The issue with prioritization and jobs

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, goboking said:

And 9 was overused.  Should the rest of us have tools taken away from us because some players don't know how to use them?  We all have to eat Spam because Timmy can't chew a steak?

The rest of us knew how to use them. However since everything started on priority by 5 by default, nobody bothered with anything below 5. And neither do I. I think developers should look beyond a "just because we can" attitude and see if things really are useful.

You can look it differently: do we have to really set up a production line for steak for a select group of people, while the other 95% of the people are content with Spam ?

[goboking]

2 minutes ago, turbonl64 said:

You can look it differently: do we have to really set up a production line for steak for a select group of people, while the other 95% of the people are content with Spam ?

It was already in the game.  I can't imagine it's inclusion in the game had a negative impact on anyone's gaming experience.  If you want to build a shed with just a hammer and a screwdriver, you were able to do so.  I wanted to use the tape measure, the circular saw, the putty knife, and the leveler to ensure precision, but now I can't.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, goboking said:

It was already in the game.  I can't imagine it's inclusion in the game had a negative impact on anyone's gaming experience.  If you want to build a shed with just a hammer and a screwdriver, you were able to do so.  I wanted to use the tape measure, the circular saw, the putty knife, and the leveler to ensure precision, but now I can't.

I personally wouldn't care about if it returns or permanently stays away. I like the priority system with 5 or 9; if the general opinion is "don't care" and 5% wants to change back, then why not.

Although it's funny that the new job system makes the game almost unplayable, we have huge lag, but there are complaints now that "the tape measure, the circular saw, the putty knife, and the leveler to ensure precision" are missing .

[Moggles]

2 hours ago, Kasuha said:

The second point where the new system fails is delivery and support tasks. There's one good delivery job, Gofer/courier. But EVERYTHING needs a delivery. 

Sorry going back a bit.

I think the conveyor system can fill the gaps and reduce the number of amount of delivery tasks. I would go as far as to say the conveyor arms are like the player being given the ability to reach in and say hey, dupe, go do something else productive let the machines handle this mundane delivery job.

I feel that for static tasks this is the best option to work towards and I am starting to see that dupes sort of become isolated and tasks are more compartmentalized if you play this way.

You can have only chefs cook and only allow them access to a room with the cooking equipment. You send the food from the farm directly to the kitchen and there need not be any dupe interaction between the two areas cutting out the need for a gofer.

I have to concede that reaching that level of automation and having a mechatronics engineer is not a quick or easy task. I reckon that job requirement should be an OR rather than an AND between Gofer and Engineer paths.

 

[goboking]

10 minutes ago, turbonl64 said:

I personally wouldn't care about if it returns or permanently stays away. I like the priority system with 5 or 9; if the general opinion is "don't care" and 5% wants to change back, then why not.

Although it's funny that the new job system makes the game almost unplayable, we have huge lag, but there are complaints now that "the tape measure, the circular saw, the putty knife, and the leveler to ensure precision" are missing .

The lag can and will be fixed (also remember that lag is always worse during a preview build).  System changes like this are usually permanent.

[Ichikai]

16 minutes ago, turbonl64 said:

Although it's funny that the new job system makes the game almost unplayable, we have huge lag, but there are complaints now that "the tape measure, the circular saw, the putty knife, and the leveler to ensure precision" are missing .

Those are probably more due to the fact you're playing an unstable preview build, there's almost no reason the job system would suddenly break pipe outputs, give everything max temp of 400c+, break emptied/deconstructed buildings no longer outputting liquid in bottles etc.

Just saying they shouldn't state the reason for changing the priority ranks was due to people not using them, or overusing some. When the obvious reason was to implement the strict priority system in an attempt to overcome obvious issues with the occupational system.

I used 2-8 in my base. 9 for life or death situations. 1 for empty this storage right now. Majority of things were at 5.
I can probably make 1-5 work too. 

8 minutes ago, Moggles said:

Sorry going back a bit.

I think the conveyor system can fill the gaps and reduce the number of amount of delivery tasks. I would go as far as to say the conveyor arms are like the player being given the ability to reach in and say hey, dupe, go do something else productive let the machines handle this mundane delivery job.

....

I have to concede that reaching that level of automation and having a mechatronics engineer is not a quick or easy task. I reckon that job requirement should be an OR rather than an AND between Gofer and Engineer paths.

Feels more like a feature getting sacrificed to give meaning to the occupation system rather than complementing it. Really don't see the need for the additional figurative wall for what is essentially pipes for solids.

[goboking]

Here's an example of the kind of control the old system allowed us.  I have a "technician", a dupe responsible for the daily upkeep of the colony.  The priorities for his work looked like this:

• 9 - only used in emergencies; and I mean actual emergencies...if everything is priority 9 then nothing is priority 9
• 8 - massage table and med cot; not that this comes into play often, but a happy and healthy dupe is a productive dupe
• 7 - oxygen and water maintenance - these are vital systems, so staying on top of algae and filtration medium deliveries and cleaning outhouses and wash basins is important
• 5 - mopping - this isn't critical, so there's no need to have it any higher
• 3 - pollutants - storage compactors that accept polluted dirt, rot piles, slime, and bleach stone are automatically stored in a room where the off-gassed chlorine kills the germs and a deodorizer purifies the off-gassed polluted oxygen
• 2 - everything else - every material gets its own storage compactor and is stored only when I give the sweep command
• 1 - garbage disposal - once storage containers are full excess material is put into compactors in a hatch pen where it's consumed and turned into coal by the hatches

Other dupes can deliver, but the priority settings on their own building coupled with door permissions means they deliver only what they need (dirt and water for a researcher, coal and balm lilies for a physician, fertilizer and phosphorite for a farmer, etc) and never step on my technician's toes, nor he theirs.  That's a finely tuned, highly efficient system.  There is minimal input required from me and everything that needs to get done gets done.  I can't say that the new system allows that kind of flexibility or player control.

