puft Puft and effects of late game performance on it

[Scorpio King]

So I have not tamed a single Puft in current game and got to 1100 cycle, when I started thinking about building a Puft farm, I looked around the map just to find no such creature alive. Sure, I though, its late game, they could just die off. So I spawned one and noticed how it behaves. It gets locked in one spot doing the suck in animation over and over. No slime pooped out, no egg laying. So I did a test with debug and sandbox creature spawner in my current game and fresh world on cycle 1 with room like this:

As you can see the AI or/and Path finding of Puft in late game gets killed, either by performance issues or some other reason.

The Puft in fresh game acted as they supposed to.

This was apparently the reason why every single Puft died on map as well, if they cant lay an egg in stuck animation.

So I'm just wondering who have a working Puft farm in game 1000+ cycles?

[Oozinator]

1 hour ago, Scorpio King said:

So I'm just wondering who have a working Puft farm in game 1000+ cycles?

For me it feels like when FPS drop below 25, things get messy.
When player is at cycle 5000 but playing with 60 FPS, should be no problem.
 

[Mr.Trueba]

My farm works quite well, however as @Oozinator says, when there are many mobs I get too low the fps, so every certain number of cycles I  kill all the animals that there are and only leave a couple of eggs to start again the growing process.

[Tranoze]

6 minutes ago, Mr.Trueba said:

My farm works quite well, however as @Oozinator says, when there are many mobs I get too low the fps, so every certain number of cycles I  kill all the animals that there are and only leave a couple of eggs to start again the growing process.

Just by the snap of a finger. The world just ask us to double our CPU, double our RAM, but why not just kill half of the critters?

[Scorpio King]

Factorio went though same phase of performance optimization.

Unlike ONI, Factorio have infinite map generation in every direction. And at certain phase of the game UPS (update per second) would go down eventually with huge mega bases and trains running back and forth.

[Mr.Trueba]

16 minutes ago, tranoze said:

Just by the snap of a finger. The world just ask us to double our CPU, double our RAM, but why not just kill half of the critters?

Because besides giving me lag, my base is very large and my 18 duplicates do not have time to do everything, so I have to stop wasting time brushing hairy flying balls. 

 

[he77789]

Why don't just make ONI use multi cores and GPU acceleration?

[Scorpio King]

30 minutes ago, he77789 said:

Why don't just make ONI use multi cores and GPU acceleration?

Multi core integration is not that simple, they would have to redo a lot of code in the game.

You saw any instances where game were made for single core and then patched to multi?

[Coolthulhu]

1 hour ago, Scorpio King said:

Factorio went though same phase of performance optimization.

Factorio devs are among the most meticulous devs out there, spending days on algorithms just to squeeze out that extra bit of performance.

ONI won't get the kind of treatment that Factorio got. Optimizations will probably happen, but not of the magnitude comparable to Factorio. Klei's forte is creativity, not strict and precise design.

22 minutes ago, Scorpio King said:

Multi core integration is not that simple, they would have to redo a lot of code in the game.

The worst thing about parallelism is the non-deterministic bugs. ONI already has enough of those (probably caused by how it handles Unity game objects) - one of those is what this very thread is all about. Multicore could easily make that worse.

Plus, most problems that multicore would fix (pathfinding, job queue) can almost certainly be fixed more properly by designing a clever algorithm to handle them. Say, reducing long stretches of flat land into two pathfinding nodes, keeping jobs in separate kd-trees to avoid sorting them every time, keeping "doable" jobs on separate list from jobs that couldn't be started until their preconditions are fulfilled etc. I bet ONI code is full of opportunities like this.

[Chuckh]

6 hours ago, tranoze said:

Just by the snap of a finger. The world just ask us to double our CPU, double our RAM, but why not just kill half of the critters?

This guy Galaxys.

[Oozinator]

4 hours ago, Coolthulhu said:

Klei's forte is creativity, not strict and precise design.

Well said, but..

