Occupational upgrade -Basic needs and early game goals.

[Ketmol]

Brave New world -Episode 2
some 40+ cycles in the occupational upgrade.
In this video I talk about basic needs, when to explore and other early-game stuff. Starting out simple but hopefully developing into a really advanced self sustaining base with a lot of automation.

 

[Nascarlaser1]

These are great video! Please keep going

[Tobruk]

I know it may sounds silly but your videos, @Ketmol are the only ones that I can watch without being irritated. Let me explain myself

I really don't understand the popularity of doing three-tiles-wide vertical passages, highlighted in orange.

It seems to me everyone is doing that and apparently it makes the air flow easier between different levels. However, from experience, I can say that the effect is minuscule. You can achieve the same results with a couple of airflow tiles sprinkled here and there on each floor and a rudimentary gas pipe system with oxygen.

Next thing is highlighted in red and it's basically either creating walls from doors or leaving the doors open. Again, the reason behind this is allowing more oxygen to pass into the room, but airflow tiles work just as effectively and don't look that ugly. For me, it's just a mild exploit of the game's mechanics. Another justification for that is reducing dupe waiting time, however, this is also a minuscule strain on your base and doesn't affect your efficiency that badly.

I'm very pleased you do not resort to any of those techniques. I may be too fixated on the aesthetic side of base-building in ONI, but at least I found one Youtuber that shares the same approach.

Thanks.

[Hanro50]

1 hour ago, Tobruk said:

I know it may sounds silly but your videos, @Ketmol are the only ones that I can watch without being irritated. Let me explain myself

I really don't understand the popularity of doing three-tiles-wide vertical passages, highlighted in orange.

It seems to me everyone is doing that and apparently it makes the air flow easier between different levels. However, from experience, I can say that the effect is minuscule. You can achieve the same results with a couple of airflow tiles sprinkled here and there on each floor and a rudimentary gas pipe system with oxygen.

Next thing is highlighted in red and it's basically either creating walls from doors or leaving the doors open. Again, the reason behind this is allowing more oxygen to pass into the room, but airflow tiles work just as effectively and don't look that ugly. For me, it's just a mild exploit of the game's mechanics. Another justification for that is reducing dupe waiting time, however, this is also a minuscule strain on your base and doesn't affect your efficiency that badly.

I'm very pleased you do not resort to any of those techniques. I may be too fixated on the aesthetic side of base-building in ONI, but at least I found one Youtuber that shares the same approach.

Thanks.

I normally do the 3 wide thing for one of 3 reasons

1) One it helps with airflow, I'd rather not spam mesh tiles early game

2) Later on I add mesh tiles to it and on those mesh tiles I add statues to help deal with stress in my colony 

3) I normally use those ladder channels to run power cables, pipes and air-ducts and I prefer to see my utility network without an overlay at times  

 

However the 2 door on each other thing doesn't seem useful to me either as the time you dupe could've spent climbing down another 2 or 3 blocks is about the same time it takes them to climb down a 2 block high ledge 

[chemie]

The two air flow doors (left open) are good to create "rooms"

[Tobruk]

3 minutes ago, chemie said:

The two air flow doors (left open) are good to create "rooms"

But why would you build the second door on top of the first one? This just doesn't make sense, except for min-maxing mineral usage if doors cost less to build than tiles or airflow tiles. I still believe though that with a working gas pipe system none of these shenanigans are truly useful.

[Hanro50]

26 minutes ago, Tobruk said:

But why would you build the second door on top of the first one? This just doesn't make sense, except for min-maxing mineral usage if doors cost less to build than tiles or airflow tiles. I still believe though that with a working gas pipe system none of these shenanigans are truly useful.

Unless you stick gas vents in there...which I also use them for

Still I agree about the whole two doors on top of each other thing 

[Lifegrow]

2 hours ago, Tobruk said:

I really don't understand the popularity of doing three-tiles-wide vertical passages, highlighted in orange.

It seems to me everyone is doing that and apparently it makes the air flow easier between different levels. However, from experience, I can say that the effect is minuscule. You can achieve the same results with a couple of airflow tiles sprinkled here and there on each floor and a rudimentary gas pipe system with oxygen.