[Kasuha]

17 minutes ago, Moggles said:

I think the conveyor system can fill the gaps and reduce the number of amount of delivery tasks.

Conveyor system is a great feature but even when it becomes available in mid-late game, it's not very convenient to cover all situations where a machine needs some delivery. And the deliveries need to be handled especially in the early game where research and building is in full swing but conveyor belts are not available yet.

As is, conveyor belts only help with the job-related deliveries in late game, while a solution to all manual delivery problems throughout the game certainly doesn't invalidate need for conveyor belts.

[Kabrute]

6 hours ago, turbonl64 said:

The rest of us knew how to use them. However since everything started on priority by 5 by default, nobody bothered with anything below 5. And neither do I. I think developers should look beyond a "just because we can" attitude and see if things really are useful.

You can look it differently: do we have to really set up a production line for steak for a select group of people, while the other 95% of the people are content with Spam ?

Um I had set all of my outhouses to 1, all of my storage compactors to 2, and it keeps going from there.  I used to use all 9 of the available priority settings to keep my dupes from ever being idle.  oh you think theres nothing left? go sweep

[Guest]

My opinion is that all of that can be handled perfectly fine with 5 priority levels; I never had, before this update, any idle dupe. Even after 300 cycles, there's always something to do, even with 40+ dupes. Emphasis on mine opinion, of course. And I can understand that some people love to micromanage on 9 different levels instead of 5. Though I'm also sure this change is not going to matter a lot for them either :P.

Here's an idea: why don't the developers allow a menu setting to increase the amount of priority levels? So that each player can decide what he or she wants or needs. I think that's finely catered to each individual need.

And oh, fix the actual job system, because currently it really doesn't matter how many priority levels we have.

[Breizhbugs]

In the old system the priority of jobs were fixed by the developper: combat > ...>power>...deliver > build > dig.

What would have been sufficient for me is that you can change the job priority per dupe

For example if we want A dupe to be mainly a miner  we would have change this dupe priority list to ; dig > build > ...

 

In this system, if developpers want to add perks for jobs, they could give a bonus to only the first job in the priority list of each dupe!

 

What i think should be correcteed too is that  diggers dont dig where building is planned: they have to wait that the builder comme to dig AND build the machine. But the Builder have to wait for the deliver guy to bring materials for the building. This makes the digger dupe cant dig the room further more because he is blocked by blocks non-diggers have to dig! So please make the Build job not dig the planned building area: this is a diggers job! (edit: also what happens if you plan a building onto abyssalite tile, builders cant dig that! - i didnt try for now)

[Mangrove]

35 minutes ago, Breizhbugs said:

In the old system the priority of jobs were fixed by the developper: combat > ...>power>...deliver > build > dig.

What would have been sufficient for me is that you can change the job priority per dupe

For example if we want A dupe to be mainly a miner  we would have change this dupe priority list to ; dig > build > ...

I really like this priority per dupe idea. I always wanted to be able to put sweeping after digging (why clean up before you're done digging?) If per-dupe would be too messy, colony-wide rearrangement of the jobs could be a bit more intuitive and would work well with the current job priority menu. Oh and give the same treatment to the food priority while we're at it.

[Vim Razz]

I despise the 1-5 priority range limit more and more with each passing day, and the arguments presented for it are completely obnoxious.  Why should it be my problem that "most players" could never be bothered to make effective use of those in-game tools?

With the completely arbitrary limit of 3 dupes per job tier and removal of independent skill development, that lack of granularity in control priorities is absolutely galling.  Since every dupe is now effectively slower at everything than they were before, the value of efficient priority management is more significant than ever, and yet we get less options to try and make the best of the limits imposed by the new framework. 

bleh.

[Grimgaw]

Key binds still work the old way: 1-9, so why exactly when I feel lazy I need to click twice to set priority?

This new double layer system (with hidden layer of job priority) is a massive step back from old system in terms of simplicity. 

[Saturnus]

I completely agree with most peoples sentiments.

The old priority system worked better. All it needed was a precision in what exactly the priorities meant.

For example, you could divide tasks into 3 groups. Each group would have 3 priority settings.

Priority 7-9 : first available dupe that can do the task does it no matter what their job and interests are.

Priority 4-6 : first available dupe whose job it is to do these tasks does it regardless of interests.

Priority 1-3 : first available dupe who has an interest in doing the task does it regards of job (also means there are no higher priority job to do for them)

Priority 0 : project planning priority. It ear marks the materials to be used for the job and let's you paint up a complicated build for later release in manageable sections. 

[uraharakisuke]

1 hour ago, Saturnus said:

Priority 0 : project planning priority. It ear marks the materials to be used for the job and let's you paint up a complicated build for later release in manageable sections. 

Priority 0 should absolutely be a thing! 

[Cpt. KatKit]

I think the problem with current priority is diggers, builders and couriers stepping on each other's toe if you even dare to place a building in a location that isn't dug yet,.

The sweeping nightmares are the other problem. is there a way to stop say the cheffrom sweeping anything but cooking supplies in the current system? Because without it the colony goes crazy with slow people running off their jobs to collect rocks and deliver them to builders the moment their buildings lack supplies and the supply department is too small.