Moonshade Posted April 4, 2018 Author Share Posted April 4, 2018 huh that number is to small to be of consequence its an in game rounding error Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CantBreathe Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Whether or not the number is of consequence is subjective, and could be the difference between matter state changes or timing errors in automation. Error or not, it's the number the game came up with. What do you want from this conversation? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshade Posted April 4, 2018 Author Share Posted April 4, 2018 hmm im just having fun, such roundings in math means that the number is to small to prove your point. thats the consequence. so if your right you'd need to increase the difference, which should be easy if your right, just make the test longer. if you can get the change to the degree your actually missing something in that isn't in the least significant value of a number with a single count Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CantBreathe Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 You keep saying rounding but you don't really know, because it could be deletion. As far as the game is concerned, it is deletion. That's all that matters. -What is the scope of the larger experiment? 24 tiles, 4800 tiles? -How big do we have to scale the experiment before the number is no longer insignificant? Loss is loss. If you did this test across the whole map, and 100Kg was deleted, would it matter then? You are talking about opinion, perspective, and relative ideas. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshade Posted April 4, 2018 Author Share Posted April 4, 2018 1 minute ago, CantBreathe said: -What is the scope of the larger experiment? 24 tiles, 4800 tiles? scope of your test is good enough. 1 minute ago, CantBreathe said: -How big do we have to scale the experiment before the number is no longer insignificant? 11 minutes ago, Moonshade said: if you can get the change to the degree your actually missing something in that isn't in the least significant value of a number with a single count Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CantBreathe Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, Moonshade said: if you can get the change to the degree your actually missing something in that isn't in the least significant value of a number with a single count ..What? Okay. It was nice speaking with you. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshade Posted April 4, 2018 Author Share Posted April 4, 2018 least significant value is the value that gives the least information in a number, in case of the number 123456798, then number 8 is least significant, a single count in this case would make it 9 or 7 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshade Posted April 4, 2018 Author Share Posted April 4, 2018 10 + 9 + 8.49 = 26.49 =26.5=26 10 + 9 + 8.5 = 26.5 =27 when dealing with the least significant number you can and will get errors in roundings, In any form of science you need to prove your correct or wrong outside the margin of error. I stay with my statement, the prove given is insuffcient to prove his point that the doors delete the gasses to be fair i haven't given any proof I'm correct about the deletion of gas either I'm to lazy for that. but that doesn't mean I can't blow holes in the proof someone gives me.and disagree with that Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabrute Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 doors can and will delete any gas caught within them if the following conditions are met and sometimes even when they aren't A) The top of the door is blocked on 3 sides and the gas is mixed or contains hydrogen B) automation closes the door faster than 1 second C) doors close with no exit for the gas These are known facts not debatable rounding errors, play the game and stop arguing for the sake of show boating please, because ultimately, your in the wrong regardless of your "factual accuracy with regard to rounding" when you don't even know if the system is using any rounding at all so shushhh please Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupineways Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 I have some evidence to suggest rounding is used. I set up a test similar to @CantBreathe's setup and automated the sequential opening an closing of the doors (using the 1 second buffer/1second filter method. I let that run for a good while and on side evened out at 35.5 KG and the other event out at 964.4 which would suggest a loss of .6KG. I then removed all doors and placed 3 new doors at the top of the base in sequence letting gas settle between each one. So we had the same number of open blocks. I had to give it a minute to settle out but it eventually landed at 500KG in each square. Just wanted to throw that out there in case it is helpful in discovery related to gas deletion. It may appear to be deletion but at times it may be rounding as well. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabrute Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 um.... 22 minutes ago, lupineways said: evened out at 35.5 KG and the other event out at 964.4 um thats a 0.1k difference and that is a very real rounding effect but not the actual real values in the room because if you were to view them down to the gram level and add those numbers you would probably still get your 500k avg Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logicsol Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 28 minutes ago, Kabrute said: um.... um thats a 0.1k difference and that is a very real rounding effect but not the actual real values in the room because if you were to view them down to the gram level and add those numbers you would probably still get your 500k avg Still, that doesn't change that OP's design shouldn't normally lead to, and more importantly wasn't meant to cause gas deletion. Can'tbreathe is just being an ass. Moon is right eitherway, any loss that is occurring isn't intended by the design, and is of an inconsequential amount. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CantBreathe Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, Logicsol said: Still, that doesn't change that OP's design shouldn't normally lead to, and more importantly wasn't meant to cause gas deletion. Can'tbreathe is just being an ass. Moon is right eitherway, any loss that is occurring isn't intended by the design, and is of an inconsequential amount. You either can't read or are ignoring context. Again consequence is relative, your feelings are irrelevant. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logicsol Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Just now, CantBreathe said: You either can't read or are ignoring context. Again consequence is relative, your feelings are irrelevant. You uh, sure about that? 10 hours ago, CantBreathe said: Not using drip cooling glitches or using metal doors to compress or destroy materials, that's for sure. 10 hours ago, CantBreathe said: You are using doors to crush gas into oblivion to create vacuums. You haven't really built anything here. That's both an implied accusation, and a direct one. Your intent is obvious. Regardless the important bit is that isn't not meant to delete gas, and if it does, the amount is in the realm of a seconds worth of run time for an NG Gen. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CantBreathe Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, Logicsol said: You uh, sure about that? That's both an implied accusation, and a direct one. Your intent is obvious. Regardless the important bit is that isn't not meant to delete gas, and if it does, the amount is in the realm of a seconds worth of run time for an NG Gen. -Yes, I'm sure about that. -I did make the accusation, after my statement about how I (myself) play the game was perceived accusatory. -Seconds add to minutes to hours, the value and perception of time (and space) are relative to the observer. -I stated many times that I don't care at all how he plays the game, we aren't friends or even acquaintances. Actually I never even stated that the loss wasn't a rounding error, only that there was practical loss and he was ignoring data to prove a point. Honestly no one but us few care, and that is of little consequence. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logicsol Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 hour ago, CantBreathe said: -Yes, I'm sure about that. -I did make the accusation, after my statement about how I (myself) play the game was perceived accusatory. Gee, do you think that might be what people are talking about? You know, since it's the 2nd reply in the topic. Quote -Seconds add to minutes to hours, the value and perception of time (and space) are relative to the observer. It's a 1 cycle loss of NG power every ~600 cycles, there isn't really a time scale where that will be noticeable, especially with the advent of Smart batteries. Quote -I stated many times that I don't care at all how he plays the game, we aren't friends or even acquaintances. Actually I never even stated that the loss wasn't a rounding error, only that there was practical loss and he was ignoring data to prove a point. Honestly no one but us few care, and that is of little consequence. That's not how you come across. @Kabrute fair enough. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CantBreathe Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Logicsol said: It's a 1 cycle loss of NG power Thank you, loss is loss. Next? 4 hours ago, Logicsol said: That's not how you come across. What you perceive is not my problem. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshade Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 well i did a test run since the response on my last comment. here are the files take of it what you want to see value of the gasses just delete the top not when the top right door is closed results were interesting.... have fun start test.sav test 1 C 16.sav test 1 C 137.sav test 1 c 301.sav test 1 C54.sav Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisetwin Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 22 hours ago, Priitm said: Nullifer keeps up just fine ~60C output gas. I like low tech easy to build in survival AND I just happen to have an AETN sitting right above magma in my base, was wondering what the heck, but this looks perfect for that. what are the settings on your automation sensors? thanks for posting. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupineways Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 15 hours ago, Kabrute said: um.... um thats a 0.1k difference and that is a very real rounding effect but not the actual real values in the room because if you were to view them down to the gram level and add those numbers you would probably still get your 500k avg Not to belabor the point but that is .1 rounded for the one tile but overall it is .6. (35.5 x 6 + 964.4 * 6) = 5999.4. Every tile on one side did in fact have 35.5 kg when you hover over, while every tile on the other side had 964.4kg. Maybe I could have been clearer. but that is a total of .6 grams off due to rounding. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priitm Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Denisetwin said: I like low tech easy to build in survival AND I just happen to have an AETN sitting right above magma in my base, was wondering what the heck, but this looks perfect for that. what are the settings on your automation sensors? thanks for posting. just one sensor to close the door if there is more than 5kg oil on the heating plate, so it lets heat pass only if there is something to heat. oil flow is set 240g/s just enough for 4 generators - seems optimal with that volcano. and two "safety" sensors to stop oil flow, one stops flow if there is more than 50 kg oil on the heating plate (stops the system if heat should run out in dormate phase) and second sensor is set to stop oil flow when there is more that 5 kg nat gas pressure. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeW Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Let's keep things on topic and polite please Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BT_20 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 ^^^^ +1 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
catsRjerks Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 19 minutes ago, JoeW said: Let's keep things on topic and polite please YOU'RE NOT MY SUPERVISOR jk Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1023528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Garraty Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 On 04.04.2018 at 7:02 PM, Moonshade said: what have you guys been upto with the volcano's geysers I've been using my copper volcano as liquid tepidizer to heat polluted water for my pincha farm Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/89457-use-of-volcanos/page/2/#findComment-1024847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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