Next thing is highlighted in red and it's basically either creating walls from doors or leaving the doors open. Again, the reason behind this is allowing more oxygen to pass into the room, but airflow tiles work just as effectively and don't look that ugly. For me, it's just a mild exploit of the game's mechanics. Another justification for that is reducing dupe waiting time, however, this is also a minuscule strain on your base and doesn't affect your efficiency that badly.

Unless you're building all of your floors out of entirely breatheable tiles (which in most bases at least a couple of floors will need to be sealed rooms) leaving adequate space for gasses to flow seamlessly past each other is incredibly important.

If you leave a 1 wide, or even two wide gap - you're forcing your carbon dioxide packets that naturally fall from dupes to try and battle through a very narrow passage, and fight through your oxygen. Making this wider helps massively!

Also, and I speak only for myself here, leaving space either sides of ladders : 

a) makes it easier to replace them with plastic ladders later

b) allows for firepole space when you can spare the resources

c) airflow as mentioned above.

Double stacking pneumatic doors however - I despise... I think it looks derpy  I prefer a couple of good ol' fashioned mesh tiles  

[Arash70]

That 2 door thing is stupid, 3 wide ladders help though.

[Tobruk]

7 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

Unless you're building all of your floors out of entirely breatheable tiles (which in most bases at least a couple of floors will need to be sealed rooms) leaving adequate space for gasses to flow seamlessly past each other is incredibly important.

If you leave a 1 wide, or even two wide gap - you're forcing your carbon dioxide packets that naturally fall from dupes to try and battle through a very narrow passage, and fight through your oxygen. Making this wider helps massively!

Also, and I speak only for myself here, leaving space either sides of ladders : 

a) makes it easier to replace them with plastic ladders later

b) allows for firepole space when you can spare the resources

c) airflow as mentioned above.

4

I've been running my base for over 600 cycles and I haven't noticed any problems with my CO2 fighting its way downwards. And you really don't need floors exclusively out of airflow tiles either, you'd need just a pair of airflows per 6-8 tiles and that works okay.

a) agree, but you can just as well destroy every odd one and replace it with plastic. Then proceed with the even pairs.

b) partially agree - firepoles are not needed in the base, unless you've got a megabase of a size that I haven't imagined could be achieved. Firepoles are much more efficient for loooong vertical passages outside your base to your oil reservoirs or something.

[Lifegrow]

39 minutes ago, Tobruk said:

I've been running my base for over 600 cycles and I haven't noticed any problems with my CO2 fighting its way downwards. And you really don't need floors exclusively out of airflow tiles either, you'd need just a pair of airflows per 6-8 tiles and that works okay.

a) agree, but you can just as well destroy every odd one and replace it with plastic. Then proceed with the even pairs.

b) partially agree - firepoles are not needed in the base, unless you've got a megabase of a size that I haven't imagined could be achieved. Firepoles are much more efficient for loooong vertical passages outside your base to your oil reservoirs or something.

And for those floors where you can't use airflow tiles at all? Let's say you have a fridge room in your base - all sealed and full of gas, or cooled, or whatever - now you're relying on your ladder gap for airflow potentially. It makes a huge difference, but if you don't think so then fine  

I like my CO2 to fall rapidly to where I want it to be, rather than have to fight it's way down for no reason.

a) takes an age to do it how you suggest - the alternative of building a ladder alongside an existing one, then destroying the old one takes a fraction of the time.

b) fire poles boost efficiency hugely, regardless of base size, for a very small metal cost. As soon as you get an excess of iron/gold you should be fitting them.

[chemie]

3 hours ago, Tobruk said:

But why would you build the second door on top of the first one? This just doesn't make sense, except for min-maxing mineral usage if doors cost less to build than tiles or airflow tiles. I still believe though that with a working gas pipe system none of these shenanigans are truly useful.

100 kg for door and 200 kg for tiles but also it is easier since you already have the door selected and drop two vs then having to build air flow tiles.

Plus with them open, it "looks" nicer; like they are not there.  I do not know if flow is better through open door vs air flow tiles, but I know it is not worse.

[Tobruk]

48 minutes ago, chemie said:

100 kg for door and 200 kg for tiles but also it is easier since you already have the door selected and drop two vs then having to build air flow tiles.

Plus with them open, it "looks" nicer; like they are not there.  I do not know if flow is better through open door vs air flow tiles, but I know it is not worse.

It doesn't. You end up with wide slabs of polished mineral. No geometry, no variation. Just these slabs, spanning from one edge of the map to the other.