[AggresiveWES]

Yup i encountered a similar bug with my stone hatches, around day 900 now and i had 12 stone hatches and 18 eggs for em, suddenly smth happened i did not pay attention at them for a while and was down to 3 all starving even tho they had food, coal is not needed anymore but im totally out of eggs wich i desperately need for producing steel now. I tried a quick drecko farm but even tho they had balm lilys on the floor they also starved to death, so now space is closing in on me from above and i got no way to make steel  #doomed

[Scorpio King]

15 minutes ago, AggresiveWES said:

they had balm lilys on the floor

Drekos only eat from plant itself, they cant eat items on floor.

[Oozinator]

1 minute ago, AggresiveWES said:

Yup i encountered a similar bug with my stone hatches..

I am sure game fails at many points, when that happens to hatches. Critters are more watched, then mixed gas/liquids amounts(deleted) and that's the reason, players are aware of this problem/critters.
Temperatures could fail too, when "lag" starts (my experience, not sure).
I always play on triple speed and could need up to time + 10, but when i hear that players want slower gamespeed then 1+ (o.25) to see those lovely animations, then simulation is not what they are interested in.
ONI is leaving the simulation area for me and i do not like it very much.
Had so much fun with that, while it was a bit more of experimental simulation..
Not sure, but when drip bug was fixed and average temperatures "installed", game went someway "boring/casual" for me.
No new builds, everything old stuff.
Not sure if Klei is aware that they limiting player creativity options.
When Klei uses a lategame solution like "build a spaceship - hop to another asteroid - repeat", i delete ONI..
Map is so small now and to play bigger maps lag free, you need alien hardware..
When pathfinding is tuned by player (lategame), as soon as lag is happening, opt multi routes - one road - less calculation, player get some FPS back.
Opt pathfinding of critters (wild) is not possible. Critters in combination with automation has biggest negative game impact for me.


 

[BlueLance]

57 minutes ago, Scorpio King said:

Drekos only eat from plant itself, they cant eat items on floor.

I think he was stating the fact the plants had grown etc and dropped their flowers, so there is no way that they dreckos "Ran out of food"

[SkyNet_65]

I was wondering since longer why there's no fog of war in ONI. At any case, the game would get a small performance boost by simply disabling all activity outside the FOV of your duplicants and buildings. Meteors wouldn't strike either from the begining.

[Oozinator]

Just now, SkyNet_65 said:

..performance boost by simply disabling all activity outside the FOV of your duplicants and buildings. Meteors wouldn't strike either from the begining.

That would boost chaos in second place. No growing, no temperature exchange, nothing..

[BlueLance]

8 minutes ago, SkyNet_65 said:

I was wondering since longer why there's no fog of war in ONI. At any case, the game would get a small performance boost by simply disabling all activity outside the FOV of your duplicants and buildings. Meteors wouldn't strike either from the begining.

Areas where dupes done need to go (A natural gas geyser) would cease to function then and you would never get gas coming from it.

I get what you mean but most games do it via stasis so that nothing happens until the system activates and then the calculations are done.

[SkyNet_65]

2 minutes ago, BlueLance said:

Areas where dupes done need to go (A natural gas geyser) would cease to function then and you would never get gas coming from it.

I get what you mean but most games do it via stasis so that nothing happens until the system activates and then the calculations are done.

Unless you place a pump or any other building there. Buildings should keep the area around them loaded of course.

[he77789]

What about ruins?

[SkyNet_65]

59 minutes ago, he77789 said:

What about ruins?

Same. I would also keep these disabled outside the field of view, with exception of active buildings consuming/producing something like the thermo nullifier.

There's no real reason to keep invisible and unvisited areas of the world constantly active, unless there are wild plants to harvest. And even then you could make an exception for plants and freeze anything else in this area.

Also keep in mind that biomes are being generated at a constant temperature and they are all insulated with abysalite too. There are no huge temperature changes inside. Unless excavated, disabled temperatures wouldn't have a huge impact, i guess. Again, exceptions could be made here too. But i do know that critters have an huge impact on the game's performance.

[Scorpio King]

9 hours ago, BlueLance said:

I think he was stating the fact the plants had grown etc and dropped their flowers, so there is no way that they dreckos "Ran out of food"

Flowers that drop on floor from the plant can not be consumed by Drekos, otherwise balm lilies would be in critter feeders as an option to feed them.