow a one-way flow of gasses. A rolling sequence is the optimal design, with the first door closing in sync with the last, to prevent backflow.

I'll showcase two designs below. The most compact for automation alone I've seen is @Soulwind design, a 4-door configuration. Unpowered, all buffers/filter need to be set to 3 seconds, powered settings can be 1 second.

  Hide contents

Soulwind 4-door compressor

 

The best 3-door setup I've seen is one designed by @goatt. Not as compact automation, but it's a better design in some ways, as the sequence cannot allow backflow, even under extreme pressures from the compressed side. The image below is part of a steam turbine/steel smelting heat energy recapturing loop, sourced from here. The image has all timing settings set for unpowered, but while powered you can safely set the to 1/3 the settings in the image.

  Hide contents

goatt dual 3-door compressor

 

I did some stress tests with extreme pressures, to check for backflow, and some tests for power consumption.

While powered, neither system has any chance of backflow. While unpowered, Soulwinds design breaks sequence sync, so you'll need to bump the unpowered buffer/filter settings up to 3x the powered setting timing to keep it synced.

Finally, the power test results:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Soulwind compressor (4-door)
43.8kJ
41.4kJ
40.5kJ

Total Wattage consumption for continuous use: 71.5W

goatt compressor (dual 3-door)
51.8
51.2
52.4
Total Watt consumption for continuous use: 86.3W
Total Watt consumption for one 3-door set: 43.2W

 

As expected, the 3-door setup takes far less power, though please note that the test was for a dual 3-door setup.

Both systems have benefits and drawbacks. I prefer the 3-door setup by @goatt's, even though its automation is far less compact than @Soulwind's design, because of the power consumption.

Yes, I should have noted that unpowered it can have some backflow if you go to really extreme pressures.  For anything under 500 kg/tile I've never seen any appreciable backflow (that gets past the first door).  I mostly use them to ensure that the geysers never over pressure and stop producing., so it works for me without power needs. 

[crypticorb]

4 hours ago, Soulwind said:

Yes, I should have noted that unpowered it can have some backflow if you go to really extreme pressures.  For anything under 500 kg/tile I've never seen any appreciable backflow (that gets past the first door).  I mostly use them to ensure that the geysers never over pressure and stop producing., so it works for me without power needs. 

 

If you try a door compressor with liquid, backflow is an EXTREMELY critical point, when you're dealing with 10,000 to 100,000 kg/m3. It's the difference between some efficiency loss and explosive decompression.

After further testing, both setups failed while doing a lot of alt-tabbing between programs, and saving at dawn, when the game gets a bit laggy. Some gas/fluid slipped by both setups back to the source. Not much, but under extreme pressures it can be bad. It's possible it was just a glitch though.

[AzeTheGreat]

3 hours ago, crypticorb said:

 

If you try a door compressor with liquid, backflow is an EXTREMELY critical point, when you're dealing with 10,000 to 100,000 kg/m3. It's the difference between some efficiency loss and explosive decompression.

After further testing, both setups failed while doing a lot of alt-tabbing between programs, and saving at dawn, when the game gets a bit laggy. Some gas/fluid slipped by both setups back to the source. Not much, but under extreme pressures it can be bad. It's possible it was just a glitch though.

Last time I tested doors were horribly inconsistent when alt tabbed.  Designs needed around 10x as much delay to work properly as they did when the application was focused.  I eventually gave up trying to work around it in any designs.

[mathmanican]

@crypticorb

I've been using the following door pump for all my needs (built it when I made the steam behemoth).  I just tried adding 150,000 kg of water on the back end, tried alt+tabbing, and was hoping to see it break.  It didn't, and nothing leaked to the source. I'd love to have you run it through your same tests, and let me know if it breaks as well.

I have the timers all set on 5 seconds, though I often reduce them to 3 as well, and never power them. Powering would just make all the motion happen faster and probably help prevent slippage as well. If this passes your tests, I'd love to hear it. 

[Saturnus]

I developed a fail safe rolling door automation specifically for high pressure door pumping in a previous post. This is meant to pump magma from the bottom of the map to the top so fail safe operation is an absolute requirement. It's a lot more complex than simple delay state automation that everyone else uses but ultimately it's also completely fail safe.

 

[Nxf7]

6 hours ago, Saturnus said:

It's a lot more complex than simple delay state automation that everyone else uses

I think this automation has the same outcome with less footprint. To match your timing it needs 4s on left buffer+filter and 8s on right buffer, but 3 and 6 seems to work too.

[Saturnus]

Just now, Nxf7 said:

I think this automation has the same outcome with less footprint. To match your timing it needs 4s on left buffer+filter and 8s on right buffer, but 3 and 6 seems to work too.

Not quite. It's still based on delays instead of absolute values. Everything based on delays can fail.

[mathmanican]

If you are going to pressurize gas, then the door pump is a great way to go.  However, if you are going to pressurize liquid, I can't think of a better way than @Saturnus's gas trick pump for liquids.  I tried to find your original design around a geyser (quick search didn't find it), but here is a link to a comment in another thread where he used it to push magma to the surface really fast. 

This bad boy won't ever fail, and no doors are needed at all. 

[Saturnus]

It's this one

 

[mathmanican]

Another nice feature of @Saturnus's build is that you don't have to deal with the constant one/off flicker of the "flooding" warning that occurs when you use a door pump for high pressure liquid.  My eye's aren't constantly drawn to the upper left because of the bouncing on/off signal anymore.  Thanks for this find.