But then again, it's a personal matter. Just my two cents.

[Roxanne4018]

8 hours ago, Tobruk said:

But why would you build the second door on top of the first one? This just doesn't make sense, except for min-maxing mineral usage if doors cost less to build than tiles or airflow tiles. I still believe though that with a working gas pipe system none of these shenanigans are truly useful.

I don't do it and it may be because of the material cost but pneumatic doors don't require research and special tiles do so you can do it early game.

[Tobruk]

1 hour ago, Roxanne4018 said:

I don't do it and it may be because of the material cost but pneumatic doors don't require research and special tiles do so you can do it early game.

That is a good point. True.

[Ketmol]

Thing is. There are a lot of things you can do to optimize airflow. Optimize cooling, travel-time of duplicants etc etc, But most of it is not needed. Especially if you are a new player and your first goal is survive. This series in the start is directed towards new players. (but wil develop late game to advanced stuff)

Meaning first priority is to keep it simple. You don't need any fancy stuff to survive. It's like those, so popular, how to cool down gayserwater guides. Huge complicated machines built in de-bug. How are those ever going to help new players. If they attempt it out of de-bug they will get fried long before they are halfway done with the machinery.

I haven't posted that video yet. But cooling down a water tank is 80% waste of time. You use water for a few things. Crops, toilets, oxygen, metal refinery etc. Some of those got fixed output temps. It is much better to cool down your base and route hot water straight from gayser to machinery with fixed output temp (that way you get extra heat deletion on top of it) . Even for crops if you don't try to grow sleet wheet grain it is probably more efficient to just cool the base than trying to cool down a gayser.

Same goes for the nullifier. I have seen videos of super complicated setups around it. While it is in reality one of the simplest machines in the game.

I think on of my issues with a lot of the guides out there is that a lot of them make stuff so complicated when it really doesn't need to.

So my major reason for not using all those small tricks is not that much aesthetics but rather that I don't want to over-complicate stuff if there is no real need for it. 

[Lutzkhie]

what do you think about shuffling dupes to different jobs??? early game it seems a good idea
for me its good to keep dupes have certain skills at high levels but then i realized that its not good (will not for all jobs anyway)
certain jobs like farming or electrical engineering are not good for all your dupes to possess the perks to use stations because if they all do have that perks their all rushing for that station making priority system a mess especially that you cant restrict dupes from using stations, remember in the preview build they removed the functionality of stations to be assigned to certain dupes
 

[Kabrute]

I tend to focus blend certain dupes then micro with doors etc, like, i'll have my chef dupe running around as gopher/groundkeeper but because the grill is a 9 and behind a door only they can use thats where they are its a bit more complicated than that but once i hit a certain point I train all dupes as artist, 2-4 dupes as chef (1 if less than 12 dupes total)  I tend to not have anyone as builders but all my diggers and half my gofers have build permission.  I also micro consumables hardcore, dupes are only allowed to eat what is acceptable for base stability (stress wise but also because bristles are hard to get up and running early on).  The way I play though I'm lucky to get through 20 cycles a day sometimes.

[Lutzkhie]

i tried that once training dupes with 0 initial trait on creativity on artistry they created mediocre painting so i tried removing them from joblist but he still do his job as an artist

[Ketmol]

The only thing I really think about jobs for early game is to be restrictive. Don't upgrade duplicants to higher tier jobs before you really have too since as far as I have understood they keep their food and decor demands (not only the proficiency)  when changing line of work. Meaning if you have a high tier miner and switch him/her to a low tier goofer. You will end up having a low tier goofer with high tier decor and food demands.

This is my first playthrough in the occupational upgrade so I might not be 100% correct about all the new stuff but it also seems that some machinery require that they are proficient in several branches meaning that cross training dupes across the same tier might be beneficial in the long term.

[Lutzkhie]

where is your video for the first cycle? i am always curious how most people start the game 

[chemie]

15 hours ago, Tobruk said:

It doesn't. You end up with wide slabs of polished mineral. No geometry, no variation. Just these slabs, spanning from one edge of the map to the other.

But then again, it's a personal matter. Just my two cents.

Some people like "open concept".  Some like chopped up.  Beauty and the beholder and all that

[Parusoid]

22 hours ago, Nascarlaser1 said:

These are great video! Please keep going

I like his collar shirts