Nerf oil cooking

[Coolthulhu]

As in title.

It makes all other energy sources obsolete.

[Xenologist]

What do you do with the byproducts then? Do you use magma or molten glass?

[NGMZero]

isn't Natural Gas generator the best form of energy generating currently in game? because of how ridiculous renewable-energy current is, and petroleum being renewable in multiple ways and natural gas geysers free NG. 

the game designers put the steam generator and solar panels in a very unattractive position.

volcanic heat is currently limited, magma will eventually cool down if player tap into them. and dealing with heat in general have it own risks if a player isn't careful. if they some how figure away to use the surface heat by moving petroleum all the way up, or moving surface heat all the way down, then they earned their reward. unless there is some exploit i am not aware of. 

[Coolthulhu]

7 minutes ago, NGMZero said:

volcanic heat is currently limited

It's way too limited for """renewable""" energy, but there is enough of it to boil tons of oil, even if all you have is a metal geyser.

Current steam turbine is a cooling device, not an energy generation one.

[NGMZero]

which lead me to believe, whether they nurf petroleum cooking or not, most players will probably consider natural gas as their only large scale power generators option. since every thing else doesn't scale up well.

I think Coal and Hydrogen are fine at how they are used, steam turbines and solar panels need a rework around their large scale maintenance. I know the exploits around the steam turbine terrified them leading to it nurf, instead of fixing the darn exploits. solar panels should be popular if space junks stop being an annoying manual labor after it grind-marathon. 

[Alfons100]

Maybe it is like Polluted Water evaporating, it leaves some sort of byproduct on the ground, a percentage of the mass. 

They did already nerf Nat Gen by making it require 90g instead of 60g. 

But before they do this, they need to buff Solar Panels and oh my, make the Steam Turbine not a literal nightmare to use. There’s like 6 types of exploits you have to use to make use of it.

[Sasza22]

1 hour ago, Alfons100 said:

Maybe it is like Polluted Water evaporating, it leaves some sort of byproduct on the ground, a percentage of the mass.

Some sort of heavy oil fraction like asphalt that is not really useful, maybe can be changed into a construction material later.

[ImpalerWrG]

I think the root cause is that NG per gram has way more energy potential then it logically should vs other Hydrocarbons like coal and Petroleum.  Even after the nerf too it, it would need to go down to 500 g/s to generate 600W and for the boiling of petroleum to turn half the mass into solid coal residue.

[Oozinator]

That makes NG or players, without cookers (only flatulent / fertilizer maker) obsolete.

[ImpalerWrG]

No it makes cooking Petroleum obsolete, because their is no net energy gain from doing so anymore.  Everything else IS a net energy gain, all be it smaller then it was before.

[he77789]

3 hours ago, Oozinator said:

/ fertilizer maker)

HELLO?Ello?ello?llo?o?  Does anyone still use fert makers for ng?

[Oozinator]

11 minutes ago, he77789 said:

HELLO?Ello?ello?llo?o?  Does anyone still use fert makers for ng?

I am not, but the byproduct NG, is nice to use as early emergency but too many bugs in the game.
Before they balance out stuff, they should make it run bugfree.
They should really forget about new content and fix the old stuff and expand it.
Every update a fresh buggy construction site is added..
Nerfing Oil cooking , nerfing this and that, is nerfing creativity in first place for me.
When you get refined coal for cooking, it's again unbalanced at refined coal..


 

[greggbert]

Oil generation is balanced I think.   The heat cost is high and refining it takes a lot of dupe labor.  I personally only use it as a reserve power source, stockpile some petroleum and burn it only when batteries get very low.   It's not anywhere near as "bad" of an exploit as the old days when you had 2 nat gas geysers with constant output.

 

 

[NGMZero]

I disagree to adding game mechanics that denies oil cooking. I lean toward make every thing else more useful. and then worry about how to balance the net power generating all together. 

[Sevio]

No need to deny oil cooking altogether. Fractionating the oil (and later the petroleum) on each phase change is all that's needed to get a process that's still more rewarding than the Oil Refinery but doesn't blow it out of the water by an order of magnitude.

It's already in the game as demonstrated by polluted water evaporating into steam and dirt.

Similarly, crude oil can fractionate into coal and petroleum, petroleum fractionates into coal and natural gas. The ratios between coal/petroleum/natural gas can be adjusted to get the desired energy balance.

Since oil boiling temperatures are too high for coal as it currently is in the game (it will turn into refined carbon), as part of such a change the conversion temperature to refined carbon must be raised or allow the coal generator to burn refined carbon.

[ImpalerWrG]

Having some solid residue coal is already part of the plan I assumed, but given the energy density of NG is so high you would still have a fantastically high energy surplus unless the NG generator gets a nerf.

Also I would boil Petroleum into CO2 and NG, not coal which would be redundant to produce coal twice.

Currently boiling your oil produces 111x times as much NG as refining it, for what one oil refinery consumes you could produce 88,888W of power.  The refinery would power 1 NG generator and 2.5 Petroleum ones for a yield of only 5,800W, a ratio of 15:1

If boiling Crude gave 90% coal and then boiling Petroleum gave 50% NG (for a total yield which is 1/20th of the current) then you would still run 5.555 NG generator for 4,444W plus 9 Coal generators for 5,400W for a total of 9,844.  Still about twice the Refinery potential and that's before accounting for 480W to run the refinery.

NG Generators have to consume more NG, the Refinery and Gysers can and should produce more to compensate but without reducing NG crazy energy density (it's 10% higher then Hydrogen mind you) you cant' fix the issue.

Even assuming all the heat input was electric still leaves us very much energy positive, each gram of crude currently takes 750J to be turned to NG from a typical 100C starting point.  But with the Tepidizers crazy efficiency 1W of power converts to enough heat to boil 5.6 g of crude, but 1g/s NG yields 8.8W so only 2% of the electric output can maintain the boiling process.

[he77789]

On 2018/8/21 at 6:01 PM, Sevio said:

Since oil boiling temperatures are too high for coal as it currently is in the game (it will turn into refined carbon), as part of such a change the conversion temperature to refined carbon must be raised or allow the coal generator to burn refined carbon.

You cook oil to 900C?

[Sevio]

3 hours ago, he77789 said:

You cook oil to 900C?

Coal's ingame "melting point" is 276.9 C, at which point it transitions into refined carbon. That's well below oil cooking temperatures needed to make petroleum or natural gas.